Jungle Fan Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 @Scott P. Sorry I couldn't resist. I've always calculated them as less, sort of like the snails. They do figure into the overall picture just not like fish 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streetwise Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 We all know that that there is no rule, but it is fun to think of formulae. I just relearned the scientific plural of formula. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle Fan Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 @Streetwise exactly! As @Patrick_Gsaid the one inch rule is sort of hokey but for beginners it's something they can hang on to until they get more experienced. This might sort of sound hokey as well but with time and experience you get a feel for what sort of bio-load is acceptable for the size and type of tank you have set up. Just like sometimes you look at a tank and although you don't know what it is but you know that there is something wrong even without having investigated it yet. @hopeful1 I would use the rule as a beginner, post what your tank will look like, filtration, aeration, plants and what you would like to stock it with and ask on the forum for help. You will undoubtedly get different recommendations, but there usually will be some sort of consensus and you can go from there, you might get answers that it's understocked, or overstocked but in general opinions are usually not that far apart, we all love fish and plants, and love to help the forum community. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 I’m reading this at Lowe’s. Going to post a video when I get home. I’ll let you try the math on fish per gallon… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Streetwise Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 Please also try fish mass v plant mass. Substrate surface area might be another variable, as well as filter foam and media surface area. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 When you do a lot of breeding, you often have to shatter rules-of-thumb. Here’s two examples. 350+ fish in 55 gal, and 75+ fish in 33 gal. Weekly water changes. Lots of plants. Lots of sponge filtration. Let’s me try to explain… And… 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle Fan Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 @Fish Folk I love your tanks. Did I run overstocked tanks when I was breeding guppies? Is water wet? I also had my tanks chock full of plants, was running multiple airstones, had sponge filters galore, and did multiple water changes per week. Would I recommend it to someone new to the hobby as their first tank experience, in addition to possibly learning about water parameters, tests, ferts, what plants will go with what lights, and how much, and what to feed - no. I think it's nice to get an idea first what it takes to balance all the variables and achieve a stable and sustainable tank before you get down to pushing the envelope with a maintenance intensive tank but then again maybe it's just me. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 On 8/8/2021 at 12:28 AM, Jungle Fan said: @Fish Folk I love your tanks. Did I run overstocked tanks when I was breeding guppies? Is water wet? I also had my tanks chock full of plants, was running multiple airstones, had sponge filters galore, and did multiple water changes per week. Would I recommend it to someone new to the hobby as their first tank experience, in addition to possibly learning about water parameters, tests, ferts, what plants will go with what lights, and how much, and what to feed - no. I think it's nice to get an idea first what it takes to balance all the variables and achieve a stable and sustainable tank before you get down to pushing the envelope with a maintenance intensive tank but then again maybe it's just me. Quite agreed for beginners! It’s good to know that rules can sometimes be effectively broken. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sudofish Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 I don't follow the inch per gallon rule. Assuming filtration won't be an issue I look at the kind of fish going in. Do they like to do zoomies back and forth all day like rainbowfish? Then I want a longer tank. For angelfish I'd want a tank that is tall as well. I don't like to do the minimum size for anything. Just because a fish "can" go in a certain tank doesn't make it a good fit imo. I could put an oscar in a 20 long and keep up with maintenance. That doesn't mean it will be a happy fish in that tank. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanked Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 On 8/7/2021 at 3:49 PM, hopeful1 said: Is there some rule to determine the maximum number of fish per gallon, based on their current size? Short answer: no, there are too many variables. What about their size next year? I would consider their potential future size as your first consideration. ie: The one inch rule implies that my 75gal. will hold 45-75 TFBs today. If they reach their average max size, the number is 8. The others have given you some solid information. Start with the less is more approach. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakota Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 (edited) I have a 65g tank running an fx4 filter, Good surface agitation, CO2 Injected, Medium planted. ~30 neons 10 BA Tetras 5 Corydoras ~5-10 assassin snails. Would love to add 2 or 3 GBR's. Does anyone here think that it would be viable to do that? @Fish Folk Edited August 9, 2021 by Dakota Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HH Morant Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Bio-load is a lot more dependent on the weight of the fish than its length. A 2-inch fish is not just twice as big as a 1-inch fish. There are 3 dimensions, and length is just one of them. If the two-inch fish is twice as big in all three dimensions, it is 8 times as big as a 1-inch fish. So if you can have 80 one-inch fish in your aquarium, that doesn't mean you can have 40 two-inch fish. Generally, I think drastic over-filtration is what allows over-stocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 On 8/9/2021 at 1:32 PM, Dakota said: I have a 65g tank running an fx4 filter, Good surface agitation, CO2 Injected, Medium planted. ~30 neons 10 BA Tetras 5 Corydoras ~5-10 assassin snails. Would love to add 2 or 3 GBR's. Does anyone here think that it would be viable to do that? @Fish Folk Fully grown, EBAs will likely eat your neons. In the morning, at first light, neons are drowsy . . . easy pickings for Acaras. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakota Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 On 8/9/2021 at 2:42 PM, Fish Folk said: Fully grown, EBAs will likely eat your neons. In the morning, at first light, neons are drowsy . . . easy pickings for Acaras. German Blue Rams? i read they were ok with Neons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 On 8/9/2021 at 2:46 PM, Dakota said: German Blue Rams? i read they were ok with Neons 😂 sorry… I totally misread. GBRs are FIBE with neons… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakota Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 On 8/9/2021 at 3:13 PM, Fish Folk said: 😂 sorry… I totally misread. GBRs are FIBE with neons… Good that is my dream fish for my tank but im probably gonna wait a month or 2 before i put them in so my tank can stabilize a bit and plants grow out some more. I recently changed the substrate to Fluval Stratum so, i want to see what a constant is with this substrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle Fan Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 The only thing that can be a problem with keeping Neon Tetras with German Blue Rams that I've seen is the temperature range. Neons tend to like 72-78 degrees Fahrenheit, GBRs 78 - 85 degrees Fahrenheit, not saying I haven't seen them being kept together but in my experience GBRs really don't like the lower range too much, and the Neons their upper. I tried it twice and the results were discouraging. However when I kept them in my 83F discus tank GBRs were doing fine. Bolivian rams are better suited for the Neon temp range in my opinion but my guess would be it's the colors that attract you to the GBRs, so the Bolivians probably won't be any consolation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 On 8/9/2021 at 3:40 PM, Jungle Fan said: The only thing that can be a problem with keeping Neon Tetras with German Blue Rams that I've seen is the temperature range. Neons tend to like 72-78 degrees Fahrenheit, GBRs 78 - 85 degrees Fahrenheit, not saying I haven't seen them being kept together but in my experience GBRs really don't like the lower range too much, and the Neons their upper. I tried it twice and the results were discouraging. However when I kept them in my 83F discus tank GBRs were doing fine. Bolivian rams are better suited for the Neon temp range in my opinion but my guess would be it's the colors that attract you to the GBRs, so the Bolivians probably won't be any consolation. Good tip! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevesFishTanks Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Similar to Fish Folk I thought I would share one of my "overstocked" tanks 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakota Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 On 8/9/2021 at 3:40 PM, Jungle Fan said: The only thing that can be a problem with keeping Neon Tetras with German Blue Rams that I've seen is the temperature range. Neons tend to like 72-78 degrees Fahrenheit, GBRs 78 - 85 degrees Fahrenheit, not saying I haven't seen them being kept together but in my experience GBRs really don't like the lower range too much, and the Neons their upper. I tried it twice and the results were discouraging. However when I kept them in my 83F discus tank GBRs were doing fine. Bolivian rams are better suited for the Neon temp range in my opinion but my guess would be it's the colors that attract you to the GBRs, so the Bolivians probably won't be any consolation. So, that being said my tank is currently at 82 degrees prepping for GBRs. What would happen to the Neons if i kept them with the GBRs in that temperature? Will there be a mass death or would they become aggressive? And the bolivian rams are pretty but not as pretty as the GBR's. I would be willing to swap so i can avoid future headaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefty o Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 may as well toss in my 2 cents worth. the 1" per gallon is a great rule of thumb for absolute newbies to the hobby (there was a time before filters etc that it was more applicable). 1" per gallon for a newbie will help to keep them out of trouble while they are learning, and their tank is establishing itself. beyond that, X amount of fish per gallon is just people talking out their rear trying to sound important. can you maintain good water quality, and can the fish move around freely are much more important. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppysnail Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 (edited) On 8/11/2021 at 9:58 AM, Dakota said: So, that being said my tank is currently at 82 degrees prepping for GBRs. What would happen to the Neons if i kept them with the GBRs in that temperature? Will there be a mass death or would they become aggressive? And the bolivian rams are pretty but not as pretty as the GBR's. I would be willing to swap so i can avoid future headaches. My nieces tank resided with me for 6 months during her move. She ran 80 degrees.school of neon. I seen no noticeable affects. Edited August 11, 2021 by Guppysnail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakota Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 On 8/11/2021 at 10:17 AM, Guppysnail said: My nieces tank resided with me for 6 months during her move. She ran 80 degrees.school of neon. I seen no noticeable affects. Im gonna start a new thread because this has gotten way off topic lol @Fish Folk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jungle Fan Posted August 11, 2021 Share Posted August 11, 2021 (edited) On 8/11/2021 at 7:58 AM, Dakota said: So, that being said my tank is currently at 82 degrees prepping for GBRs. What would happen to the Neons if i kept them with the GBRs in that temperature? Will there be a mass death or would they become aggressive? And the bolivian rams are pretty but not as pretty as the GBR's. I would be willing to swap so i can avoid future headaches. At first nothing would probably happen but with the slightest additional variation that can cause stress, or an introduction of any kind of pathogen that the Neons normally could deal with easily you might see a mass die off. Temperatures fish aren't used to living in cause stress, stress suppresses their immune system, and a suppressed immune system can't fight off what the fish could otherwise easily overcome. All living organisms react individually different so it's unreasonable to proclaim that will happen in any given instance but in general you can rely on the fact that it has been observed by a multitude of fishkeepers through the years that regular Neon Tetras don't do well above 78F, that's how all these books we pay good money for get written. I know that some think Neon Tetras are one of the hardier fish but in my experience they aren't nearly as hardy as the Cardinal Tetras which will be right at home and fine in an aquarium with GBRs and discus. Edited August 11, 2021 by Jungle Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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