SZ Discus and Aquariums

[FrozenFins]

@Brandy no need to apologise

Perhaps we should tag @Cory or @Dean’s Fishroom 

[Stephen Zawacki]

I’m sorry my previous questions were disappearing where I was not able to see them that is why. Thank you for all the great info.

[AquaAggie]

4 hours ago, Stephen Zawacki said:

I’m sorry my previous questions were disappearing where I was not able to see them that is why. Thank you for all the great info.

@Stephen Zawacki go the top of the page and click the 3 horizontal lines in the right hand corner (on a mobile browser at least) Click “Forum activity”, click “my activity streams”, click “content I started”. Then you can find any post you started. You can use other options as needed.

I’d be lying if I didn’t get excited when @Cory responded to one of my posts but the man is busy And can’t personally answer everybody. There are lots of very active people on here with great information. Good luck!

[Stephen Zawacki]

They are always swimming together just trying to find out if they are male and female and they are always right next two each other one seems a little bigger than the other any help is great.

Their Very active, and them and 3 panda garas are in a 40B I'm in college so that is the max tank size I can have will they be fine in there for three years and could the two discus get to full growth and live comfortably.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Stephen Zawacki

[Daniel]

It is generally impossible to sex young discus.

Large male discus might develop a pointy dorsal fin over time. Males are often a bit large than females, but not always.

The only conclusive way I have for sexing my discus is while watching them breed. Invariably the one laying the eggs is the female. And I am not being sarcastic as that is the most reliable way to sex your discus.

[Stephen Zawacki]

So I have two discus one is a larger and the other is smaller I thought they were a pair, but today they were fighting, and the bigger ones tail has some tears in it. And possible some on his side fins hard to tell.  Is there a way to heal them? Any help great I am going to trade in the one for another.

[Fish Folk]

Beautiful! I'd suggest you keep a group of at least 6 discus together. This will help to spread out any aggression. They do occasionally get rips in fins. Make sure your water quality is excellent so that no infection develops. They do like water warm. We keep ours at about 870degrees Fahrenheit. They will become the best version of themselves if fed clean, healthy black worms. @Daniel has enjoyed keeping lots of discus over the years, and can provide valuable insights. The roomies below are all in a 55 gal. 

[Stephen Zawacki]

How many could I fit in a 40 breeder I’m in college so tank size is limited? They would also have to be in there for 2 to 3 years max?
 

[Stephen Zawacki]

I had two large discus that I got that were constantly fighting. I returned them and got 4 babies of the same species. I have a 40 breeder heavy planted could 4 babies and 3 panda garas work for 2 years to 3 max.  My goal is to get a breeding pair and take the others back or could I keep all four and the pandas. I'm In college so 40 b is the max till I'm out water perameters are perfect also.  I will be taking the drift wood out and put in rocks for more space. And info is great thx. Could anyone give any incite that would be great thankyou. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Stephen Zawacki

[Fish Folk]

I'd love to hear from others on this. I agree with something Cory mentioned in his recent stream, that stocking limits are relative to how well you keep / upkeep / maintain your aquarium. While Discus are notoriously "difficult," we find that ours are really not that much more challenging to keep than other South American cichlids as long as they have clean water, warm temperatures (ca. 87 degrees F is what ours are happy at), a balanced diet, and a community set up that keeps down aggression. Discus can take to sparring a fair bit if there are only two of them. Once we got our six discus into one tank, that dispersed enough so that no one was really getting bullied. In my opinion (don't tell the internet!) a small group of discus can be kept in a 40 gal breeder for this period of time, provided that water quality and maintenance is kept up. Their slime coating renders them especially susceptible to infections, which is why they really appreciate water changes and non-aggressive tank mates. There are, of course, certain ailments unique to discus that will come up . . . but that is unavoidable, regardless of how they are housed. I think that buying them young is very good. They will grow reasonably quickly -- I think @Daniel has somewhere described them reaching adult size in a relatively short period of time -- but as long as you keep them happy, you're good to go. Ideally, I'd love to see Discus kept in a 75 gal. We're setting up a new 75 gal here soon . . . probably going to include a "gaggle" of Discus and other Amazon fish.

[Stephen Zawacki]

Ok thankyou for all the info if kept in the 40b for 2 to 3 years max that would not inhibit them getting to max size.

[Daniel]

@Fish Folk speaks the truth. Stocking limits are dependent on so many variables as to be almost useless. It is like asking how much money do you need to be happy? If my memory is correct Jack Wattley the legendary discus breeder kept his breeding pairs in 20 gallon high aquariums. Jack was very successful not because of the size of his aquariums, but because of his dedication to very clean (and very warm) water and good diet.

@Stephen Zawacki mentions that his water parameters are perfect, but leaves unsaid what he means by 'perfect'. I think his focus on tank volume is somewhat misplaced. I would have greater hope for the long term growth and happiness of his discus if more of the focus were on the factors critical to discus well being beyond tank size.

3 minutes ago, Stephen Zawacki said:

Ok thankyou for all the info if kept in the 40b for 2 to 3 years max that would not inhibit them getting to max size.

One way to deal with the 'max size' issue would be to keep fewer discus in the aquarium, say 1 discus. If the goal is to have a 'max size' male and female pair in a 40 gallon breeder the easiest solution would be to purchase an adult breeding pair of discus. If the goal is to raise a group of small discus up in the existing 40 gallon breeder in hopes of a getting a mated pair, then focus should be on water quality and diet.

