KentFishFanUK

This sounds like it might be genius but I can't picture what it is exactly, what is plastic craft canvas?

I feed algae wafers but I've never seen them eating them. Haven't tried vegetables, is algae not enough then? There's lots of it in there and their bellies always looked nice and rounded.

So as of this morning two out of three of my Otocinclus have died 😢 I know Oto's ate notorious for it but even so I thought they were doing ok, they've been in for about 5 weeks already. After the first one died a couple weeks ago I was worried about the smaller of the remaining two, though they always had round bellies and constantly grazing (I leave lots of algae for them - I'm not just lazy honest) it didn't seem to be growing and was very slender aside from its belly so I was half expecting it. I have high hopes for the remaining one as it's the only one of the three that has grown noticeably and is chonky all over not just a round belly, thing is do I risk adding more? Don't want to keep one on its own but don't want to keep killing them either. I will test parameters again later today but last time everything was the same as usual and both times there was no obvious sign of illness or injury. Any oto experts around?

Algae outbreak?! What algae? Man my tank has more algae than this permanently let alone when I get an outbreak haha personally I think your tank looks amazing and a little bit of algae adds to the affect. Otocinclus are my favourite algae eaters, they don't really eat hair or black beard algae but they do a good job of keeping surfaces in my tank, especially and most importantly my plant leaves, clean. Will Pea puffers bully oto's? I had considered putting some in with my hypothetical pea puffer colony as shrimp and snails would just be dinner right.

You sound very much like me, years of interest and research before I even bought my first tank but I think we are probably in the minority there, especially as many first timers are kids. I even started in March too! Wait did I drunk post that and forget about it... nope not me haha. I tend to research any new hobbies obsessively, in fact research is a huge part of the hobbies for me. I'm also inclined to agree about the gatekeeping, what I often see I'm not sure I would even call gatekeeping, more well intentioned but perhaps overwhelming information/advice. I'm guilty of it myself when trying to explain fishless cycles and things - usually online but the few times I've discussed it in person you can almost see eyes glazing over and words going straight out of the opposite ear - so personally I think we just need to keep our advice simple and extremely basic for first timers, just enough for them to get a good first experience. Sort of how @Cory complains about canister filters, not because there's anything wrong with them per se but because they are simply expensive and often unnecessary, especially for beginners, yet you often see them recommended anyway. I would go as far as saying even some of the things we consider essential are too much. Do we really think the average 12 year old first time aquarist is going to buy API testing kits and start testing their tap water? I'm 33 and I just barely understand pH/KH/GH etc. Not to mention the years of research we did, most people will lose their enthusiasm before even buying a fish if they went that route and that means less people in the hobby. I think we just need to be able to say - to start, use products a,b,c and put in a couple of x fish and come back when you are ready to dive in and learn more! Something simple, cheap and relatively foolproof that would work with a range of source water parameters. Off the top of my head something like: 1. Cheap gravel and crushed coral substrate 2. Cheap sponge filter and preset heater 3. Seachem Prime and Stability 4. No more than 3 guppies, throw in some guppy grass, feed with a small pinch of flakes daily 5. Once a week use a jug to remove some of the water and replace with new tap water and dose again with prime and stability Optional: come back when you're hooked and learn all about the whys and how's and where to go from there.

The only thing I can think of is that adding that many fish in two weeks is a little quick, I was told to add one small group at a time and wait at least a week between groups. With no ammonia spike though I'm not sure how that could cause a problem, maybe it just stresses them out like someone else suggested? Even with waiting 1+ weeks between adding each group of fish I still had unexplained deaths, lost one out of almost every new batch of fish, I never worked out why and luckily for me it never affected the rest of the group (or the individuals I replaced them with). Each time they had seemed fine, swimming and eating normally for days or weeks until one morning they were just dead (or in one case, disappeared entirely) I know I should have quarantined each new group I just don't have the space or set up to do it (yet) so I totally understand your situation - I'm guessing you might be from the UK too? I think quarantining is much less common here. Hope it works out for you! Keep me posted

This is amazing! Would love to read it when done and offer feedback ("yay I'm helping" ☺️). You'd most likely find that writing it for that age would inadvertently create a good guide for adult beginners anyway.

Agreed! Sticky section for 'beginner FAQs' would be a great start, somewhere to point new hobbyists towards

The cup collection sounds easy enough, genius! When would you collect them? After they hatch or as eggs? I'd probably leave some for dad to take care of so I don't feel too bad haha. I don't really want to start a infusoria culture that I may never need so will have to try squeezing the sponge out. Or thinking about it I have a chunk of lava rock randomly sitting in my tank for some reason - that would probably have infusoria on it right?

Update just because: After like a month of never seeing more than two at a time (the same two at that) and one time spotting a third which gave me hope - yesterday I had 5 out all at the same time! Had to count them twice just to make sure haha! So at least 5 of the original 8 is still there. No idea where they have been hiding I looked everywhere. And one of them was berried! I have hope yet!

