Odd Duck

Rescued Jack Dempsey pair. Temp at the lowest end of their preferred range to try to shut down any breeding. I ended up with FAR too many fry.

@Duke Silver I don’t think you need a full week. I think a couple days would be enough clearance time after stopping the metronidazole as long as you do the water changes. He already looks a bit better! Less skinny. I can’t tell if he’s straighter from that angle.

@Alec I have one in a 2.1 G cube right now, but I haven’t had it in there long enough to give you a really good assessment. I also have a tiny HOB on there (no such thing as too much filtration (too much flow, yes, filtration, no). This tank just got set up on June 10th. It is not having any algae to speak of with an Aqueon light (not the planted tank light for this tiny tank) and the plants seem to settling well. It’s only got red ramshorn snails for livestock so far, until the plants have fully established, then it will get some dwarf shrimp.

@KentFishFanUK After the experience and difficulties I’ve had trying to incorporate this geriatric singleton male I rescued into a shoal, I would not deliberately keep a singleton. His behavior is not particularly appropriate for the species from what I’ve read. He killed 2 females (another very sickly one died before I learned about deworming). They were all in a 10 gallon that was heavily planted, had a tall rock and tall plants to break line of sight plus smaller rocks with gaps between that were good hiding areas (shielded from both sides but open passages to escape. They were fed abundantly on: assorted species of snails (mostly love), frozen bloodworms (like to love per individual fish), frozen brine shrimp (neutral), frozen (unimpressed by them), freeze dried (ignored after one taste), and live Daphnia (adored), preserved baby brine shrimp (they were unimpressed), live microworms (which they mostly ignored), scuds/amphipods (like), and now they get blackworms, whiteworms (all love both), and I’ve even tried live wingless fruit flies (seemed like they didn’t quite know what to think, a couple tried them, didn’t seem too exciting to anybody). Haven’t tried Grindal worms yet, but would like to get a culture started, just haven’t gotten around to it yet. I still have the singleton male in a 10 gallon quarantine while I build a shoal. I bought 9 tank-raised juveniles, 7 turned out to be male so 6 went back to my lfs. I now have 11 juvies now fully dewormed and done with quarantine. They are hanging out, growing, depleting my live blackworm supply, until they can be reliably sexed. I’m hoping to get at least 4 females. I’ll trade the rest back to my lfs (I have a really good lfs). I had to make a fish trap to get the 6 males back out of the tank. I still have a single male and 2 females in the 20G long tank. My goal is to put the 4 females and the singleton male into the 20G long all at once after I do some plant changes (I have a bunch of Java ferns and large Anubias on rocks/wood that I’ll add for additional breaks in line of sight). I figure this will give my geriatric singleton his best shot at responding to a better social structure and maybe learning how to behave himself around others. He can currently see the juvies from his tank. The trio of 2 females and one male that are still in the 20G long are not really what I would consider a happy trio. They aren’t even behaving like a pair and a single female. There’s more chasing going on than I’d like to see and the chasing is sometimes a bit too intense. Nobody’s gotten hurt, but there’s nothing really I could call normal shoaling behavior. I added a small shoal of ember tetras as dither fish since I was reading so much about how some puffer groups were doing fine in community tanks. I was thinking the embers could be a shoal and act as dithers, and the puffers could be a shoal. Nope. Everybody hides. Very boring tank, really, but I’m not ready to give up on having a well-adjusted shoal. I haven’t yet decided if I’m going to trap the ember tetras out before I add the “new” puffers and the geriatric male, or try leaving them in as dither fish to make a more “natural” type of situation. I’m leaning towards trapping them out since it would be pushing a little on the boundaries of bioload since the puffers appear to cause around 3 times the bioload typical of other fish their size. The tank is very heavily planted with barely any substrate showing, a variety of good sized swords that are now slightly taller than the tank, plenty of well grown Crypts, moss clumps, driftwood, overfiltered with a 20 gallon HOB, and a 20-40 sponge filter, and gets 50-60% water changes weekly, and still has way too much algae (over feeders anonymous member, here 👋🏻) although it’s getting much better. If the group doesn’t work in the 20G long, I have a 29 gallon I may try. I’ll transfer the whole lot of them so it will be 100% new territory for all. I also have a well established 6G cube that I can use for the geriatric male if I must, but I really want to give him another chance to be a member of a healthy shoal. So, probably way too much puffer psychology there, but I don’t recommend a small group. I’ve been there, done that, and 3 have died because of it. I thought at first it was my asocial singleton, but the juvies that grew up together don’t really seem that happy either. I’m hoping that settles with the larger group. Goal is 2 males, 6 females, shoal when they want, wander when they want, etc. We’ll see what happens. I’m just starting to see indications of sex in the juvies, but they don’t yet hold that color long enough for me to net them. I’m hoping in the next couple weeks I’ll be putting girls and an old man into the 20G long. It may get far too interesting. 🧐 🤔 I’ll be watching closely and getting the 29 ready, just in case. The 6G has been ready for months since I knew I might have to use it for the singleton male. Wish me luck!

