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Along with my results from yesterdays algae “bloodsucking” I want to share a new plant I inadvertently tested. Carnivorous Bladderwort. 
 

A few weeks ago I bought Riccia Fluitans at a club auction. Also up for auctions someone placed two types of carnivorous bladderwort. One that eats fry and one that does not.  Guess who was also selling the Riccia I bought 🤪

So into the seltzer went the moss and into 2 tanks. No pests or algae but I now have several very healthy strands of one or both of those bladderworts growing from the moss. I discarded the bladderwort without thinking but if I find more in the moss I am going to add it to my Snailtopia. plenty of microfauna so it should do well.  F83FB8B7-7D33-46E5-9E03-118A225D4A6F.jpeg.3f6843b3b89ba251a950ebfc7f5293ad.jpeg73DC11F0-48D5-492C-B058-B755CF1BC776.jpeg.b8df30863db4fcd0a54adfb6d4f351f4.jpeg

Lights were out yesterday when I added my plants back to the tank so I took pics this morning.  The shrimp and guppies have cleaned most of the dead algae away already. A35FFE20-F0DD-428F-AA32-5E5F30A06AB2.jpeg.d28ad8610e483f239f6daec338d5194b.jpeg587117E4-3593-4B7D-A1FE-CE91636578C7.jpeg.f6a3d41b46fe069116fa717548fa974c.jpegA0A50D5E-FF31-42B8-B513-AA4E337F8C0C.jpeg.06cec65098571a1bbd79ac4a28bb8a34.jpeg

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On 6/15/2022 at 2:26 PM, Guppysnail said:

I want to give a special thank you to @Irenefor her diligent work and videos on the best methods for snail removal. She put a lot of time and work into them.  This gave us the opportunity to follow her detailed instructions on the most common methods of pest removal so we could compare the differences in damage on a cellular level. Thank you for all you do Irene your videos are all wonderful and fun I enjoy watching them.

Wow, congratulations and huge thanks to the whole team for all your hard work and documentation! I'm so excited to try this out since I have definitely found that some weaker/more fragile plants do not like the alum treatment I use. 

I also discovered that Malaysian trumpet snails were able to survive for several days in normally lethal levels of alum solution, and I assumed it was because their trapdoors were so tightly shut. Guess I'll have to make a Petco run to get  some different types of pest snails!

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On 6/27/2022 at 5:46 PM, Irene said:

Wow, congratulations and huge thanks to the whole team for all your hard work and documentation! I'm so excited to try this out since I have definitely found that some weaker/more fragile plants do not like the alum treatment I use. 

I also discovered that Malaysian trumpet snails were able to survive for several days in normally lethal levels of alum solution, and I assumed it was because their trapdoors were so tightly shut. Guess I'll have to make a Petco run to get  some different types of pest snails!

Thanks Irene. I can’t remember if @dasaltemelosguy thoroughly test Malaysian trumpets. I did have a few itty bitty baby ones I found at the bottom of the seltzer from plants I purchased at auction. They did not make it. I can’t wait to see how you make out with the plants you found to be more delicate. I hope you share your results positive or negative so we can learn together. 

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On 6/27/2022 at 9:02 AM, Guppysnail said:

Along with my results from yesterdays algae “bloodsucking” I want to share a new plant I inadvertently tested. Carnivorous Bladderwort. 
 

A few weeks ago I bought Riccia Fluitans at a club auction. Also up for auctions someone placed two types of carnivorous bladderwort. One that eats fry and one that does not.  Guess who was also selling the Riccia I bought 🤪

So into the seltzer went the moss and into 2 tanks. No pests or algae but I now have several very healthy strands of one or both of those bladderworts growing from the moss. I discarded the bladderwort without thinking but if I find more in the moss I am going to add it to my Snailtopia. plenty of microfauna so it should do well.  F83FB8B7-7D33-46E5-9E03-118A225D4A6F.jpeg.3f6843b3b89ba251a950ebfc7f5293ad.jpeg73DC11F0-48D5-492C-B058-B755CF1BC776.jpeg.b8df30863db4fcd0a54adfb6d4f351f4.jpeg

