KentFishFanUK

Yeah I won't rush out get one straight away or anything, just not sure whether I should try again full stop, don't want to kill another one but would like to keep one, so sort of conflicted

I would love that! I could get even less work done if I could check on my fish from work haha

So could I risk getting another? It was my favourite fish. Obviously will check parameters first.

The dark blob wasn't there yesterday anyway 😢

Nothing useful to add here but just wanted to say, great idea! Thanks for starting it

Third pic is what looks like internal bleeding I think. 🙁

Well I think that's what it is but I'm a newbie so not really sure. Is it ok/helpful to post pics or is it too sad/morbid?

I found my lovely little hillstream loach who I was discussing on the forum just yesterday dead today and I don't know why. There are no obvious signs of injury or infection externally and didn't look like it had a sunken belly or anything. I can see what looks like internal bleeding inside him but doesn't that happen after death? If not what could have caused it? He has also lost a lot of colour and looked washed out but again that happens when a fish dies anyway right? I can post pics if anyone thinks it might help. He seemed fine just yesterday, munching on algae and repashy soilent green and quite active etc. Unfortunately I won't be able to check parameters until tomorrow morning but all other fishes seem fine. Temperature has been about 76-78F since he went in 10 days ago which is a little warm but I didn't think overly so. I know they like lots of oxygen but I have two air stones plus an internal power filter with its outflow above the water line so thought that would be enough? I did do some maintenance with around 20% water change recently but that must have been a good 48 hours before time of death. He/she was the only hillstream loach in the tank so I have no idea if I should get a new one, obviously I want to but not if it's just likely to die as well. I've had a couple fish deaths before but they were one out of a group of the same fish and as the others were fine I decided it was ok to replace them but as it was the only one I'm not so sure. What would you guys do?

A programmable heater, or maybe even a programmable heater/lighting/powerhead and whatever else combo that you can set to change with the seasons and/or simulate weather inside the tank. Probably useless really but sounds fun to me, if you really went deep into setting up a biotope you could programme it to have the exact seasonal weather conditions of that particular wild biotope.

Lol yep same here, as soon as she pops out for a while it's "quick make up a batch of repashy with kitchen utensils while I can" or whatever haha

Yep my one has red and blue on it!

Thanks! That was my thought too based on googling pictures but didn't realise there were so many types and apparently my fish guy's wholesaler just sends them to him as unspecified hillstream loaches and he gets a mix. If it helps when he/she (are they easy to sex?) Fans his tail fin it's almost a blue colour in the middle with red on the top and bottom. He also has some red on his dorsal fin. I was originally disappointed as most of his colouration isn't as bright as I was expecting with a sewellia lineolata but now I think he/she is gorgeous and really fun to watch so I'm glad I got the wrong one haha. Apparently they are a bit smaller too which is probably a good thing.

Can anyone identify my hillstream loach? Was sold to me as a sewellia lineolata but pretty sure it's not. I was thinking maybe gastromyzon ocellatus? Not sure though, any help would be appreciated! Hope everyone's having a nice day!

Well volunteered let us know what you determine 😉 haha. To be honest I'm surprised those studies haven't been done in a university or something, it must have implications further than just the hobby right? Unless I'm missing something obvious, I'm not very scientifically literate.

Yeah when I 'clean' my filter I just shake out the sludge from the foam so the water flow goes back to normal, I don't touch the seachem matrix or biohome filter medias in there at all. I'm hoping that a good chunk of the nitrifying bacteria is in the media and not the sponge, so if/when I change the filter or even upgrade tank etc I can just move the bag of media to the new filter and it's ready.

In a sense do 'what works for you" is the most accurate answer anyone can really give right? Even if its not so specific haha

Good point! I have only been doing small infrequent water changes due to the high nitrates in my tap water, but I have been cleaning out my filter sponge. In fact the amount of tank water I use to squeeze out the sponge is the amount I replace and don't really do any water changes on top of that. Though to be fair I've only been doing even that like once every two weeks (maybe less 😅) so maybe that's not enough whichever way you look at it! Parameters I can test for with the API master test kit are fine though (better in fact). That reminds me I really need to get a GH/KH test kit too.

Not sure if you were replying to me but to clarify I didn't mean water changes would remove some of the beneficial bacteria as in nitrifying bacteria but other beneficial bacterias, or simply non harmful ones that establish and thus help keep out harmful ones (which I guess would make them beneficial too but not in the way we normally mean it). But yes I'm not sure I've ever heard where the whole >40 ppm nitrates bad, <40 ppm nitrates good thing ever came from.

1. Fair enough! I had assumed the muddy water would also increase the dissolved organics and pollutants from the particles that have been stirred up or from run off etc but only because it makes sense to me not because I've read any studies or anything! 2. There is a lot of farmland in my part of the country so thats probably why the nitrates are so high. Also interesting hypothesis! I'd love to know if you are right there, would be pertinent info for the whole hobby to know. My assumption would have been that tank generated nitrates are, if anything, less harmful than those from source water being that it's how it would occur in a natural environment as part of a natural cycle without agriculture etc interfering, but again that's not very scientific of me just what seems to make sense in my brain. 3. True it wouldn't remove all water born bacteria (or yeasts or other microorganisms) but my hypothesis is that it could remove enough that it potentially allows non favourable ones the chance to establish in their place. I'd love to know the statistics of say, the occurrence of ich in very regular large water changed tanks compared to walstad method tanks (so opposite ends of the spectrum). Anyone know of any such studies? After all many of the pollutants we think about can be removed from tanks in other ways not just water changes - trimming plants, squeezing out sponge filters, removing algae, removing snails and probably other ways that I can't think of right now. But yes either way you can't argue with 50 years experience! Was just pointing out the fact that I don't think people's successes with few or even zero water changes can be so easily dismissed. Of course they might not be enough to go as far as recommending zero water changes, especially to a beginner but worth consideration in the hobby nonetheless (maybe even worth writing books about 😂) Thanks for replying to my long winded posts! I don't get out much... haha

