Reverse Respiration

[dasaltemelosguy]

@Guppysnail mentioned the marimos. These seemed to evade the caustic effects. However, we found repeated treatments for 3 days and it succumbed. What was wild was it visible appeared completely unaffected until Day-3 and it literally drained empty in real time as soon as the 3rd application of seltzer was applied. 

In fact, it occurred so quickly after the 3rd bath I didn't have enough time to capture the administration of the seltzer to the slide. But here's the 90s video: Marimo Reverse Respiration Day-3

I imagine as the forum tests the process further, we'll see many more exceptions and adjustments. So far, it's all in the timing. Much more to discover. 

[modified lung]

Treated on the left

Untreated on the right

 

Rotala 

Ambulia 

Bocapa 

Four Leaf Clover 

Weeping Moss 

[modified lung]

On 7/1/2022 at 12:42 PM, Guppysnail said:

@modified lungDid the guppy grass have any activity even very slow within it? 
Also I’m curious what they look like after a day or so in tank water

The treated guppy Grass looks completely still to me. The untreated might have some extremely slow movement going on.

 

[Guppysnail]

@modified lung thank you so much for all this work. It is awesome to have a community of folks to work with on things like this. 

[Torrey]

On 7/1/2022 at 10:06 AM, modified lung said:

@Guppysnail what are the ingredients in the great value seltzer water? The grocery store near me had two different options. One had high fructose corn syrup and the other had sodium citrate. I wasn't sure if the corn syrup would be the best idea and idk what sodium citrate does. I chose the sodium citrate option. What do you think is better? Or maybe neither of them are great?

I bought plain seltzer "carbonated water" is listed as the only ingredient?

 

I'm ORD for all the images, and drooling a bit of Nerm appreciation for your microscope. Those are *really* clear images!

[modified lung]

On 7/1/2022 at 3:17 PM, Torrey said:

Those are *really* clear images!

I bought a refurbished Google Pixel 5 for the camera. It doesn't give you manual mode which is a pain sometimes. But other than that it takes really good photos. Then I just have a basic $80 microscope from AmScope.

[Torrey]

@modified lungthank you!!

[Odd Duck]

On 7/1/2022 at 1:54 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

I've considered the Pepsi Challenge, or even Doing the Dew, despite wanting to Be a Pepper too. But everyone knows Things Go Better with Coke! Upon further consideration, I may have given the plants diabetes!

Terrible jokes aside (sorry for the recycled humor @Odd Duck!), I've had to use club soda a couple of times when there was no seltzer available, and I never noticed any difference in the outcome nor the chemistry. The salts are neutral, so I'd only be concerned about sugars as they're a potential energy source. But there doesn't seem to be enough additive to affect the outcomes that we've tested.

I just RR'ed a bunch of Amazon Swords and we used lime club soda because we drank what we didn't use!

I didn’t Dew any pictures on the plants I treated with the diet Dr. Pepper but there didn’t seem to be any adverse affects, so hopefully there being a Dr. in the house didn’t cause any problems.  😆 

The SodaStream is here along with flavors, so if I can, I will run some tests on some Wolffia that I’ve been dying to clear.  I’ve got a bunch of different, cool mosses in one tank that has a Wolffia issue despite having some endlers in there as clean up crew.  The endlers have aged out of the equation, unfortunately.  I have some guppy fry that I may try in that tank but I need to reset that tank anyway, so I need to figure out if I can nuke the Wolffia without nuking my wonderful mosses and susswassertang in that tank.  I’ve got enough of each to be able to risk sections of it.

My schedule is taking a turn this next week and I live far enough from work that it isn’t handy to run there on a day off just to put things under the microscope.  But I have plenty of snack size zip bags and a sharpie to label things.  I even have a home sealer so I could make compartments in the zip bags for treated on one side and untreated on the other.

It might be time to get a scope for home.  I’ve always loved microscope work.  I’ll see if I can get enough Wolffia collected to run meaningful tests.  I don’t have loads of it anymore, but should be enough for some testing.  The trick is even the smallest amount surviving will let it come roaring back if I can’t get these plants and mosses cleaned.  It’s even worse than nerm glitter for being “contagious” from tank to tank because it’s the size of fine glitter.

[Ken Burke]

On 7/2/2022 at 7:18 AM, Odd Duck said:

I didn’t Dew any pictures on the plants I treated with the diet Dr. Pepper but there didn’t seem to be any adverse affects, so hopefully there being a Dr. in the house didn’t cause any problems.  😆 

The SodaStream is here along with flavors, so if I can, I will run some tests on some Wolffia that I’ve been dying to clear.  I’ve got a bunch of different, cool mosses in one tank that has a Wolffia issue despite having some endlers in there as clean up crew.  The endlers have aged out of the equation, unfortunately.  I have some guppy fry that I may try in that tank but I need to reset that tank anyway, so I need to figure out if I can nuke the Wolffia without nuking my wonderful mosses and susswassertang in that tank.  I’ve got enough of each to be able to risk sections of it.