Lights were out yesterday when I added my plants back to the tank so I took pics this morning.  The shrimp and guppies have cleaned most of the dead algae away already. A35FFE20-F0DD-428F-AA32-5E5F30A06AB2.jpeg.d28ad8610e483f239f6daec338d5194b.jpeg587117E4-3593-4B7D-A1FE-CE91636578C7.jpeg.f6a3d41b46fe069116fa717548fa974c.jpegA0A50D5E-FF31-42B8-B513-AA4E337F8C0C.jpeg.06cec65098571a1bbd79ac4a28bb8a34.jpeg

Is that a baby pleco in front of the plant in picture 2?  😍

On 6/27/2022 at 5:02 PM, Guppysnail said:

Thanks Irene. I can’t remember if @dasaltemelosguy thoroughly test Malaysian trumpets. I did have a few itty bitty baby ones I found at the bottom of the seltzer from plants I purchased at auction. They did not make it. I can’t wait to see how you make out with the plants you found to be more delicate. I hope you share your results positive or negative so we can learn together. 

@Irene Maybe a “girl talks fish“ collaboration with @guppysnail?  Just sayin’

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On 6/27/2022 at 6:24 PM, Ken Burke said:

Is that a baby pleco in front of the plant in picture 2?  😍

@Irene Maybe a “girl talks fish“ collaboration with @guppysnail?  Just sayin’

Yes. Longfin lemon blue eyed. Mom n dads kids had kids. This is Angel and Lefty’s first batch. Came out of the cave last week. Hopefully no filter plecos were born this time 🤣

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On 6/27/2022 at 2:46 PM, Irene said:

Wow, congratulations and huge thanks to the whole team for all your hard work and documentation! I'm so excited to try this out since I have definitely found that some weaker/more fragile plants do not like the alum treatment I use. 

I also discovered that Malaysian trumpet snails were able to survive for several days in normally lethal levels of alum solution, and I assumed it was because their trapdoors were so tightly shut. Guess I'll have to make a Petco run to get  some different types of pest snails!

Thank you so much for the kind words! Your videos were our literal reference for judging plant damage and because of your findings, we had a goal and a comparative example for every stage of plant damage testing. 

Our 'swamp' tank where we bred pests for our tests had a myriad of critters, but I don't think we saw any Malaysian Trumpets, so we really don't know definitively.

However, there are a couple of significant differences that might shed light on the probability of outcome. 

Not unlike carbonated water, the alum solution is very acidic. However, the alum solution could still enjoy 80%+ of the normal level of dissolved oxygen and would also have about the same pressure as plain water.

The carbonated water would be similarly acidic, but it would have zero oxygen and perhaps more importantly, it has 300%+ higher pressure than plain water. 

Other types of snails with trapped air in their shells saw that forced out within minutes due to this very high pressure so it's possible that would preclude the protection of the operculum closing and storing air as it would probably be forced out by the intense pressure and allow the anoxic fluid to enter. 

That said, we really have no idea! 

We're hoping more & more people try it and we can refine it as the data matures and we begin to see its limitations and perhaps adjust the process to be more universal. 

Thank you so much for trying our process. Your video work and findings helped us in designing Reverse Respiration immensely. 

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Brazilian pennywort, Japanese dwarf pennywort, guppy grass, dwarf hair grass, rotala, weeping moss:

PXL_20220701_011140166.jpg.be43ae0e93895bb7523f0fc216570987.jpg

Bacopa, ludwigia, hornwort, ambulia:

PXL_20220701_032029513.jpg.c1a008ab584f4de88039c797b35b7899.jpg

(Not pictured) four leaf clover, dwarf sag, water primrose, elodia.