@Patrick_G It’s very handy for my tiny cube. I just set it up about 2 weeks ago and moved this to it from my older 6G cube. The inside magnet is only about 1” square and a little over 1/8” thick. Edit to add I checked dates and it’s been set up 4 weeks. Time flies when you’re old, lol!

I have this algae scraper in my 2.1 gallon cube. This one came with my used 6G cube, but I like the MagFloat Nano for that size. Just ordered another Nano MagFloat for the new 6G cube. This little thing has a very small magnet that fits almost anywhere. The only problem with it is the inside magnet is curling a little bit. I just saw on Amazon that you can get a replacement inside magnet. This doesn’t float like the MagFloats do if the inside separates from the glass. It may, or may not, fall close enough to the glass to retrieve without reaching in with something. If it falls face down you have to clean the surface before you start to use it again.

Pardon, but what do you mean by ADF?

They are considered a shoaling (not schooling) species, and appear to be happier in a group of 6 or more. Those with the most experience believe they have more behavioral issues showing more signs of stress when kept singly or in smaller groups. They show more fin nipping of other fish and hide more often when single or in smaller groups. My experience matches this after rescuing a singleton, trying to find enough to develop a proper shoal with appropriate male to female ratios, etc. Most experts are recommending 6 or more with a minimum tank size of 10 gallons, but bigger is better. Also should be in heavily planted tanks, with plants and/or hardscape to break up sight lines. They are obligate carnivores and sloppy about it so they need large, regular water changes with removal of food debris. They need a wide variety of meat based foods and only very rarely will learn to take flakes or even dried/dehydrated food. Some may not even take frozen foods. Typically it’s encouraged they be in a species only tank, but some have success with a small shoal in a *large* tank with multiple other species. Usually 6-8 pea puffers (Carinotetraodon travancoricus - Malabar puffers) in 55 gallons or more with a typical assortment of other community fish. Tank mates should all be fast moving, wary fish like danios, tetras, etc. Not so large they would eat the puffers, not so small or slow they would get picked on by the puffers - no Bettas or guppies, for instance. They will often tolerate otocinclus, kuhli loaches, or other bottom dwellers. They are starting to become more available as tank raised, but most are still wild caught and often arrive infested with intestinal parasites. Experts recommend they be treated weekly for 4 weeks with levamisole while in quarantine.

Yes, on the levamisole dose at 2 mg per liter of water. And levamisole is my first go to, but praziquantal is a perfectly adequate dewormer. They just treat different types of intestinal parasites.

His left eye appears to be protruding more than the right. He appears to be developing popeye. I would continue the short salt baths and get the Kanaplex.

This fairly likely may have started with fin nipping from the pea puffer. They are not particularly well-behaved fish and typically not recommended for a community tank. That being said, this looks likely be a secondary bacterial infection. Any chance you have access to a microscope? It would be immensely helpful to wipe a tiny bit of this material off and look at it under the microscope even if you don’t have any stains available. I can’t find the ingredients for the medication you’ve shown, so have no idea what it might be or if it might work. What color is the the medication? Did it change the color of the water in the tank? I would continue to look for Maracyn if you can. If you have access to a povidone iodine solution you could use a cotton-tipped swab and paint it directly on the skin lesions. Edit to ask: Please post your water parameters. Most fish won’t get bacterial infections from a single nip. I’m concerned your fish may have an underlying issue like immune suppression from imperfect water conditions.