My schedule is taking a turn this next week and I live far enough from work that it isn’t handy to run there on a day off just to put things under the microscope.  But I have plenty of snack size zip bags and a sharpie to label things.  I even have a home sealer so I could make compartments in the zip bags for treated on one side and untreated on the other.

It might be time to get a scope for home.  I’ve always loved microscope work.  I’ll see if I can get enough Wolffia collected to run meaningful tests.  I don’t have loads of it anymore, but should be enough for some testing.  The trick is even the smallest amount surviving will let it come roaring back if I can’t get these plants and mosses cleaned.  It’s even worse than nerm glitter for being “contagious” from tank to tank because it’s the size of fine glitter.

Does using Dr Pepper count as a consult?  

[Odd Duck]

On 7/2/2022 at 7:40 AM, Ken Burke said:

Does using Dr Pepper count as a consult?  

Well, it was diet so maybe the consultation fee will be discounted?

[Guppysnail]

@Odd Duck I was fortunate that @dasaltemelosguy helped me find a very good amscope with 4 lenses 2 viewfinder eye things (I’m certain that’s not what they are called) and a camera that plugs to a laptop. It was not used but it was open box so heavily discounted to only $130. It was EBay and there were quite a few choices available much less expensive than buying direct. 
I play more than I actually get work done though 🤣. I’m learning to use the 2 bigger lenses but still pretty inept. The camera I never could focus or even find things with the higher lenses. 

[Odd Duck]

On 7/2/2022 at 8:01 AM, Guppysnail said:

@Odd Duck I was fortunate that @dasaltemelosguy helped me find a very good amscope with 4 lenses 2 viewfinder eye things (I’m certain that’s not what they are called) and a camera that plugs to a laptop. It was not used but it was open box so heavily discounted to only $130. It was EBay and there were quite a few choices available much less expensive than buying direct. 
I play more than I actually get work done though 🤣. I’m learning to use the 2 bigger lenses but still pretty inept. The camera I never could focus or even find things with the higher lenses. 

That would be my concern with buying used, is things not working right.  I find as I get older I am extremely intolerant of equipment that doesn’t work like it should.  Ain’t nobody got time for that here!  After using high quality microscopes daily for decades, I’m afraid something of lower quality would make me bonkers!  I really don’t need to spend $500.00 on a home microscope.  🤦🏻‍♀️  But if I go for one, I’m afraid it will need at least some of the bells and whistles or will be too frustrating to use and will end up a bit of an expensive doorstop.

I’ll have to check into my options.

[Guppysnail]

On 7/2/2022 at 9:13 AM, Odd Duck said:

That would be my concern with buying used, is things not working right.  I find as I get older I am extremely intolerant of equipment that doesn’t work like it should.  Ain’t nobody got time for that here!  After using high quality microscopes daily for decades, I’m afraid something of lower quality would make me bonkers!  I really don’t need to spend $500.00 on a home microscope.  🤦🏻‍♀️  But if I go for one, I’m afraid it will need at least some of the bells and whistles or will be too frustrating to use and will end up a bit of an expensive doorstop.

I’ll have to check into my options.

I’m afraid the only portion of this one that does not work correctly is actually me 🤣 I bet stepping down from bells and whistles would be frustrating. I’m stepping up from a hand held magnifying glass so this is pretty fancy pants to me 🤣🤣🤣

[Odd Duck]

On 7/2/2022 at 9:26 AM, Guppysnail said:

I’m afraid the only portion of this one that does not work correctly is actually me 🤣 I bet stepping down from bells and whistles would be frustrating. I’m stepping up from a hand held magnifying glass so this is pretty fancy pants to me 🤣🤣🤣

I got to teach a tech-in-training how to recognize cat platelets and the clumps they ALWAYS make using our bells and whistles scope yesterday with camera attachment hooked to the computer monitor.

