The Accidental Oto Keeper

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA: The 2 Gallon QT

Well folks Day 5 of Epsom Salt soak for our Popeye patient and last dose of the first round of Kanaplex. Food was pretty much left untouched but since I'm pretty sure patient ate earlier in the week I'm not super concerned- if I was in this little one's fins I wouldn't want to eat a lot either. It seems like the skin around the eye is just a little better maybe not between yesterday and today but definitely between day 1 and 5, it seems a little less stretched and a bit more rounded hopefully meaning the eye is pulling inward how far that goes of course is yet to be seen with continued care. 

The little one is very patient with me, I catch them with a net out of the QT but I hand catch them out of the container when the soak is done as it seems to stress them a whole lot less, fins and mouth get caught on the net more than I'd like. 

@Odd Duck you recommended a 5 day soak on the Epsom, should these continue with the 2nd round of Kanaplex or just do the 2nd round with the Aquarium Salts? I plan on doing a water change after the last 48hour dose is up and starting up again. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
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[Minanora]

Caught up today. I'm sorry that one of your otos has popeye. Hope they keep eating and recovering well.

I love the new decorations and the progress of the babies!

[Odd Duck]

On 12/12/2021 at 6:53 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA: The 2 Gallon QT

Well folks Day 5 of Epsom Salt soak for our Popeye patient and last dose of the first round of Kanaplex. Food was pretty much left untouched but since I'm pretty sure patient ate earlier in the week I'm not super concerned- if I was in this little one's fins I wouldn't want to eat a lot either. It seems like the skin around the eye is just a little better maybe not between yesterday and today but definitely between day 1 and 5, it seems a little less stretched and a bit more rounded hopefully meaning the eye is pulling inward how far that goes of course is yet to be seen with continued care. 

The little one is very patient with me, I catch them with a net out of the QT but I hand catch them out of the container when the soak is done as it seems to stress them a whole lot less, fins and mouth get caught on the net more than I'd like. 

@Odd Duck you recommended a 5 day soak on the Epsom, should these continue with the 2nd round of Kanaplex or just do the 2nd round with the Aquarium Salts? I plan on doing a water change after the last 48hour dose is up and starting up again. 

I would give this kiddo a few days rest in between, then try again since you do seem to be making some progress.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

As a human healthcare provider not an animal one what I notice image to image is a little less inflammation - redness is down as is the injection - the way the little blood vessels are pushed out into the tissue. Usually this is a good sign. He does seems a little more stress - color is less, fins are more clamped. I would second @Odd Ducksuggestion to give him a break before the next round of treatments. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA: The 2 Gallon QT

So today my patient got a gallon water change and a piece of Polyfilter to suck out the rest of the meds. I added about a Tablespoon of aquarium salt and will be leaving them be for a couple days and take a break from meds and soaks. 

As I was waiting for @Odd Duck's opinion I went ahead and did 1 more Epsom soak yesterday, which I think was a good idea- gave me another up close look. While I totally agree with @Beardedbillygoat1975's assessment of the other pictures yesterday's was much better. Now something you can't see- when they're in the QT their coloring is darker- but clearly yesterday their coloring in the soak was much better than it has been which I was happy to see. The skin around the eye a lot whiter. I'm happy with how they are coming along. 

In the meantime:

In inspiration to getting my poor little patient back to original condition as best I can...

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA: The Accidental Oto Tank

Cuteness overload:

Edited December 15, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
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[johnzhe]

Bellies! Fat Otos are happy otos, as they say. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA (TIGER): The 2 Gallon QT

It has now been 15 days since I found our Popeye patient in need of assistance. I think I'm pretty pleased with how they're coming along so far especially since eye injuries I've been reading in fish can take months to heal IF they do heal. I started a new round of Kanaplex we did dose 2 of that today so started 20 minute Epsom baths for the next 5 days or so. After this I think good sized water change and constant clean water will be on order. I may contact the local Veterinary University Hospital to consult on whether bringing them in sooner or waiting a bit for healing time is better. Patient eats every other day or so a decent amount. I always kind of grit my teeth so to speak when I'm putting a fish through a round of meds. I'll be happier when it stops. 

