Reverse Respiration

[Guppysnail]

On 7/3/2022 at 7:57 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

Hi @Ken Burke. It may be OK. We've done no tests on mosses yet but @OnlyGenusCaps I believe did so with the container sealed. Completely sealed killed some leafy plants, but his mosses were fine. I forgot what kind he had though. @Guppysnail do you recall the type of moss he used for his "fry falls"?

I remember fry fall and him treating with the lid on successfully with no moss damage but I do not remember what type it was. 

[Its Hutch]

I've got a large anubias I plan on testing this on this week. I will go buy seltzer water on Wednesday. 

 

The aquarium the anubias is in currently has Bladder snails and Ramshorn snails as well as a little algae. I haven't inspected the anubias yet but have a new home planned for it.

 

I am hoping for the same success others had. I don't have a microscope or anything but I can attest after the fact. I am eager to try this new way as I have had success with Irene's Allum treatment multiple times before. 

[Its Hutch]

I will be following the directions already provided.

 

[Guppysnail]

@Its Hutch I’m glad you are giving it a go. No microscope needed. All uses provide great info.  Looking forward to seeing your results. 

[Guppysnail]

So far so good. 
All my oddballs look great to the naked eye. 
Things of note. 
Everything was definitely firmer.
-The hygrophilia pintafolia before treatment wrapped nicely around itself in a sort of limp way to fit in the glass. After treatment I went to put it back in the glass to administer tank water as I was not certain where to put it in tanks. It snapped in 3 places the stem was so firm. But the leaves look perkier than they did before. 

-the stems of the Florida ruffle are redder 

-the stems of the parrot feather are lighter pink. However once I added it to the tank all the feather leaves at the top that were closed since purchased opened, I forgot to take a photo of it opened  
-the crypt looks amazing and less wilty looking. I looked before treatment as I seen reddish brown steaks but it looks like those are part of the plant coloration. Those leaves look great also. There were a few babies in with the mother plant, they look great. 

-both bladderwort look good

Styrogene looks fantastic even the baby shoot looks good

priz Klein did great so far it still has emerged grown leaves that should ph prune off shortly 

I got 2x Christmas moss one long loose strands one thick mat. I had to use a decent amount of effort to tear off a section of the mat prior to treatment. After the vibrating massage in seltzer it gently works apart. The other was long loose strands. Both look good I made a moss mountain out of the loose. 
the picker weed and Purple Heart looked poor when I got home from the heat at the swap so I have not treated. I’m letting them recover on the window ledge. 
 

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Guppysnail

[Guppysnail]

Oh forgot because this is the second time I treated Riccia  fluitans and susswassertang it did fine just like last time. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Guppysnail

[Minanora]

On 6/16/2022 at 3:36 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

Hi, that's a really good point. As more people use the technique we'll start to see it's limitations! But it'll ever improve the data as we see reports of successes and failures. 

To your point, I did find this. I never tested this, I've never even seen a zebra mussel! So this is 2nd hand info but these people kill zebra mussels by infusing the water with Marimo moss balls with CO2.

They say that soaking the Marimo's in water with 1/3rd to 1X the CO2 in seltzer, they saw 50% kill off of the zebra mussel in 24 hours and 100% in 96 hours.  RR could be extended without harm to the plants if the cycles were normalized after the initial treatment. Basically, if it's changed to CO2 by day and plain water at night. You could perform multiple treatments to extend the bath time as it's a normal plant cycle vs reversing the cycle.  

One really cool aspect of the whole thing was frankly a surprise was when the plant was moved out of the seltzer to plain water, the pH shock literally shattered the snail eggs and killed the algae. We were planning on incubating them to watch for hatching after seltzer, but they literally exploded upon removal from seltzer and being placed in water. 

This may apply to the mussels, but I really don't know. the study is open-sourced so it's free. This is the link: Zebras and CO2

Here's an excerpt:

Abstract Control technology for dreissenid mussels (Dreissena polymorpha and D. bugensis) currently relies heavily on chemical molluscicides that can be both costly and ecologically harmful. There is a need for more environmentally neutral tools to manage dreissenid mussels, particularly in cooler water. Carbon dioxide (CO2) has been shown to be lethal to several species of invasive bivalves, including zebra mussels and Asian clams (Corbicula fluminea). We evaluated the effectiveness of unpressurized infusion of CO2 for 24 to 96 h (100 000–300 000 µatm PCO2) at a water temperature of 12 °C on mortality, byssal thread formation, and attachment of zebra mussels. The safety of elevated CO2 to a nontarget native freshwater mussel (Fatmucket, Lampsilis siliquoidea) was also determined. Elevated PCO2 exposure induced narcotization and reduced attachment of zebra mussels within 24 h. Mortality increased with exposure duration and PCO2. An estimated LT50 (lethal time to produce 50% mortality) for fixed PCO2 ranged from 24 h at 275 000 µatm to ~ 96 h at 100 000 µatm. (Seltzer would be about 330,000) Exposure of zebra mussels to CO2 for 96 h caused 80–100% mortality at all treatment levels. Fatmucket juveniles survived all PCO2 treatments but burial and byssal thread production were adversely affected during exposure. Our results demonstrate that CO2 is a viable option for management of zebra mussels in cool water and may have less adverse effect for native lampsiline mussels than current-use molluscicides.