...in a big wad of hair algae:PXL_20220701_010713454.jpg.fe6bcb6e15ae9553cf6997fc85cbcbd3.jpg

 

Carbonated water soak:

PXL_20220701_033846944.jpg.24d6161569ced8d50c26aaa185532da7.jpg

Added carbonated water to some greenwater cultures. Could be a good way to prevent zooplankton contamination:

PXL_20220701_041331500.jpg.dbca3466a79f72baa421a3fc2314e128.jpg

Pests like to hang out on biomedia too. How angry do you think this will make the bacteria?:PXL_20220701_022924962.jpg.238cdc00e5247b4cf12d44a1d77db138.jpg

Before and after microscope pictures tomorrow.

 

 

Edited by modified lung
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On 6/27/2022 at 4:02 PM, Guppysnail said:

Thanks Irene. I can’t remember if @dasaltemelosguy thoroughly test Malaysian trumpets. I did have a few itty bitty baby ones I found at the bottom of the seltzer from plants I purchased at auction. They did not make it. I can’t wait to see how you make out with the plants you found to be more delicate. I hope you share your results positive or negative so we can learn together. 

I have a plethora I can test, as well as some Hercules. Yes, I may be holding a grudge over hteir overly aggressive job "cleaning" the melt off of my AR roseaefolia and scarlet temple...

But, it's in the name of science!

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On 7/1/2022 at 12:18 AM, modified lung said:

Brazilian pennywort, Japanese dwarf pennywort, guppy grass, dwarf hair grass, rotala, weeping moss:

PXL_20220701_011140166.jpg.be43ae0e93895bb7523f0fc216570987.jpg

Bacopa, ludwigia, hornwort, ambulia:

PXL_20220701_032029513.jpg.c1a008ab584f4de88039c797b35b7899.jpg

(Not pictured) four leaf clover, dwarf sag, water primrose, elodia.

...in a big wad of hair algae:PXL_20220701_010713454.jpg.fe6bcb6e15ae9553cf6997fc85cbcbd3.jpg

 

Carbonated water soak:

PXL_20220701_033846944.jpg.24d6161569ced8d50c26aaa185532da7.jpg

Added carbonated water to some greenwater cultures. Could be a good way to prevent zooplankton contamination:

PXL_20220701_041331500.jpg.dbca3466a79f72baa421a3fc2314e128.jpg

Pests like to hang out on biomedia too. How angry do you think this will make the bacteria?:PXL_20220701_022924962.jpg.238cdc00e5247b4cf12d44a1d77db138.jpg

Before and after microscope pictures tomorrow.

 

 

That looks like the wad of hair algae I used from my snailtopia tank. Hair algae was one of the harder ones for me to kill. Unless I went total blackout. I tried a batch in the fish bathroom/work sink and totally forgot I had a nightlight that was a foot from my clear clear container. 🤦🏼‍♀️. It still worked but not nearly as completely. 
 

Your bacteria on the media I do not think will be happy. 
 

I am so excited you are testing things like green water etc.

Edit to add… I’m wondering how having it mixed with water affecting the ph/pressure etc  it will fair  The study we looked at showed diluted vinegar still worked on zebra mussels so fingers crossed  

There are so many things, pests, different algaes we did not have the opportunity to test. Being just hobby folks and not having labs and grants/funding limited us to what we had available. 
Opening this up to the forum we were hoping folks would try it and help out making the data much more complete. Finding more things/algaes etc this does and does not work on will help us refine the process further. 
You having a microscope makes your help and trials super great so we can see what goes on inside each thing. 
 

In 6 months we found nothing available to us this did not work on. That makes us both nervous because nothing is absolute. Finding exceptions will provide so much useful data. 
 

Thank you for helping out 🤗 and giving this a go. It is very appreciated. 

Edited by Guppysnail
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On 7/1/2022 at 1:54 AM, Torrey said:

I have a plethora I can test, as well as some Hercules. Yes, I may be holding a grudge over hteir overly aggressive job "cleaning" the melt off of my AR roseaefolia and scarlet temple...

But, it's in the name of science!