OTOCINCLUS VITTATUS: The Parent Tank

I love my little Momma Oto. She's always somewhere in the front right corner of the tank. Unlike most of my Otos in both the tanks she's not at all spooked by my presence and rarely moves even when I'm working in the tank. You'd think it was because she's guarding eggs maybe but I've looked and not seen any. Sometimes I wonder if the snails eat them as I see the Mysteries in that corner from time to time. I put this driftwood cage over the tiny Amazon she loves and it's been there since the other spawns but the snails do find their way there regardless. Anyhow, she's just relaxing at the top of that cage today, thought it was cute if it didn't look just a little uncomfortable:

I've been testing a bit earlier in the morning and on a different day. Getting different readings lately in my tanks- oddly my Parent tank usually tests well but since I've tested the last couple of Wednesdays I've gotten different ones:

Parent tank parameters:

Temp: 75.6

pH: 7.6 (consistent here)

Nitrite: .10 (this was the odd one- it usually tests 0, technically there is no .10 but it wasn't blue and it wasn't the .25 purple it was somewhere in between)

Nitrate: 40 (consistently)

KH: 4/71.6

GH: 161.1

Edited December 18, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
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[Guppysnail]

Not tech support but long term encouragement. My male BN arrived to me missing an eye. It was definitely there at some point you can see the hole and a dot. It was healed when I got him I don’t know how it was lost I’m disappointed the seller would send him as I never allow handicapped fish out of my care (I love him anyway it gives him character and he fits in with all the misfits I keep). He seems to not know it’s missing. He thrives and is an awesome dad. So if your little one loses his eye he can still thrive and live a full happy life. 

[Hobbit]

Haha that view of Mamma Oto slinging herself over the driftwood is hilarious. 😄 Does not look comfortable AT ALL but hey, if she likes it, more power to her!

Your Popeye oto is looking so much better! That’s amazing!

[Odd Duck]

@xXInkedPhoenixX That eye is looking good!  Swelling is going down very nicely now!  Finish this 5 days of Epsom soaks and Kanaplex, then give her another few days rest.  You may, or may not, need to repeat more Epsom salts.  I would hold off on a third round of Kanaplex until you see what a few days off from treatment does.

If swelling worsens, restart the Epsom soaks sooner and plan a third round of Kanaplex.

Sometimes once things heal to a certain point, it tips the balance the right way in the healing process.  Seems like you might be getting to that stage, maybe?  Hopefully!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA: The 2 Gallon QT

First of all thank you @Guppysnail for your words of encouragement. In my experience animals are far more resilient and resourceful than human beings when faced with a disability- it's almost as if they don't miss a beat. I'm fully prepared for this one to have a non functioning eye, or lose it, or cloud over, or etc. Whatever happens it will have the best care I can provide for them. I'm stubborn and will not give up until I've tried everything I can. If it is lost it won't be because I didn't make the most effort I could. 

@Hobbit also thank you for the encouragement. What's funny is some days even with pictures I'm not sure if it's improved or not but glad to have other sets of eyes here to look. And yes, Momma Oto, she looked more like the hammock itself than laying in one. Silly girl. 

@Odd Duck to have you also confirm improvement and be encouraged by the progress is especially nice since you rightfully pointed out it may not heal at all- it looked REALLY bad. I appreciate the dose of reality as reality is often brutally honest. We have to be skeptical of things in order to not be totally devastated at times. I also very much appreciate helping me formulate a treatment plan that seems to be working really well. What is it about Kanaplex you think is helping this along?

Thought I would share how I prefer to write stuff down and have a visual as opposed to electronic reminders. I have a dry erase board for other reminders and I write treatment plans along the bottom and make a check off list: 

So to our Popeye patient today is day 8 of Epsom Soaks. Correct me if I'm wrong but it even looks better from yesterday?! I feel like it has and I'm really pleased. 

Edited December 19, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
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[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS VITATTUS: The Parent Tank

So I went and mentioned yesterday that Momma Oto looked like she was guarding eggs but I haven't seen any? Well someone has done someTHING because today I caught 2 baby Otos!! I found them within about a half hour of each other. Thankfully before the Harlequins ate them. I always hate catching them from here because if they escape my net they almost certainly have a chance to try and make a swim for it across the tank which is where I've lost some to the Harlequins in the past. Nature, I know but I caused the food to run so bums me out. Anyhow. I did several other patrols before leaving for work and found no further. I will have to do daily frequent checks from this point for a while as I could just get a few- OR a small wave of them is coming. 

The small breeder was put in the tank and the 2 babies were placed with a few glass beads (for bio film since the breeder has been out of the water a bit) and some crushed Hikari Algae Wafers (which is how I've raised all my other Otos). At this stage I used to worry that they could get through the vents but they apparently can't however they are SO small it's hard to do a roll call at times as they can sit between the vent lines and nearly disappear. Even when they're on solid pieces of the breeder you can barely see them...

I checked around Momma Oto and didn't see any translucent eggs anywhere on her Amazon, however I recently planted more Amazon compacta behind her in a pot and that's harder to inspect soooo.....

