Reverse Respiration

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/2/2022 at 2:55 AM, Guppysnail said:

I have done manzanita three pieces I had different moss on.  It will be fine. The most decomposed thin outer layer fell to a powder. Not enough was vibrated off to cause my moss to come unglued. I sort of pictured that action like dusting very dusty furniture.  I will be curious how it does with other wood. Unless it’s rotted almost completely as happens over the years with aquarium wood the worst that should happen is the need to reglue your plant. 
Some of your most heavily algae covered leaves will deteriorate.  Once they are that compromised they are either already dead or dying and are not afforded the vascular protection a healthy leaf has. Unhealthy Anubias leaves took a few week after cleaning for me to see this. Faster growers I seen it sooner.  It’s the “ph pruning” spoken of in the article. It’s very similar to pruning dead leaves with scissors.  The boost and growth we have witness after RR should help plants outcompete the algae if the imbalance in the tank has been corrected.  

Especially with manzanita I'm familiar with that powder you're talking of.  When I was using a razor to scrape off hard attached bits of the algae it was essentially that same layer and it was basically mulm, but still attached to the wood itself.  On the mopani, we'll see what happens, but it's a bit different externally on the structure of the wood itself.  I'll have the two pieces side by side, so it'll be nice to see the difference.  Top of the wood is light, bottom of the wood is very dark which provides two methods to see the difference in change as well.

Fun stuff!

First batch is done, sitting in the freshwater now. 🙂

[Guppysnail]

@RadMax8 the carbonation pressure decay the chart and the labs we got the studies from are in the PDF download. The rest is in the article.   I wanted you to know where to find them. 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Guppysnail

[nabokovfan87]

After 12 hours of treatment.

Susswassertang:


Anubias Nangi:



Anubias Nana:

[Nanci B]

I hope this is where questions go. 
 

As some you might know, my tank is completely overwhelmed by different types of algae. I want to try the RR process to kill the staghorn. Any others will be a bonus. Lol 

I would like to remove all the plants and do them all at one time, so then it will be as if I am re-aquascaping the tank. Currently there isn’t any hardscape in the tank. Just some nano fish. 
 

Will it affect the tank or the fish in a negative way to remove all the plants at once? I have about 15 crypts, some anubias, and just a few stem plants. I also have about 20 new plants to plant that are floating. I am going to examine them for any algae, but suspect they are fine. 
 

TIA
 

 

[Guppysnail]

On 8/2/2022 at 9:01 PM, Nanci B said:

I hope this is where questions go. 
 

As some you might know, my tank is completely overwhelmed by different types of algae. I want to try the RR process to kill the staghorn. Any others will be a bonus. Lol 

I would like to remove all the plants and do them all at one time, so then it will be as if I am re-aquascaping the tank. Currently there isn’t any hardscape in the tank. Just some nano fish. 
 

Will it affect the tank or the fish in a negative way to remove all the plants at once? I have about 15 crypts, some anubias, and just a few stem plants. I also have about 20 new plants to plant that are floating. I am going to examine them for any algae, but suspect they are fine. 
 

TIA
 

 

It will remove the beneficial bacteria from the plants. If your tank is well established with proper filtration it really should not have an impact. Keep an eye on Ammonia and nitrites for a few days. I doubt you will lose enough BB to impact anything but just in case. 

[Bev C]

Quote

Your husband called. He's trying to butter a piece of toast and can't seem to find a utensil?

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea and  @Guppysnail thanks for the laugh  I lost my  Bristolnose  Marvin today and I appreciated the laugh  I needed it , and I  have got to admit  I did what Guppysnail did I had extra forks  and use them for weights 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Bev C

[Guppysnail]

@Nanci Byour fish may be nervous in a tank with no plants. Once you get them back in and they are used to the new scape they should be fine. 

On 8/2/2022 at 9:38 PM, Bev C said:

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea and  @Guppysnail thanks for the laugh  I lost Bristolnose  Marvin today and I appreciated the laugh  I needed, and I did what Guppysnail did I had extra forks  and use them for weights 

Bev I am so sorry to hear of Marvin. I know how much you loved him. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Guppysnail

[Bev C]

@Guppysnail  thank you  and yes I loved him, but I could not have him suffer any more it was a hard decision. They said he would not get better.   But  after I get over my heart break I will get another bristolnose  they are my favorite along with cories could not imagine not having one in my main tank  

[Nanci B]

@Guppysnail Thanks for those two heads up. I agree about the potential nervousness, but unless the —to be planted plants—have any algae, they will remain in the tank also there is frogbit almost covering the surface. So they will still have those and the sponge filters for shelter. 
 

I will definitely keep an eye on parameters. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/2/2022 at 6:39 PM, Guppysnail said:

@Nanci Byour fish may be nervous in a tank with no plants. Once you get them back in and they are used to the new scape they should be fine. 

Mine were slightly happy to have the "extra space" without the little bits of seiryu stone in the way for a little bit.

I still haven't put it back in yet, but I did have a question.

