The Accidental Oto Keeper

[Jennifer V]

A good friend once told me that truly intelligent people curse a lot. I rather enjoyed that sentiment because it was funny and gave me carte blanche to let the choice words fly, even if it's just at home when I'm really mad. 

Is the "in order to get over someone ... " a quote from a Frasier episode? That's the only time I've ever heard that, and right or wrong, it totally cracked me up. Love that show! 

Impressed with your resilience! Keep at it! And keep posting! 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Thanks @Jennifer V. I intend to keep trying. 

Because I'm a nerd- I read a lot. There have been several studies that have shown intelligent people DO swear, your friend is absolutely correct. There are of course those who are not and every other word is a swear. This of course is different. However, using a swear word to emphasize things- and using swear words as a literal stress release is not uncommon. Letting a good F word fly has been proven to help with stressful moments. I don't like to bottle things- even if there's nobody around to listen but the animals- they got an earful yesterday. 

The over/under quote has been around a while- where it came from I do not know- but I do remember vaguely it was used on Frasier (I too, love that show). 

[Torrey]

I am glad you are exploring this as an opportunity, instead of letting the death be an excuse. 

I have discovered during my convalescence that the gentleman in San Francisco who owns the fish store and never does water changes is really onto something. The **only** tank that is not 100% stable for me as I recuperated from surgery was my glass bottom bachelor grow out tank (soon to be a fry tank).

Everything else survived 6 weeks of my recovery and the only thing that happened/ changed was too many babies and non-existent nitrates.

Just thought I would share, in case you missed the video with Jimmy and Zenzo visiting the shop to learn how the owner had gotten away with zero water changes for 25 years. 😳

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Torrey thank you. Because of instances like this it makes me even more determined to be a better fish keeper. There were things within my control that could have prevented what happened.  It's a very, very hard lesson. My QTs are small so from this point forward there will be daily water changes. I had too much faith in my spot cleaning- as when I was medicating the patient there were no water changes and the tank did well. I was too confident. Many years of keeping several kinds of animals have such hard lessons in them. I train occasionally at work and one of the things that I tell trainees when something bad happens- is that THESE are the lessons that you will NEVER forget- not only will you not make the same mistake again- but you can help others before they make the mistake and your story will have impact. So. I have to move on, and try harder. 

I've watched that video several times and have re-posted it here several times. I aspire. But I'm not there yet. I'd say all but a couple of my tanks are pretty well hands off (4 of 6 not too bad). 1 is close to becoming hands off. The last, The Accidental Oto Tank may always require a daily maintenance of some kind until I come up with a better solution. For now it's therapeutic for me to do things for it. I'm still a water changer- it will be hard for me to change that habit. Compared to a lot of you on the forum I'm still a newbie in this hobby- but I learn something new every day. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Torrey]

On 2/9/2022 at 10:02 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Compared to a lot of you on the forum I'm still a newbie in this hobby- but I learn something new every day. 

I've been doing this for 4 decades (plus a few years) and I still learn something new, daily.

It's how we know we aren't dead.🤷‍♂️

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Torrey,huh, funny. I seem to be surrounded by dead people then! 😂🙃

[Hobbit]

I’m just catching up on all this and I’m so sorry to read about the loss of your little fighter. I lost my “first” fish—first fish as I was getting into this hobby for real, as an adult—because I forgot to plug the heater back in after a water change. It was a betta in a 2.5 gallon bowl. A very hard lesson. It feels terrible, but all we can do is learn, forgive ourselves, and try again. Sending hugs. ❤️ 

[Odd Duck]

Maintenance and revamping as therapy is a good, healthy response.  I have my UG filters and thick, matten foam ready to cut to size for some 10G’s.  I just need to not be shedding virus all over the house and I’m ready.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Odd Duck I'm focused on little things for my tanks and my new Otos, and thankfully there is the scapes from scraps project I'm working out.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS VITTATUS: The 2 Gallon QT. 

***Deceased fish pictures attached to this post**** So I'm suffering from several defeats lately. I got 6 Vittatus from the LFS after my poor patient died. I figured I'd lose at least 1 or 2 but I'm now down to 3 as of this morning I watched one pass. I got them on the 9th and they seemed rather red around the gills. The 10th everyone was there and looked better and ate. The 11th one had passed and not being able to tell what they passed of as they were not red and no other physical signs I started a round of Kanaplex to cover potential Bacterial or Fungal infection. The 12th I found another one deceased, very similar to the last. Yesterday the 13th everyone was ok and I thought ok, we might be over the hump- I did a water change and dosed Kanaplex as directed. And today, I literally watched one pass. This one is rather inflamed not just in the gill area and has a very distended belly- never seen this before and the others did NOT display this. I did a Tetra strip test and everything is in the safe zone (not able to test specifically for Ammonia this morning as I don't have strips). I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas what might be going on here: 

I expect to lose Otos in QT unfortunately. I've managed only 1x to get all the Otos I bought through QT. I'd rather not lose anymore of course- the largest of the group- a good looking female I'd REALLY like to see make it. 😔 Calling all cars on this one, Help!!

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I would love to know what @Coluthinks on this but I am very sorry. I just lost 4 ricefish over the weekend and spent a small fortune for them so I am feeling you on losing fish in QT. 

[Colu]

With how swollen the belly and redness can be caused by parastic infection  the reddening could also be a bacterial infection it's possible that fish could have parasites and have developed a secondary bacterial infection what i would do a course of Expel p  as it only requires one dose then I water change in 24hr then I would follow that up with another course of kanaplex if your seeing no improvement

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Colu I will dose some Expel when I get home tonight and 🤞

[Odd Duck]

So sorry for your loss.  I would suspect they were pretty compromised when you got them since they had significant redness around the gills.  Sometimes it’s just too late to save them.  This last one I would suspect a bacterial sepsis +/- intestinal parasites.  They can bloat from the bacteria in the gut undergoing significant growth and even gas production post-mortem or peri-mortem.