Timing is everything when trying to eliminate parasites. You have to hit the parasites at the right point in *their* life cycle in order for it to be effective. Since you are seeing symptoms, weekly dosing with levamisole at 2 mg per liter for at least 3 treatments, then another dose 2 weeks later would be my first recommendation. You should do a large water change (at least 50%) beforehand, removing as much detritus as possible, dose after turning off the lights, and do as complete a blackout as possible since levamisole is light sensitive (I usually just dose after lights out). Then do a large water change again 24 hours after dosing, again removing as much detritus as possible. I would then treat with praziquantal (PraziPro is easy to find in the USA) at the label dose. Leave that in for a week. Then do your large water change, repeat your levamisole, etc, as above. I would do 2 doses, 2 weeks apart on the praziquantal. So day 1 - levamisole, day 2 - praziquantal, day 7 - levamisole, day 14 - levamisole, day 15 - praziquantal, day 21 - levamisole, day 35 - levamisole. With your water changes between as described for the levamisole (which will usually be more than average water changes). This will eliminate the majority of intestinal parasites that fish commonly get. If your fish are still having issues after dosing like this, then the sickest one should see a veterinarian that is comfortable with treating fish. Many fish vets will do housecalls, but it’s time consuming (usually takes as much time as seeing 4-8 patients in the clinic depending on how far they have to drive to see you) so it won’t be cheap. Good luck!

Stress Coat and Prime are both sulfur containing compounds (sulfur compounds are what causes the rotten egg smell). But there usually is only minimal sulfur odor from Stress Coat (often more from Prime). If it’s a very strong odor, I’d probably have a pass on using it. If it’s mild, that’s pretty normal.

Any significant amounts of ammonia could burn gills and make them gasp for breath. I would probably leave on the airstone until your tank is settled, then see how they do once there’s no ammonia/nitrite/nitrate issues. They should be fine after that’s resolved.

A couple inches? I’ve never seen them get over a couple millimeters!

I have done praziquantal between doses of levamisole, but I agree with you, I would not do all at once. The praziquantal is a significantly different drug than levamisole but Metroplex is metronidazole, which is in the same family of drugs as levamisole. There isn’t a huge risk doing levamisole with metronidazole, together, but adding a third medication is probably not ideal. I would typically start deworming with levamisole, and depending on how the fish responds, the species, if I was actually seeing worms and what type, etc, I would dose praziquantal a few days to a week after doing the first dose of levamisole. Then water change, and repeat levamisole. Metronidazole does not do much for worms, but there are other intestinal parasites it treats. Levamisole will treat those same intestinal parasites just as well. What the metronidazole does do is also work as an antibiotic against some of the bad bacteria that can cause symptoms. It works very well for many mammals, but isn’t really that good at it for fish, though. It is one of the last medications I would reach for if I was treating a patient. If I were seeing this fish as a patient, I would do rather see you stop the metronidazole, wait 24 hours, then treat with the levamisole since it has a significantly broader spectrum against intestinal parasites than metronidazole. I can’t legally give you advice as a vet, though, but you can take this information, that could be found in many places on line, and make your own decisions. 😉

A little peroxide treatment can do wonders for clearing staghorn. I usually do 3 mls/gallon. Turn off all filters, and I use a syringe and tubing to dose the 3% peroxide directly over the affected area. Let sit for 5-10 minutes, then restart filters. It will take a day or so, then you’ll see the algae change colors to red or sometimes just gray. Then usually any snails or shrimp (and some fish) will eat it or it will just fade away. May take a couple treatments to clear it completely. I had some stag horn algae on the pinto that I posted. 2 treatments (and better water parameters) cleared it completely.

They tolerate higher light but since they are slow growing, higher light can trigger some algae growth. If you’re not having algae issues, you may be just fine. If you’re having *any* algae issues, higher light on a Buce (or on any slow grower) isn’t the best idea.

I would recommend trying some levamisole. Prazipro is praziquantel for tapes and flukes, but apparently these guys often have other types of worms that the levamisole should get. Don’t forget to do repeats on each type of dewormer 2 weeks after the first doses of each. Levamisole can hit some snails, so be careful. Nerites are apparently particularly vulnerable. Also maybe try some live foods that are less challenging to jump start the appetite - blackworms, white worms, or Daphnia? Once he’s eating, then worry about the teeth. Make sure the snails are small enough to start, he’ll learn to deal with bigger ones later.