 

[Stephen Zawacki]

WhAt I mean by perfect parameters is that I use the api test kit and every single test is perfect.  My goal is to raise these little guys up and get a pair. 

[Daniel]

11 minutes ago, Stephen Zawacki said:

WhAt I mean by perfect parameters is that I use the api test kit and every single test is perfect.  My goal is to raise these little guys up and get a pair. 

Raising a group of young discus up is definitely my preferred method, and is the most fun.

@Stephen Zawacki What tests do you perform and what results do you get?

[gardenman]

If you watch a lot of YouTube videos on discus breeding you'll find that many/most breeders keep their breeding pairs in very small tanks. This gives the fry less room to wander off and get lost, but also seems to suit the parents who happily breed in such conditions. A 40 breeder should be fine for a small group of younger discus as long as you're able to maintain the water quality. As to maximum size, growth seems more controlled by food than tank size. If you feed them they will grow. The more you feed the harder it is to maintain good water quality, but food more controls growth than water volume. 

Those who wish to raise monster koi (or monster fish in general) tend to "overfeed" their fish to get maximum size from them. Some koi fanciers rig up self-feeders for their koi where the koi simply needs to nudge a bar or float and pellets will be dispensed. These people grow monster koi. They need massive biofiltration, but that's how you get big fish. If a fish is eating it's using the food for something and that something is typically growth.

I raised a baby arowana many years ago (maybe 40+ years now?) and I gave it unlimited food. (500 feeder guppies were put into its tank before it got introduced and then later endless feeder goldfish when it got big enough to take them) and it grew like crazy. Within a year it was over 18" long and still growing like mad. I treated a butterfly koi similarly (just not feeder fish, but nearly endless other food) and it was easily over 18" in ten months. Food controls growth. More food equals more growth. The only issue is more food also equals more waste and more potential water quality issues. If you can handle the water quality issues, then feed the fish like crazy and you'll get the growth you want. 

Some "experts" say people overfeed their fish. Nope. Not in most cases. Wardley had their Sandman filter a few years back and it had filter pad issues. When talking with one of their engineers/designers about the issue they were shocked that I was feeding my fish three and four times a day. According to them, the filter was designed to handle one small feeding every two to three days and anything more than that was overburdening the filter. When I pointed out their own fish food said to feed three or more times daily they had no good answer. As a rule, especially with younger fish, more food equals more growth. If you keep your discus well fed, they'll grow to their maximum potential size regardless of what size tank they're in.

[anewbie]

I would think after the first year they will be room constrained. A full size discus can get up to 8 inches which doesn't leave a lot of room in a 40B due to lack of height.  Also you said your water is 'perfect' but that seems a novice explanation of the quality of your water. There are a lot of factors beyond nitrate, nitrite and ammonia that determines the quality of the water and therefore i would question the 'perfect' nature of your water. Having said that it might turn out fine.

[Stephen Zawacki]

Hi I’m in college and have a 40 breeder now everyone know the dimensions of a 40 breeder. If I upgrade to a 60 gallon the dimensions are 48 wide 12 in deep 25 high. Would that be better because I have  4 discus and 3 panda garas.

[lefty o]

the panda's wont much care, but the discus might enjoy a taller tank.

[Stephen Zawacki]

Would the discus be fine with a shallower tank but taller?

[Daniel]

On 4/6/2021 at 7:12 PM, Stephen Zawacki said:

I had two large discus that I got that were constantly fighting. I returned them and got 4 babies of the same species. I have a 40 breeder heavy planted could 4 babies and 3 panda garas work for 2 years to 3 max.  My goal is to get a breeding pair and take the others back or could I keep all four and the pandas. I'm In college so 40 b is the max till I'm out water perameters are perfect also.  I will be taking the drift wood out and put in rocks for more space. And info is great thx. Could anyone give any incite that would be great thankyou. 

Probably more important to the discus than tank size is water quality. Do you test for water quality. If so, what are the results?

[Stephen Zawacki]

Well my biggest concern is will they still have room because 12 inches deep in a tank in different than a 40 b. The dimensions for tbe 60 is 48 long 12 deep 25 high. So if I did that could they be better off 4 discus and 3 panda garas. With it 12 inches deep would that be enough for them to grow. I'm not in town but my parameters are perfect.

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, Stephen Zawacki said:

 but my parameters are perfect.

How do you test? What numbers did you get when you tested last?

[Stephen Zawacki]

Well I don't know off the top of my head, because I'm out of state. But the tank dimensions for the 60 gallon is that a fine tank size for discus to grow full size, and I know that it is about food and parameters. But the tank dimensions I specified above are those good for discus. And is the 12 deep good.

[Daniel]

@Stephen Zawacki here is my concern. One the primary duties when keeping discus is maintaining good water quality, and I beginning to think that discus may not be the fish for you at this time. I could be wrong.

Someone ready for discus likely remembers what their water parameters are. I am not saying there are perfect parameters when it comes to discus because discus are successfully raised in a variety of conditions.

Discus growth will depend on water and food of good quality.

[Stephen Zawacki]

Well I can tell you this I test my water every two weeks and do weekly water changes. My local family fish store that sold me the discus said that thye only sell the discus to people that take care of their fish and have good quality of water they did all the tests and every test in the master api kit that I used and they used are perfect parameters for the discus. I take very great care of my animals all I was wondering was if I got the 60 gallon, and that would give them more space. Since the 40 breeder is deeper, and tbe 60 is 12 deep but 25 tall would the tall be better rather than depth.