Edited December 19, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
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[Odd Duck]

On 12/18/2021 at 7:31 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

What is it about Kanaplex you think is helping this along?

Kanaplex is a broader antimicrobial spectrum.  I think it’s mostly the combo of Epsom salts helping to pull out the swelling and tincture of time.  The Kanaplex is honestly a bit of a desperation long shot in this case, but worth trying since we did have some pretty significant pinkness that could have been infection.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Odd Duck I thought it might be something like that. TBH I can't wait to stop using the Kanaplex. I really hate medicating fish. I agree the Epsoms seem to be helping a lot. I'd really just like to give them clean water and time. With an occasional soak and aquarium salt treatments (because that's in the QT too).

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA (TIGER): The 2 Gallon QT

Today was hopefully the last dose of Kanaplex- if not "forever" at least for a while. It is 17 days since our Popeye patient was pulled from the Accidental Oto tank. There was a 20 minute Epsom soak while I cleaned up the food (which did not appear touched) and dosed the tank. I have to tell you, I cannot wait to do a water change on the QT- dosing meds with no water changes drives me crazy- while the water is probably fine it looks terrible. I feel like the fish is better off with fresh water. I will get my hands on it tomorrow. No real change between today and yesterday: 

Edited December 20, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS VITTATUS: The Parent Tank

Day 2 on baby watch- did not see any signs of new ones. Of course since I wake up in the afternoon due to nightshift the Harlequins have had plenty of time to do their own patrolling- but IME so far the Otos don't have a LOT of babies. Just small batches. Thankfully I'm on my weekend after tonight's shift so I'll have more time to check more often. 

So last time I kept the floating breeder in the Parent tank the well-meaning Mystery snails would often attach themselves to the box and would worry me about sinking it (they have before when I've contained one of their own for QT/watch). In the last attempt I made airline rings and floated them around the box making a sort of bumper system- this only worked most of the time. I got an idea when rifling through my aquarium "equipment drawer of randomness"- I saw 2 veggie clips and thought ahh this might work- as long as it can hold a Mystery snail's weight they shouldn't be able to tip it if I put it in the corner. I think it will work despite having put it up yesterday and one of the clips falling (didn't get good enough suction it shoud be good now)

Both babies are in there and seemingly doing well. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA (TIGER): The 2 Gallon QT

Day 18 after injury and the patient was given an Epsom Soak. It still looks irritated to me and about as good as it has been for the last few days as far as swelling.. I had thought on yesterday's entry I could do a big water change today and take out the meds but I was getting ahead of myself, the Kanaplex had another 24hrs. *sigh* Oh well. Tomorrow it is. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

THE ACCICENTAL OTO TANK: Nitrate Experimentation aka Fun with Plants

So in the ongoing quest to lower the steady 40 ppm nitrate in 3 of my 5 tanks- it's mostly been focused on this, my 10 gallon Oto tank. I had added some Spider and Pothos plants but they are babies so it will be a while until they are soldiers in this effort. Therefore I decided to buy the bamboo holder from the same seller I got my plant holder from and sacrifice my Lucky Bamboo in my bathroom for the Otos. 

Bamboo holder:

The Lucky Bamboo:

The Bamboo was repotted a while ago in aquarium planting substrate mixed with some gravel and bead glass at the top. It was doing well but admittedly was getting a little tall for its britches. It will still be a bit tall and can only go on one side of the Oto aquarium because of how it sits under a cabinet in my kitchen. Rearranging had to be done among other things. 

I started with the bamboo because I didn't know what kind of roots I was going to be messing with so I pulled it from its pot and things looked pretty good. I took it out back and hosed off all the substrate and set it aside to deal with the tank.

First on the agenda in the tank the larger of the 2 Amazons. Since its leaves were long and were at the surface it had grown quite the head of hair(algae) so all the long leaves and any algae covered or dying leaves got cut off. Detrius flew eveywhere and my poor Otos were frantically wondering by their skittering about (as they do) what the heck I was doing. 

I fiddled with placement for a while as my original plan took a bit more effort than I thought. I was a bit concerned taking the sponge filter out was going to be a problem in the future since its placement was right under where I was going to put the holder for the bamboo. In the end the old sponge filter got replaced with a new Aquarium Co-Op one that is larger and placed on the left instead of the right- where the HOB used to sit so now that's in the middle and both plant holders are on the right of it. Whew. This also meant that pots in the tank got moved and coconut houses moved (and falling) and plants moved and wood moved- this is about the time I was glad this tank was designed the way it was- so much easier to move a potted plant than one that's rooted in substrate. All of this took longer and was messier than I wanted but it got done. All with tiny Otos freaking out around me like the sky was falling (and sometimes it did a little). 