[Guppysnail]

Club swap meet. I’m gonna play 😈

plants I’ve never even heard of. This should be fun. 
 

so here is what new I picked up to see what timing will cause damage to these  

2types carnivorous bladderwort 

Dwarf red stem parrot feathers

Florida ruffle

Pickerweed

roots of Purple Heart as emergent (roots for pothos and lucky bamboo did fine)

kliener prinz sword

riccia fluitan

cryptocorine green wendetii 

all the others I got because I actually want them but they get soaked as well

not a clue where to put them when I’m done

EDIT ADD… I had not planned on looking at any of these under the microscope.  I did want to offer to do any that anyone wants to see though. I just picked these oddballs up as a fun one since they were cheap (free) The others I got for my tanks were buy 2/3 get one free so these were my freebies  

Edited July 3, 2022 by Guppysnail
Add photos

[Bev C]

this is incredible  very nice read , Thank you for doing this study/project @Guppysnail @Odd Duck@dasaltemelosguy @OnlyGenusCapswonderful job  I am going and getting som Seltzer Water and experiment  some 

I am always fighting Algae and I do a pest snail dip of Alum of new plants if this works   I  might have to eventually do all my plants algae keeps coming back after awhile with the peroxide soak  

I have a  question please  with the snail dip of new plants can i soak it in the dark the same time as algae for plants time  this might have been posted and i missed it if so sorry asking it again

Edited July 3, 2022 by Bev C

[Guppysnail]

On 7/3/2022 at 5:05 AM, Bev C said:

this is incredible  very nice read , Thank you for doing this study/project @Guppysnail @Odd Duck@dasaltemelosguy @OnlyGenusCapswonderful job  I am going and getting som Seltzer Water and experiment  some 

I am always fighting Algae and I do a pest snail dip of Alum of new plants if this works   I  might have to eventually do all my plants algae keeps coming back after awhile with the peroxide soak  

I have a  question please  with the snail dip of new plants can i soak it in the dark the same time as algae for plants time  this might have been posted and i missed it if so sorry asking it again

Thanks for trying. Yes everything can be soaked at the same time. 
Unfortunately this will not prevent algae from returning. 
I had some moneywort I soaked with some of the same moneywort next to it. The algae died on the soaked and the dying dead leaves were stripped. While the unsoaked plant continued to grow more and more algae the soaked took months but as the lower leaves that were not “ph pruned” started to eventually grow algae again.
These were in one of my ugly fry tanks where everything grows algae. 
So the algae can return just not as rapidly because algae attacks unhealthy leaves first giving it a “foothold”. The “ph pruning” removes the dead material it starts on. 
I would be very interested to hear if you feel it takes longer for algae to return using RR than with h2o2. 
Keep us posted. 

Edited July 3, 2022 by Guppysnail

[Bev C]

@Guppysnail  thank you for the info  i am looking forward testing it out ,,, Even if the algae  comes back  if it slows it down it has to better the. the results I have  after the peroxide treatment ,, but if i eventually do all my plants it might help allot to grow back slower ,,,  my water is so bad and the algae effects my plants more then on my wood, rock, sand and glass  

[Guppysnail]

On 7/3/2022 at 6:56 AM, Bev C said:

my water is so bad

I feel this. Mine stinks as well. 

[Guppysnail]

Here we go. Lights out on everything 

[Ken Burke]

I woke from my Sunday afternoon nap feeling somewhat murderous.  🐌 

 

gonna suck the life out of some algae.  Someone also questioned if this would remove MTS.  Gonna find that out too.

I’ve wanted to try it on my mossy log for a while.  Since it’s fairly large, I had trouble finding some thing large enough to hold it without needing gallons of carbonated water.  So adding a cling wrap over the top. Figure it will hold the co2 in place.

in the morning we shall see. 

[Guppysnail]

@Ken Burke I’m interested to see how the moss holds up. Whenever we tightly sealed containers the pressure built to high for leafy plants. Moss may be different. 
 

Jack the Rippers up to bat! 🤣

[Ken Burke]

I wouldn’t think the pressure would be that high, but the log was completely covered with moss/algae.  I can make other arrangements of the moss is wiped out.

[dasaltemelosguy]

On 7/3/2022 at 4:22 PM, Ken Burke said:

I wouldn’t think the pressure would be that high, but the log was completely covered with moss/algae.  I can make other arrangements of the moss is wiped out.

Hi @Ken Burke. It may be OK. We've done no tests on mosses yet but @OnlyGenusCaps I believe did so with the container sealed. Completely sealed killed some leafy plants, but his mosses were fine. I forgot what kind he had though. @Guppysnail do you recall the type of moss he used for his "fry falls"?

[eatyourpeas]

Joining this experiment, because it is too much fun!

Currently treating Riccia fluitans, Süsswassertang and a tiny bit of Water wisteria. Went to the SodaStream spa at noon today. Will report tomorrow. 😎

I did apologize profusely to the algae. Green hair and staghorn. BBA still refuses to grow for me... 🙄