Maybe this is one for the FAQ, but... If the tank doesn't have any algae eaters, the best thing to do is manual removal after treatment.  If the tank does have algae eaters, depending what type, the best bet is likely to remove what you can but let them handle it once it's added back to the tank. Sound about right?

I'm assuming that if left in the tank to wither away, it could just potentially cause excess rotting plant matter and then cause some algae.

[Guppysnail]

On 8/3/2022 at 1:46 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Mine were slightly happy to have the "extra space" without the little bits of seiryu stone in the way for a little bit.

I still haven't put it back in yet, but I did have a question.

Maybe this is one for the FAQ, but... If the tank doesn't have any algae eaters, the best thing to do is manual removal after treatment.  If the tank does have algae eaters, depending what type, the best bet is likely to remove what you can but let them handle it once it's added back to the tank. Sound about right?

I'm assuming that if left in the tank to wither away, it could just potentially cause excess rotting plant matter and then cause some algae.

Thank you for bringing this up  I don’t think it’s been discussed yet  

It withers away. I seen no issues due to it rotting away. After we learned the most extreme covered leaves were already dead and dying under a microscope they “ph prune” themselves over time and most plants experience an initial growth boost just after, I began trimming off the worst algae covered leaves. I allowed (actually encouraged) algae to get bad to do all the testing. Some anubias (16 total) were down to only 2 live leaves after I snipped. However they all came back better than before. 
 

All my mother anubias plants each sent out full daughter plants as well as new leaves and flowers not long after treatment and being snipped back.Two of my oldest mother anubias plants each sent out 2 daughter plants at onetime. I was shocked I’ve never had any send out 2 daughters at once.  
 

Wiping away the dead algae is a good idea and would be better aesthetically, especially if you have no critters that will eat it. Melamine disposable wipes (thin algae erasers) I found work best. I get thin sheets that are not over expensive on Amazon. I just make certain it’s pure.   It’s already essentially drained of almost everything so does not contribute to polluting a tank. Obviously I put even huge clumps of hair algae back so I could see what it did over time 😝. For large leaved plants wiping is great but thinner more delicate ones algae will fall away without causing tank issues. 
 

These are what I use. I prefer them over thick algae erasers because I can tear them to the appropriate size for the job and they are disposable at a reasonable cost (I have goofy issues with wet sponges 🤪)
 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Guppysnail

[Nanci B]

On 8/2/2022 at 11:46 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Mine were slightly happy to have the "extra space" without the little bits of seiryu stone in the way for a little bit.

I still haven't put it back in yet, but I did have a question.

Maybe this is one for the FAQ, but... If the tank doesn't have any algae eaters, the best thing to do is manual removal after treatment.  If the tank does have algae eaters, depending what type, the best bet is likely to remove what you can but let them handle it once it's added back to the tank. Sound about right?

I'm assuming that if left in the tank to wither away, it could just potentially cause excess rotting plant matter and then cause some algae.

Thanks for pointing that out. I do intend to sell my assassin snails, and then buy a male nerite and at least one or more mystery snails depending on how fast they reproduce. I don’t want to be overwhelmed with snails again. 
 

[nabokovfan87]

I moved the seiryu stone, mopani+Anubias today.  Once lights come on I'll grab some photos for everyone to see.  I am curious for something like seiryu if it can negate the effects or if I just messed up somehow.  I do see some white ends on the algae, but it doesn't look like it did enough.  12 hours might not be enough for how infested some of these things are in my tank. 

I'll keep an eye out for more seltzer at the store, potentially get some more.

I did find out, while it started fully submerged, it will lose some volume so you do want to have some headspace for the liquid to drop level a little bit.

Hopefully we can see this as well in the photos tonight.

[Guppysnail]

On 8/3/2022 at 4:27 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I moved the seiryu stone, mopani+Anubias today.  Once lights come on I'll grab some photos for everyone to see.  I am curious for something like seiryu if it can negate the effects or if I just messed up somehow.  I do see some white ends on the algae, but it doesn't look like it did enough.  12 hours might not be enough for how infested some of these things are in my tank. 

I'll keep an eye out for more seltzer at the store, potentially get some more.

I did find out, while it started fully submerged, it will lose some volume so you do want to have some headspace for the liquid to drop level a little bit.

Hopefully we can see this as well in the photos tonight.

The only 12 hour resistant algae we have so far found is in the marimo family. Bba and staghorn turns red and has even “bleached out” To white. The stone and how much you had will make no difference. Trust when I say I grew A LOT of very dense algae to test this. Yours in the picture was a small amount in comparison Some algae look the same after treatment to the naked eye but the cells are denatured and it is indeed dead when looked at under a microscope You are fine give it time. 
The only thing that could have interfered was it not being a freshly opened bottle. I never tested seltzer that was not opened immediately before use. 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Guppysnail

[nabokovfan87]

I just scraped the glass so I can get better photos. I'll be interested to see what everyone things. I also, finally got sand for the tank, so that's a huge plus.

[nabokovfan87]

Photos might be a bit confusing, so I'll comment above each one to clarify what we're looking at.  The rocks I will grab some photos of as well, separate tank, but treated alongside the wood.