Love Irene! Her videos are so watchable I think I've watched them all by now lol

I think I am going to have to play devils advocate here as I'm not sure I entirely agree with all your points. With all due respect of course, you are far more experienced than myself! First you mention about water in the wild being constantly renewed. Aren't some bodies of water simply topped up but otherwise not really flowing as such? Besides, in many environments these rain water etc 'renewals' actually hugely increase water turbidity and presumably mean a lower water quality in some respects, temporarily at least. I would also guess that these renewals actually excite fish with the prospect of more food arriving with it and that is possibly why we see increased activity etc. Secondly what even is 'fresh' water? Most of us will be using municipal water which we simply don't know the exact chemical make up of. My tap water, for example, comes out around 40-50 ppm of nitrates (50 being the legal UK limit apparently) yet my planted tank always reads around 20-30 ppm so in that regard is actually cleaner. I get that that's only one of the half dozen or so parameters we test for the bazillion others we don't test but still I'm sure the same could possibly be said for heavy metals or bacteria and who knows what else too. I know we could use RO water and add in the minerals etc we need but even then do we really know nothing beneficial at all is missing? Or nothing harmful has made its way in? Kind of leads to my next point - You say there's no such thing as too much fresh water, too many water changes etc but couldn't it be argued that sometimes a build up of 'stuff' could help fish build strength or higher tolerances to such fluctuations in parameters? Or when breeding help the gene pool stay 'hardier?' As per natural selection and all that. I mean humans like oxygen and dislike virus' and pollutants but I'm pretty sure I can be confident in saying raising human babies in a bubble only ever breathing purified air would not be conducive to building the individuals immune system or the populations hardiness. My last thought which might be less relevant (or more stupid but I'm enjoying my uneducated musings on the subject so bare with me) - many of our traditional food preservation methods boil down to allowing a strong colony of harmless bacteria to thrive on the food and as such out compete harmful bacteria so as to keep the food safe for us to eat. In a thriving and balanced ecosystem this could potentially be playing a role in a similar way (similar to a balanced tank having less algae issues) but by messing with it could lead to an imbalance allowing a harmful bacteria to multiply and threaten a fish with sickness of some sort. I think your method is surely the 'safe bet' answer, as with so many variables to consider it is impossible to factor everything in to come to the perfect conclusion, and it is the tried and tested method and general wisdom/consensus answer to the question after all. However I don't think it is nearly as black and white as you imply. Does their happen to be any freshwater biologists or hydrologists or microbiologists around to explain why everything I just typed is nonsense? 😅

Haha good point! Erm yeah *raises voice for the benefit of any government employee listening* of course absolutely none of my favourite fish would ever survive the UK winters what ever was I thinking 😅 Actually I think I'm pretty lucky and as far as I know it's pretty much always going to be legal to keep any fish in indoor aquariums here, with slightly more restrictions on outdoor ponds or importing certain species, which is fair enough really. Still wonder is some commonly kept fish could acclimate to winter temperatures for short periods. Like has anyone actually tried keeping Corydoras in an outdoor tub all winter? Someone must have tried it with Guppies surely?

Interesting that you've experienced that, a quick Google search and the guides mention temps much higher than that. I remember Cory mentioning an anecdote about another tropical fish (which one escapes me but I think it was a cichlid) that survived being iced over and I've heard plenty of people talk about white clouds and danios and rice fish etc in very cold water. Makes me wonder if actually many more species than most of us realise might be able to survive those temperatures at least for short periods of time and we only don't know because we don't try (for obvious reasons). Edit: oops Cory already brought it up on this very topic (though I heard him mention it in a video too) and it was firemouth cichlids

Don't want to be a party pooper obviously as it sounds like a fun system to try out but - is it like at all necessary? Why not just use the 5 gallon as a temporary breeding tank for your apisto pair or as a fry grow out tank to move eggs too? I'm pretty sure lots of people use small tanks for just that purpose and as long as you're testing etc as usual I don't think the water parameters are going to be all that unstable? Maybe I'm missing something here! I guess it would save you running an extra filter and heater but still. That being said, don't let me stop you as I like the idea of having a freshwater sump myself! If I had the space for it, though mine would be probably just for filtration. Maybe a live food refugium or something as well. Come to think of it a refugium is basically what you are describing and lots of marine people have those in their sumps so I probably am missing something here!

Brilliant information and useful feeding trials! Thank you for posting it will definitely save it for future reference. Kind of feel your experiments and write ups deserve their own topic - and maybe we should put you to work trialling more stuff haha. I really appreciate it though it's just what a fish club needs. So anyway it sounds like though maybe not the best live food option for adults it might be worth me giving vinegar eels a go instead of writing them off completely. Will still try to give daphnia/moina a go sometime and probably try the other worms at some point in the future too. I guess if they like white worms so much they deserve a treat now and then!