In my experience as a newbie this year just because it's an independent local fish store doesn't mean they have a clue! Everyone has their own experience and prejudices etc and perhaps your store isn't particularly familiar with fishless cycling. Based on what you described your tank should be ready for fish and I don't see how they can suggest your whole plan is a bad idea, it's a very good plan! Sounds like they might be getting a bit defensive about their fish dying really. Like someone else touched on there's other things you can do to help reduce stress on new fish, turning lights off and keeping things quiet and stuff like that - I can't offer any advice with treating Ich etc though I have no experience of it yet. Maybe try the hatchet fish first next time see if they do better? (The cynic in me says maybe try a different store too but it's probably not really their fault either just one of those things) I think we all lose newly added fish from time to time, since I started my tank 6ish months ago I've lost an endler, a panda cory, a hillstream loach and an otocinclus. Almost one of each group of fish I've added I've lost and I don't even know why any of them died as nothing obvious and I've just been lucky the rest have survived so far. Don't give up!

@Hobbit just read through your thread about breeding yours, they are so cute! Looks a lot of fun too I hope I get the chance. Just so I'm forewarned I did think of a couple of questions - how do you collect the newborn fry to put into a breeder box? And what could you do about providing infusoria if you don't already have a culture going? Also I'm thinking I may have to get myself one of those macro lenses lol.

Duly noted! Though I keep telling people (myself mostly 😅) that I'm not intending to breed anything yet of course I'm secretly hoping eggs appear one day and then I'll go into full on panic about how to save them from my tetras and raise them somehow so I'll definitely be after your advice haha. So, thanks!

This is a great thread/topic so kudos for starting it. People who want to start a tank for the first time because they have seen them elsewhere and been inspired or seen the fish and get excited to try it etc will always need help/advice and I think it's important to strike a balance between curbing their expectations without curbing their enthusiasm. Of course being friendly and giving good advice is a given as well. Perhaps us Nerms should think up and promote a 'beginner tank and method' to recommend to interested parties - something as cheap, fool proof, easy and quick as possible to give them a taste for it before they get bombarded with the whole "well you need to know about the nitrogen cycle/pH/testing kits/GH and KH/TDS/med trios/active substrates and don't even think of getting a fish for 6+ weeks and don't forget to quarantine and have you chosen which $300 canister filter you want yet or are you going full on Walstad?" I'm sure we could come up with an agreed upon easy to understand and cheap set up/starting method - we could call it "the Nerm method" and promote it every where we can and suck in some new hobbyists haha!

I've had them for about three weeks now and the store had only just got them in when I got them so they probably are still quite young! I did notice today when taking photos what could be the start of a small bubble nest, maybe he's practicing? 😂 You never know I might be hitting you up one day about how to save and raise honey gourami fry before they get eaten haha Edit: oh and your newly assigned role of 'honey-and-other-dwarf-gouramis' expert is regrettably non-negotiable 🤣I wish I could say there was benefits over and above my gratitude but well just ask @Odd Duck aka the 'pea-puffer-and-parrot-and-various-other-aspects-of-the-hobby' expert 😅

@laritheloud Ok so home now and checking your instructions I'm now pretty sure that one is male and the other female (fingers crossed!) but expert confirmation would be greatly appreciated ☺️ Here is the one I think is male: And here is the one I think is female: The pics don't show it but the first one is bigger

Well as far as I can tell it's getting darker not lighter but then it could be younger than the other given the size difference. Fingers crossed I have one male one female!

Thanks! Ok so my small one definitely looks like your wild type female but more yellow, or your gold female but less orange on the fins (I think). So still not conclusive haha! Will be better to show you the pics when I can maybe. Do male gold honeys get that stripe along their side? Is it right that females should be bigger?

So far I've only used tetra min flakes (they came with my tank haha) which my fish like and hikari micro pellets which they go for as well. I can't get xtreme foods here yet but I want to try some of the fish science flake foods which look good.

Not just distinction - also sexual dimorphism please! 😂 I'm having trouble sexing my two honey gouramis! Keep looking up the differences and none of the explanations seem to make sense for my two! You've already mentioned a few bits that I've not even seen mentioned elsewhere and it doesn't help that mine are gold ones I think and most 'guides' don't seem to make the distinction between the different colour morphs as far as sexing them goes. If you don't mind I will send you a picture of mine tomorrow (in my mind you are now our resident honey gourami expert 😅) when I get home from work but for now I'll try to describe - I have one which I'm pretty sure is male and looks like the males pictured above, and one smaller one that seems to be the same fin and body shape and is almost as brightly coloured (not quite) but with a dark stripe down the length and almost a faint shade in places. From some guides the smaller one could be female but I've also read the female should be bigger and different shape body/fins so I'm at a loss! Either of them could be either. Also the big one seems to have developed a dark stripe on his/her ventral (?) fin.

Seconded! (Thirded?) Tends to be my go to as well, very comprehensive and useful information sheets on each species. Not often I can't find what I need on there.

🤦‍♂️ I didn't have a clue! I don't think it was his own forum I saw him posting on though so maybe he is/was active on other forums as well. BRB going to join another forum... 😄 Edit: found the post, was on planted tank.net - but was from 2003 haha!

I've done the spreading on rocks trick but only with the soilent green, might have to get the super green next and try that!

Thanks @Zenzo! Looking forward to it, thanks for keeping us posted, started watching it earlier and the audio makes some parts hard to watch, which is a shame because the content is great! Be good to persuade Tom Barr to the forum if he isn't already? Occasionally whilst googling questions about plants and algae old posts on other forums come up with posts from the man himself, is he one of us yet? 😂

I've only tried the soilent green (so far, they have too many good options!) but my panda cories absolutely love it, they swarm it until it's gone. My neon tetras like to hover above them and snatch up the little pieces as they float off. Now I just need to find one that my Otocinclus will go for!