Overview of the two pieces side by side. Treated piece is on the right side.
Note: this is not an accurate test because I used a bottle that was opened 12 hours prior to use.  1.5L was "opened recently" while 2L was unopened and fresh.


Treated piece close up, anubias algae is "whitened" and you can see some of this on the wood itself.  You can see half of this anubias ended up above the water, still wet, but just wasn't fully treated.  The wood stayed fully submerged.

Second closeup, treated wood on the right.

Close up of the algae on the wood. Untreated wood in the background.

Untreated wood close up. There is also a piece of anubias that was not treated.

Untreated wood, close up.

Edited August 5, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[Guppysnail]

On 8/4/2022 at 8:54 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Photos might be a bit confusing, so I'll comment above each one to clarify what we're looking at.  The rocks I will grab some photos of as well, separate tank, but treated alongside the wood.

Overview of the two pieces side by side. Treated piece is on the right side.
Note: this is not an accurate test because I used a bottle that was opened 12 hours prior to use.  1.5L was "opened recently" while 2L was unopened and fresh.


Treated piece close up, anubias algae is "whitened" and you can see some of this on the wood itself.  You can see half of this anubias ended up above the water, still wet, but just wasn't fully treated.  The wood stayed fully submerged.

Second closeup, treated wood on the right.

Close up of the algae on the wood. Untreated wood in the background.

Untreated wood close up. There is also a piece of anubias that was not treated.

Untreated wood, close up.

It will be interesting to see if the already opened seltzer worked. He ran across using Perrier at one pint and it did not work. It was not low enough ph. Just like off gassing tap as seltzer off gasses the ph raises. 
 

keeping thing below the liquid is interesting. It does not work when the float up. As you can see from some of my photos I rob the utensil drawer. Then my poor hubby can’t butter toast 🤣 @Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[eatyourpeas]

On 8/5/2022 at 2:57 AM, Guppysnail said:

can’t butter toast 🤣

That would make a very unhappy person! No butter, no flavor, no food! 🤪

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Doing some tank maintenance and well, arm was already wet. Might as well pull the diatom plants out for some RR. Candidates are red ludwigia (which is green because I’m too cheap to buy iron) and Java moss. Updates to follow.

 

 

I’m particularly interested to see how the Java moss turns out. That’s been coated for too long.

[Guppysnail]

On 8/5/2022 at 2:54 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Doing some tank maintenance and well, arm was already wet. Might as well pull the diatom plants out for some RR. Candidates are red ludwigia (which is green because I’m too cheap to buy iron) and Java moss. Updates to follow.

 

 

I’m particularly interested to see how the Java moss turns out. That’s been coated for too long.

Java does awesome it loved seltzer for me. Looks like your hubby gets to use a paper plate tonight 🤣🤗

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/5/2022 at 3:25 PM, Guppysnail said:

Java does awesome it loved seltzer for me. Looks like your hubby gets to use a paper plate tonight 🤣🤗

That’s his problem. 😈😂

Edited August 5, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Results

 

I see improvement, but still see some brown clinging to the leaves. Could be dead diatoms? Overall leaves appear “shinier”.

Edited August 6, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Guppysnail]

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea it’s dead unless the lands floated up underneath the plate into a giant air pocket. I doubt that happened so it’s dead. Diatom is aerobic so the lack of oxygen alone would kill it. They look better. I’m hoping you share the progress over time. 

[nabokovfan87]

As a sidenote, I heard about someone dosing a bit of water with excel and using that as a fungicide by letting that sit.  I took what I had left of my bottle of easy carbon and dumped that into a bucket with wood. I doubt it'll do ANYTHING to this frickin' algae, but I'll mention that for the sake of anything weird happening with this piece of wood in future. The anubias broke off, it's now on the side of the tank, and still struggling. I tested the tank and it was zero nitrates yet again. 



As for the topic at hand.  These are the rocks that were treated. Algae is "shorter" but I don't think it's slowing it down or going to wither off.  I do have amanos in the tank, they haven't touched it.  These guys are likely candidates for re-treatment.  I don't know if anyone has tested these in a "CO2 setup" environment, maybe that skews performance of RR?

Needless to say this tank is an attrocious mess and it's so difficult to see the plants struggle.  I don't expect it to fix itself overnight, but my hope is to out compete the algae and remove it from hardscape where I can in ways that work.  It's the most difficult thing I've ever seen to try to remove.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/6/2022 at 8:57 AM, Guppysnail said:

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea it’s dead unless the lands floated up underneath the plate into a giant air pocket. I doubt that happened so it’s dead. Diatom is aerobic so the lack of oxygen alone would kill it. They look better. I’m hoping you share the progress over time. 

Oh forgot to mention, after a few hr I flipped the plate over to prevent any air pocket. 😊👍

On 8/6/2022 at 5:11 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

wood. I doubt it'll do ANYTHING to this frickin' algae, but I'll mention that for the sake of anything weird happening with this piece of wood in future.

Have you tried reducing your light duration?