I definitely agree with @Colu on the treatment plan.  Deworm with levamisole and treat with kanamycin.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Oh bummer @Odd Duck yeah, Otos are hard to get over the hump I just hate to see them pass. Thanks for the 2nd back up opinion. I will treat them this evening hopefully they'll respond to it. 

[CT_]

IDK why but I've bought probably a dozen by now have had a 50% (I'm sure I have 6 but may have more, I've only ever found one body).  But for me the first week or two has always been fine.  For me its been month 2-3 that have the high fatality/disappearance rate.  Not sure what the moral is but I guess I'll just keep my fingers crossed for your last little guy.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@CT_ yes, that's not uncommon either. From a lot of what I researched when I first got Otos many sites and people said that if you get them past the first couple of months you have some fish! Unfortunately by the time we get them they are already on the decline so loss is usually expected- this time was just stumping me. I'd rather deal with Ich to be honest. Ugh. 

[Torrey]

On 2/14/2022 at 12:23 PM, CT_ said:

IDK why but I've bought probably a dozen by now have had a 50% (I'm sure I have 6 but may have more, I've only ever found one body).  But for me the first week or two has always been fine.  For me its been month 2-3 that have the high fatality/disappearance rate.  Not sure what the moral is but I guess I'll just keep my fingers crossed for your last little guy.

@CT_ the reason so many people lose oto's around the 2 to 4 month point, is typically they have finished eating the biofilm.

Otos don't do well on prepared fish food. I wish I could remember Laura's last name, she's a serious ichthyoligist in Australia and has gotten a few books published on the aquarium hobby, and has covered the life cycle, breeding, and the critical aspect: how to keep them alive.

Laura's recommendation to people who want otos is to have them in larger groups, in larger tanks, and always be preparing more hardscape with biofilm. 

Plan on losing 75% in quarantine due to starvation before they get to you, unless you find a reputable breeder and order direct.

Apparently it's even harder to have success in Australia. 😬

@xXInkedPhoenixX I am so sorry you have lost more fish... it's heartbreakingly frustrating. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Got home tonight and dosed Expel-P (which is reasonably hard in a tank this small -because it's not *quite* 2 gallons). Everyone was still alive as far as I could tell (dark in my house now with some ambient light) Here's hoping all 3 are still with me in the morning. 🤞

Edited February 15, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX
Typos are lame

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS VITTATUS: The 2 Gallon QT

Well this morning I woke up and all 3 Otos are still with me though they look pretty miserable. They have redness up around their poor eyeballs. I'm hoping the Expel-P is helping. I did my spot cleaning and added some water to the tank so I sprinkled a few more granules of Expel and I'm on the 3rd dose of Kanaplex (so 6 days in). I believe them to still be eating as most of what I felt I cleaned up was the remaining Hikari Algae Wafer but not so much the Repashy Super Green (which between Soilent and Super Green my Otos seem to prefer the latter). 

Either of my med experts @Colu or @Odd Duck have an insight about this: thinking of just leaving the tank until tomorrow morning for a water change. That's more than 24hrs with the Expel but sooner than the 2 days the Kanaplex recommends for the water change. Thoughts? Otherwise I can just do a water change this evening around the time I dosed the Expel yesterday. 

[Colu]

On 2/15/2022 at 4:31 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

OTOCINCLUS VITTATUS: The 2 Gallon QT

Well this morning I woke up and all 3 Otos are still with me though they look pretty miserable. They have redness up around their poor eyeballs. I'm hoping the Expel-P is helping. I did my spot cleaning and added some water to the tank so I sprinkled a few more granules of Expel and I'm on the 3rd dose of Kanaplex (so 6 days in). I believe them to still be eating as most of what I felt I cleaned up was the remaining Hikari Algae Wafer but not so much the Repashy Super Green (which between Soilent and Super Green my Otos seem to prefer the latter). 

Either of my med experts @Colu or @Odd Duck have an insight about this: thinking of just leaving the tank until tomorrow morning for a water change. That's more than 24hrs with the Expel but sooner than the 2 days the Kanaplex recommends for the water change. Thoughts? Otherwise I can just do a water change this evening around the time I dosed the Expel yesterday. 

What I would do water change out the Expel p after the 24 hrs and as your on day six of the kanaplex follow up with another course of kanaplex you can do two courses of kanaplex back to back reddening more than likely bacterial infection if  you have no ammonia present 

Edited February 15, 2022 by Colu

[Odd Duck]

On 2/15/2022 at 10:48 AM, Colu said:

What I would do water change out the Expel p after the 24 hrs and as your on day six of the kanaplex follow up with another course of kanaplex you can do two courses of kanaplex back to back reddening more than likely bacterial infection if  you have no ammonia present 

100% agree.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Odd Duck @Colu thanks as usual. They got their water change, they're all still with me. They'll get another water change in the morning.

[Hobbit]

Fingers crossed for you. ❤️ I had a ricefish pass away from a super bloated abdomen that looked a lot like your oto. I did a post-mortem dissection and its abdomen appeared to just be full of fluid. As far as I could tell it wasn’t a particular organ that was swollen—it was all right under the skin. It had developed slowly over several weeks though. She was eventually unable to eat. Not sure why I’m telling you this story other than to say it stinks.

(DECEASED FISH PICTURES AHEAD (dissection not shown))

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[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Hobbit the story relation/sentiment is nice regardless. Poor little Ricefish. Losing fish buddies indeed really sucks.