After this was done I put the bamboo in its holder:

Almost immediately after I placed it in the tank 2 of the Tiger Otos found spots on and near it. 

So the tank looks pretty good despite not taking great pictures (doesn't help the light is blinding), but you get the idea!

Edited December 21, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
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[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Thanks @xXInkedPhoenixXthis post just cost me $32 on Etsy! Hahaha very cool. Nice to see that this is effective!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Beardedbillygoat1975 haha, sorry about that. I know there are DIY ways of doing this but I'm too lazy for that (let alone I personally don't prefer the look). BUT- the people who sell them are cool and quick about getting things mailed- so I don't feel guilty about supporting the small and creative businesses. 😉 

Edited December 21, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

The Accidental Oto Tank: Nitrate Experimentation

The bamboo saga chapter. So, really not expecting to get different results just having put the bamboo into the tank this week (Monday)- but I think we have movement. Today when doing my weekly test it was not the clearly blatant red it has been for months- you know that red that you can't see the difference between the 40 and 80ppm Nitrate? Yeah that one. You can't really tell in my pic which is disappointing but it's an orangey red (I'd call it 30 ppm). Hopefully I'll have more decisive results next week! I can also say the roots have noticeably stretched themselves out in the last few days- the plant is clearly happy so far. 

Today's results:

Temp: 78 (unheated)

pH: 7.2 (down a little from 7.6)

Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 30 (that's what I'm callin' it)

kh: 4/71.6

gh: 143.2 (up 17.9)

Edited December 24, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
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[johnzhe]

Emergent plants really do destroy nitrate. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA (TIGER): The 2 Gallon QT

Day 23 for my injured Popeye patient. They've been given a break from medication just sitting in QT solitary with Aquarium salt, a piece of Polyfilter and a small piece of Indian Almond Leaf- though I think I might pull that- not sure it will do much good- but moreso so I can see them better. I do small daily water changes sucking out of old food with a syringe. Haven't noticed any significant amount of food being eaten since the last update. I think it looks a little less puffy but it seems rather red to me- though the QT and the fact that it's kind of dark plays with the colors on me. The pics I have are in the QT instead of the Epsom bath (which we're taking a few days break from) so the angles are different from the usual. What was good about these is I can now clearly see with the side shot there is some healing damage along the skin just under the eye in the pic so there is no doubt the poor thing got it pretty good. Not sure where in the Accidental Oto Tank this could have happened- I try really hard not to put things near walls or put anything in the tank that might hurt them- but there is a piece of wood that stuck out well enough (since moved to a different position and some twigs cut off) and the sponge filter was close to the wall. I'll never know for sure. Otos can be spazzy when you're working in the tank. We might have reached the plateau for now but I'm determined to see if I can get this eye to heal. I think after the new year turns and people are back at work I'll contact the local university for an appointment regardless of little one's status (well barring a total miracle). 

Edited December 25, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
1 more thing.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Otocinclus Cocama (Tiger) and Vittatus: The Love

I love (all) my fish babies- with Otos specifically there's just something so endearing about their cartoony faces, how they stick to the side of the glass, how sometimes they can move awkwardly swimming slowly or seemingly teleport from one end of the tank to another coming to an abrupt stop on something. There are so many more things I love about them. I admire them daily. 

Momma Oto (The Parent Tank):

Otocinclus Vittatus and Cocama (The Accidental Oto Tank):

Edited December 25, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
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[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA (TIGER): The 2 Gallon QT

So today after yesterday's pictures I decided to start up a round of Epsom soaks again. They have had a couple of days rest from it. I'm wondering if every other day is therapeutic enough? Anyone have an opinion? Little one goes in while I clean up their space. I had mentioned yesterday I was going to pull the Indian Almond Leaf but upon some further reading and its purported benefits I'll leave it for now until and unless I need to medicate again. I put some pics side by side and while the 21st looks like it was better than either of the other pictures (and it may be but the angle may throw things off I'm not sure) it does appear it's stayed the same for some time now. The redness in the area up to today still bothers me- but I'm hoping it is just damaged and hopefully healing tissue under the stretched skin around the eye, like bruising, NOT an infection. 🤞 

One thing I was encouraged by is that I saw the little one "blink" with both eyes- not sure what that movement is officially called since they don't have eyelids but both eyes moved in unison so that to me says function in the area is still there. I'm not sure what they are seeing if anything from that eye though it looks clear- there is probably some blindness- I'll have to do some further focused "tests" on them later.