We all need outlets for frustration…you go 🤣 

And thanks for joining the team 🤗

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On 6/30/2022 at 11:18 PM, modified lung said:

Brazilian pennywort, Japanese dwarf pennywort, guppy grass, dwarf hair grass, rotala, weeping moss:

PXL_20220701_011140166.jpg.be43ae0e93895bb7523f0fc216570987.jpg

Bacopa, ludwigia, hornwort, ambulia:

PXL_20220701_032029513.jpg.c1a008ab584f4de88039c797b35b7899.jpg

(Not pictured) four leaf clover, dwarf sag, water primrose, elodia.

...in a big wad of hair algae:PXL_20220701_010713454.jpg.fe6bcb6e15ae9553cf6997fc85cbcbd3.jpg

 

Carbonated water soak:

PXL_20220701_033846944.jpg.24d6161569ced8d50c26aaa185532da7.jpg

Added carbonated water to some greenwater cultures. Could be a good way to prevent zooplankton contamination:

PXL_20220701_041331500.jpg.dbca3466a79f72baa421a3fc2314e128.jpg

Pests like to hang out on biomedia too. How angry do you think this will make the bacteria?:PXL_20220701_022924962.jpg.238cdc00e5247b4cf12d44a1d77db138.jpg

Before and after microscope pictures tomorrow.

 

 

Algae and other pests beware!  You have attracted the attention of @modified lung  the end is nigh!

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On 7/1/2022 at 8:05 AM, Ken Burke said:

Algae and other pests beware!  You have attracted the attention of @modified lung  the end is nigh!

ACO TEAM VS ALGAE/PESTS
Going in to the second inning Bases are loaded. T. Bundy Waiting on first hoping for a home run. J. Dahmer  is now up to bat here at ACO field. 🎶Centerfield 🎶 plays in the background 🤣

Edited by Guppysnail
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@Guppysnail what are the ingredients in the great value seltzer water? The grocery store near me had two different options. One had high fructose corn syrup and the other had sodium citrate. I wasn't sure if the corn syrup would be the best idea and idk what sodium citrate does. I chose the sodium citrate option. What do you think is better? Or maybe neither of them are great?

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On 7/1/2022 at 12:06 PM, modified lung said:

@Guppysnail what are the ingredients in the great value seltzer water? The grocery store near me had two different options. One had high fructose corn syrup and the other had sodium citrate. I wasn't sure if the corn syrup would be the best idea and idk what sodium citrate does. I chose the sodium citrate option. What do you think is better? Or maybe neither of them are great?

I’m not certain. Here are the two types I used and I know he used plain. I kept running out and visited multiple locations to get just plain carbonated water. I have no clue if they would affect plants or have a role at all I’m definitely not on the science side of this equation.  That stuffs over my head @dasaltemelosguy thoughts?  

61174A24-70B4-4555-A1FA-C34079FD8E2F.jpeg

EE7A48F1-5B54-4DFB-8E09-A513EC69ABAC.jpeg

4BC80DDC-BC94-4543-8A7A-D99289BF6F0E.jpeg

ECF6D6FB-995F-4A04-BE15-A1EFED3CDBD5.jpeg

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I've considered the Pepsi Challenge, or even Doing the Dew, despite wanting to Be a Pepper too. But everyone knows Things Go Better with Coke! Upon further consideration, I may have given the plants diabetes!

Terrible jokes aside (sorry for the recycled humor @Odd Duck!), I've had to use club soda a couple of times when there was no seltzer available, and I never noticed any difference in the outcome nor the chemistry. The salts are neutral, so I'd only be concerned about sugars as they're a potential energy source. But there doesn't seem to be enough additive to affect the outcomes that we've tested.

I just RR'ed a bunch of Amazon Swords and we used lime club soda because we drank what we didn't use!

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I don't really know what I'm looking at so someone will have to point out anything interesting. 

Sounds like the OPs used seltzer water that only contained carbonated water on the ingredient list while mine also listed sodium citrate. At some point I'll repeat the same experiment without the extra ingredient.

Treated 12 hours in the dark.