Fascinating!

This is such an interesting topic. I pulled a bunch of infested plants out of my son's tank and made a run at RR with club soda. I haven't been home to see the results but I put it in a closet overnight and took it out the next morning.

[Ken Burke]

It’s striking how fast the algae turns red!  
 

before I uncovered it, I looked for snails etc, trying to escape.  
 

when I plopped it into the tank, poof, it turned red. And of course neighborhood watch needed to investigate the scene of the crime.

I did not have the heart to tell them several bodies were carted off.  

looks like MTS don’t survive 

 

[Guppysnail]

@Ken Burke I always find it satisfying to see the red bloody algae massacre. 

[modified lung]

On 7/4/2022 at 10:23 AM, Guppysnail said:

@Ken Burke I always find it satisfying to see the red bloody algae massacre. 

Lots of sadistic people on this thread.

[Odd Duck]

On 7/4/2022 at 12:57 PM, modified lung said:

Lots of sadistic people on this thread.

You do what you have to do when it comes to the algae war.

[Bev C]

I am going to walmart this week and get some seltzer water ,, and try this i usually use a clear tote bin for plant soak ,, i thought i would put plants in it and cover with a bath towel i really do not have real dark places 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Bev C

[Guppysnail]

On 7/4/2022 at 4:55 PM, Bev C said:

I am going to walmart this week and get some seltzer water ,, and try this i usually use a clear tote bin for plant soak ,, i thought i would put plants in it and cover with a bath towel i really do not real dark places 

I sit a lid on catty corner and cover with a towel. It works just fine. 

[Bev C]

@Guppysnail thank you  glad to hear the towel works  when i have to work with snails in the tote  i have a medal wire lid for the tote to keep them from escape i will put the lid on it catty corner and do the towel ,,

Guppysnail your plants are looking gorgeous,, specially the moss i am jealous tried to grow moss 3 -4 times I have murdered few other plants. too 😱i love the look of Anibius &  Java fern tried several tries growing  different types killed all  but 1 and it is hanging on barely 

I do not mind killing algae 🔪🔪 as long as my fish snd snail ok 😂😂😂

[Ken Burke]

(To Flight of the Valkyrie) we’re gonna kill the algae, we’re gonna kill the algae.  (Everybody now!)

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 7/3/2022 at 6:57 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

We've done no tests on mosses yet but @OnlyGenusCaps I believe did so with the container sealed.

I did run some X-mas moss through, which did fine.  Yes it was in a sealed container, but they were only in there for about 6ish hours.  I wasn't super strict about it being "dark" either, more dim.  Tossed a dark towel over it.  I saw no damage to the moss, and I am happy to report that months later there is still no sign of the algae it arrived with.  Plus unobserved snails were also eliminated. 

[Bev C]

@OnlyGenusCaps that is wonderful news to hear  i appreciate all the hard work each of you did on this project ,, Any help small or big steps  to get rid of a little more algae even if it does not remove it all   is awesome win for me  i have fought algae for a year now it is better but always  hanging around  no matter what i do 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Bev C

[modified lung]

This water primrose got a 12 hour club soda root soak on Thursday night. It's been under an aquarium light until today. New growth since Friday is circles in the picture. I've never seen these grow at all under an aquarium light. Usually they just whither away unless they're outside. 

[Guppysnail]

On 7/4/2022 at 8:55 PM, modified lung said:

This water primrose got a 12 hour club soda root soak on Thursday night. It's been under an aquarium light until today. New growth since Friday is circles in the picture. I've never seen these grow at all under an aquarium light. Usually they just whither away unless they're outside. 

Yes. We seen the same initial acceleration of new growth on many types plants. It is what sparked the Part 2 of the article We are working on a right now that we gave a preview of at the end of the original article. 
Our notice was actually kicked off by the initial greening and firming after soaking. 

I would be incredibly grateful if you could take a series of photos and note when it slows and when you stop seeing growth or if it begins to wither as normal and how long it took. 
 