I know you posted your parameters are all normal, but are you testing ammonia, too? Persistent bubbles make me think of excess proteins in the water (nitrogenous wastes). If you have ongoing ammonia release, your filter/plants may be converting it quickly enough to cause minimal spikes, but it may be just enough to cause the foam (thinking the air is acting like a protein skimmer does). There are also potentially other proteins that may not light up your tests but could cause, or at least add to, the foaming. Obviously there are 2 approaches. Leave it be as much as possible or do more frequent, larger water changes. Seems like there are proteins that need removed, so I would tend to do more water changes. Don’t give up yet. Seems like you should be on the downhill side. Hang in there another couple weeks and see what things do.

Get back to me in a month after weekly duckweed removal and declare again. I swear I’ve gotten it all every week, then up it pops. I topped off tanks last week instead of water changing and this week my 46 G bow had about 5 times as much duckweed. It’s still only a little bit, but aggravating none the less. As for what I accomplished today besides swearing at duckweed: Water changes in 16 of 19 tanks, the rest will happen tomorrow along with some impeller replacement that’s overdue. Set up a new 10 gallon in my bank of tanks, planted it with the Echinodorus vesuvius that wasn’t impressing me in the 100 G tank - it just wasn’t getting tall enough where it was, but it was happy enough to be sending runners all over the place. Put 1 in my new 2 G, it should be tall enough in there and a nice scale for this tiny tank. Anybody need some E. vesuvius? I’ve got plenty, now. Moved a trio of ‘not actually’ Crypt. wendtii ‘Green Gecko’ that appear to be an Aponogeton, probably ulvaceus, to where the E. vesuvius and an Echinodorus cordifolius ‘Marble Queen’ were located in the 100G. Moved the ‘Marble Queen’ to a 10 G because it wasn’t impressing me with its size, either. Reglued an Anubias hastifolia down to its rock. Why this one, out of 5 I glued to lava rocks over 4 weeks ago, has decided it wanted to come loose, I don’t know. But it’s stuck again after more swearing while scooping out duckweed. Replanted the silly Lagenandra meeboldii ‘Red’ that the snails keep dislodging because they’re only a couple weeks out of their tissue cup. Added another layer of sand to the 10 G where the ‘Marble Queen’ was planted after discovering how shallow my substrate was while trying to bury the mass of roots from what was a fairly well established sword. 🤦🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️ Added more sand and filled in on top of where I pulled out the Aponogeton (not Crypt. ‘Green Gecko’). The *actual* Green Geckos should fill in nicely. And finally, pulled all of the Amazon frogbit and as much Wolffia as possible out of 3 of my 10G tanks. I *thought* duckweed was bad. It ain’t got NOTHIN’ on Wolffia! I can’t even guess at when I got the Wolffia but I first noticed it at least 4 weeks after I put some juvenile pea puffers into a 10 G quarantine/grow out tank. Then it appeared in another quarantine tank, then in a shrimp tank. Still confined to only the bank of tanks so far. This may end up in a burn it with fire 🔥 🔥 🔥 situation. We shall see. I have learned that Wolffia doesn’t float as well as duckweed. It will sink down and swirl around, taunting you, as you try to sweep it up with the net. This might get interesting and will likely have some swearing happen during the process. If I can clear it all within a month, I’ll be beside myself with happiness. 🙄 I am very open to suggestions for what might eat the Wolffia that would be compatible in a neo shrimp breeding tank.

The long-fins are slightly less active, or maybe just slightly slower moving, than the short-finned version, but will still usually be a pretty active fish given the room to swim. That being said, they are nowhere near as visually hectic to watch as giant danios since they are small enough they are less ‘in your face’ active. They aren’t a ‘gently sweep across the tank in a beautiful school’ kind of fish. They would probably be classed more as shoaling than schooling, but they do tend to stick towards the top of the water column. They absolutely will separate and fiddle around some at all levels, some individuals more so than others. But they will be up in the top 1/3 or top 5-6”, depending on the size of your tank, around 80% of the time, probably. They will catch your eye with their activity, but won’t tend to dominate the tank unless they are the majority of the fish present since their colors are on the quieter side. They do come across as lively, ‘cheerful’ fish, and tend to brighten up the space like a cheerleader. If you’re not keen on cheerleader type personality, maybe go for something a bit less active.

That popped up under “powerhead prefilter”. The metal one under “prefilter screen”, if I remember right.

@DShelton Howdy!

I’ve used it on a couple kinds of moss - Fissidens nobilis and Christmas moss. No apparent damage to the moss.