Treated photos are all on the left

Untreated on the right.

100x and 250x magnification.

OPs let me know if you want me to do anything else to replace what you all did. I was planning on putting all these plants back in there original tanks after this. Maybe take more photos of the same plants in a few days?

 

HornwortGridArt_20220701_103245895.jpg.4b54361eede50aac4e1f7b3780ffb525.jpg

Dwarf Sag GridArt_20220701_104858406.jpg.43a4aa8aad2466a99b8798ad05b4ba11.jpg

Ludwigia GridArt_20220701_111606282.jpg.7ebf8a615539c8189b96215c0061264d.jpg

Japanese Dwarf Pennywort (top half) w/ some hair algae

Brazilian Pennywort (bottom half)

GridArt_20220701_115428725.jpg.4b5419c08e30c8dd37429da20e0efec5.jpg

Guppy Grass (treated leafs not looking happy) GridArt_20220701_115019575.jpg.d8477314d64e369fb719895daf4794a1.jpg

Hair Algae GridArt_20220701_110042076.jpg.3fd5b50e39149b3d380ff8d002a5878e.jpg

Some other kind of hair algae, darker in color + some other microorganisms attached to the algae:GridArt_20220701_110131342.jpg.8437a10e0cf8f900626ab267847d34a5.jpg

Snails not only died but completely disintegrated, including Malaysian trumpet snails:PXL_20220701_182448465.jpg.3d57b9670e779dde8c7fbeb5265d2e7f.jpg

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So the guppy grass may be to delicate to treat or at least for that long. Certain red algae I could kill at the 5 hour mark. The greens I had definitely took 9.
The second set of darker hair algae may need a longer duration as it does not look affected.

@modified lungDid the guppy grass have any activity even very slow within it? 
Also I’m curious what they look like after a day or so in tank water. 

Im the plant grower and picture taker so I’m interested if @dasaltemelosguy sees anything else. 
 

I know he has a video of the Marimo moss ball draining of contents (very cool). Marimo actually being algae, but it took longer to affect than most. 
 

Thanks for testing the trumpet snails. 

Edited by Guppysnail
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@modified lung, beautiful images! Great comparative evidence! 

I would tag @OnlyGenusCaps as he would probably recognize issues or patterns I would not.

For example, in one of our algaecide tests, one of the expired algae samples looked green and full of chloroplasts to me so I thought it had escaped RR's effects. He immediately saw a chaotic chloroplast pattern that he ID'd as fatally damaged which escaped me entirely.

In this environment, the sodium citrate they've added becomes citric acid which acts as a protein reducing agent not unlike the carbonic acid in the soda.

Basically, leaving citrate salts along with carbonate salts but both denature protein similarly. When I tested the salts, the magnesium from the algae far exceeded the others such that we didn't elect to identify them. 

In a sense, it actually intensifies the action. I may be wrong but there seems to be far too little citric acid to be a component in this action, but we may be surprised!

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Greenwater results

I added 2.5 mL of carbonated water to each 5mL sample of greenwater.

One of my original cultures was taken over by rotifers and some other unknown microorganisms.PXL_20220701_191335905.jpg.cbaf883379a0c9a02b0ae72c2818146d.jpgPXL_20220701_191131308.jpg.bd7f41b26e97da22295aff9c38cdee37.jpgPXL_20220701_192708455_exported_stabilized_1656704829338.gif.92b56201d2106f05e60b5d4dbb385a75.gif

In the sample I added carbonated water, there were no longer any of them in sight. The microalgae all looked unaffected. PXL_20220701_193607445_exported_stabilized_1656704848919.gif.19f7b39c0459ccf54224576d022691de.gifPXL_20220701_194431758.jpg.908825e0c56261270d2374168f656120.jpgPXL_20220701_193148279.jpg.d41d6502b6697a9e1de5dc2376793c7c.jpgPXL_20220701_193048967.jpg.104488a98a30a84bab363b79cb0e6fad.jpg

 

Edited by modified lung
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