I bought several types of ludwigia seeds (not the primrose though) to sprout and see initial growth sadly I got them on eBay and even with stratification on the ones that require it none sprouted for me to even try a sprout soak. Or initial emerged to submerged transition. 

[Torrey]

On 7/2/2022 at 6:18 AM, Odd Duck said:

I didn’t Dew any pictures on the plants I treated with the diet Dr. Pepper but there didn’t seem to be any adverse affects, so hopefully there being a Dr. in the house didn’t cause any problems.  😆 

The SodaStream is here along with flavors, so if I can, I will run some tests on some Wolffia that I’ve been dying to clear.  I’ve got a bunch of different, cool mosses in one tank that has a Wolffia issue despite having some endlers in there as clean up crew.  The endlers have aged out of the equation, unfortunately.  I have some guppy fry that I may try in that tank but I need to reset that tank anyway, so I need to figure out if I can nuke the Wolffia without nuking my wonderful mosses and susswassertang in that tank.  I’ve got enough of each to be able to risk sections of it.

My schedule is taking a turn this next week and I live far enough from work that it isn’t handy to run there on a day off just to put things under the microscope.  But I have plenty of snack size zip bags and a sharpie to label things.  I even have a home sealer so I could make compartments in the zip bags for treated on one side and untreated on the other.

It might be time to get a scope for home.  I’ve always loved microscope work.  I’ll see if I can get enough Wolffia collected to run meaningful tests.  I don’t have loads of it anymore, but should be enough for some testing.  The trick is even the smallest amount surviving will let it come roaring back if I can’t get these plants and mosses cleaned.  It’s even worse than nerm glitter for being “contagious” from tank to tank because it’s the size of fine glitter.

I ended up with wolffia in with Lemna minuta😭 Our home has now officially been nerm glittered, because no matter how careful I am they get everywhere. Trying to make sure none go down the sink?🤣

If only I could make it profitable, lol

https://www.1mg.com/otc/sbl-lemna-minor-dilution-30-ch-otc348168

 

[Torrey]

On 7/3/2022 at 3:02 PM, Ken Burke said:

I woke from my Sunday afternoon nap feeling somewhat murderous.  🐌 

 

gonna suck the life out of some algae.  Someone also questioned if this would remove MTS.  Gonna find that out too.

I’ve wanted to try it on my mossy log for a while.  Since it’s fairly large, I had trouble finding some thing large enough to hold it without needing gallons of carbonated water.  So adding a cling wrap over the top. Figure it will hold the co2 in place.

in the morning we shall see. 

Is it bad that I snortled in response to you feeling murderous?

[Bev C]

@Torrey  & @Ken Burke you are so funny thanks  for the laughs this morning👏👏 I love killing algae LoL 🔪🔪😂 

I am the type that do not mind experimenting or afraid to trying new things  (not sure if that is a good thing or not ) 

I decided  to soak all my plants  since my whole tank  plants have algae I mostly have more algae on my Ludwigia ,Cryptocoryne  Lutea  , and  Hygrophila Corymbosa Cherryleaf . my snails and pelco keeps my rocks, equipment and walls pretty well clean .

I am going to do the Seltzer Water slowly a few plants at time already have  a case of Seltzer water on my next walmart shopping list   figured 4 bottles would do close to a gallon soak for my tote 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Bev C

[Ken Burke]

On 7/5/2022 at 1:40 AM, Torrey said:

Is it bad that I snortled in response to you feeling murderous?

The objective was milk coming out your nose, but I’ll take it!

[eatyourpeas]

On 7/3/2022 at 5:45 PM, eatyourpeas said:

Joining this experiment, because it is too much fun!

Currently treating Riccia fluitans, Süsswassertang and a tiny bit of Water wisteria. Went to the SodaStream spa at noon today. Will report tomorrow. 😎

I did apologize profusely to the algae. Green hair and staghorn. BBA still refuses to grow for me... 🙄

And they all came out beautiful! Lost a couple of itty bitty bladder snails that were tangled in the algae. RIP.

On a side note, a big cheer to @Guppysnail for becoming an aquatic gardener extraordinaire. I was looking at early pictures of your tanks, and oh my!, your jungles are impressive and gorgeous! Inspiring, as always! 😍

[Ken Burke]

On 7/5/2022 at 9:53 AM, eatyourpeas said:

And they all came out beautiful! Lost a couple of itty bitty bladder snails that were tangled in the algae. RIP.

On a side note, a big cheer to @Guppysnail for becoming an aquatic gardener extraordinaire. I was looking at early pictures of your tanks, and oh my!, your jungles are impressive and gorgeous! Inspiring, as always! 😍

Seconded!