The Accidental Oto Keeper

[Minanora]

I love otos. This is so cool! I'm glad you started this journal. Thank you for sharing!

I hope you get babies from the tiger otos, they are so beautiful.

 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Minanora Thank you very much. I'm a big fan of scavenger animals and catfish are definitely one of those animals I love. Being a small fish keeper there's not a lot of small fish options in the category IMO and I've always loved "glass suckers". When I started out in the hobby this time around I was very happy to see this little fish. They're not very easy to keep as far as I'm concerned though apparently I've managed rather well- I can see where others might struggle. Hoping posts here will help others. 

The Tiger Otos are another level. My goal is to get them to spawn. I'm hoping that since the Vittatus do spawn for me that they will as well. Since they are spawning in the Accidental Oto Tank this proves to me conditions there are right. I'm crossing my fingers. 

[Hobbit]

On 11/10/2021 at 8:03 PM, PineSong said:

In the upper part of her tummy, you can kind of see the spiral/circular stuff I am talking about. I think it's their intestines?: 

@PineSong not to worry! Those are just intestines. In my experience, you stop being able to see the intestinal outlines as the fish grow up, though otos stay small enough that you may be able to see them forever. I haven’t gotten a good look at my otos’ bellies in a while, but I’ve definitely seen their intestines before. I could see the same sort of intestinal pattern on my pleco when she was a baby:

@xXInkedPhoenixX lovely new journal! I’m not up for lots of reading these days but I still enjoy looking through the pictures and getting a sense of where you’re at. The tiger otos look GORGEOUS!! If we ever get to trade on this forum, you will be in business. 🤩

[CT_]

OHHH MAN! how did I miss this thread until now!  best thing on the entire internet 😉

 

I'm rooting for tiger oto babies!  good to know the O. vittatus will breed in 40ppm nitrate too.  There's a lot of anecdotes that they need super pure water, but I think that's just something people say when they don't have anything else to say about what to do. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@CT_ Thanks for the compliment! I'm not sure what I am doing right but apparently it's right enough for them- of all my fish they are the only ones that spawn. There have been no babies in the Parent Tank but there are Rasboras that are very predatory of the little ones so it is possible they have existed recently but I've not seen any. However, now that the Accidental Oto Tank holds tank bred Vittatus, well maybe they're ok with whatever conditions I have even if it holds true others need "super pure water". I potentially could only be doing things half right- maybe if things were tweaked they'd breed more? Not a Scooby Doo.  

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA (TIGER): D-day- move from the 2 gallon QT to The Accidental Oto Tank

I had a 12 hour night shift behind me so I didn't start moving day quite as early as I'd hoped. I lost a lot of natural light for some of my pics so I apologize- I am not patient with camera phones and not a professional photographer. That being said I hope you enjoy today's entry. 

First, when someone new comes to stay we want to clean house right? That was top billing on this project. A thorough cleaning of The Accidental tank started with a good vacuum and HOB prefilter squeeze out. I don't really like doing this when I know there's possibilities of eggs/fry here but it did need to be done. I only plan to spot clean with basters from this point forward for a while. The lid got cleaned, the plants got trimmed and moved. There's always bits that escape you but it got done. While cleaning up the plants I spotted baby Vittatus #7 who quickly got caught and put in with their six siblings they were probably IN the Amazon when I was messing with it which prompted it to come out from hiding:

Everything cleaning-wise got done and new foods put in the Oto bowl:

Then it was time to start moving "furniture" into the new house. In order to hopefully make the Cocama more comfortable they had their own brand new Narrow Leaf Java Fern and piece of Spiderwood. So I pulled the Narrow leaf out first- there was a piece of Spiderwood in the Accidental tank I intended to use for a plant anchor so I glued the plant to that and placed it: 

The Cocama's English Cucumber clip got moved and new cucumber placed. Now there will be 2 clips in the tank one on each side:

The Spiderwood was rather large for the 2 gallon QT (technically 1.72 gallons) and was the Cocamas' favorite place to hang out. Several of them were attached to it when I was moving it. The little buggers were very stubborn about coming off even when it was out of water. It took some coaxing then I placed it: 

Now everything was ready for their move in. Below are some after pictures and a link for those who can link to google photos of the release of one of the Otos. You will also see another already having been released sitting on the Amazon: 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LeA5oBXwhFUV9paP9  (35 seconds)

 

I was hoping at some point one of the Vittatus would be on the glass alongside one of the Cocama so you can see size difference. I got one where you can't see their whole bodies but you get the jist: 

This second one was taken when the lights went out so I had to modify the pic so you can at least see shape, more for reference of size than beauty here: 

This was an exciting day for me and Otos. They haven't been too active since I put them in the tank but they've been moving occassionally, appear to be calm and have no outward signs of stress. I feel like this is the point where I'm a little nervous- just in case the parameters from the QT and their new tank stress them some. I'm crossing my fingers they have a good night and all is well when I do morning patrol in the a.m. Here is one final short google linked video of a few in the tank: 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wykZFDzBFJAGPJhG8  (13 seconds, 2 on the glass- one you can see briefly in the background inside the Amazon Sword)

Hope all is well in your fishkeeping worlds!

Edited November 16, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
rearranging...

[lindabee53]

@xXInkedPhoenixX I'm amazed by how knowledgeable you are about the Otos.  I had some in my old tank years ago and really enjoyed watching them.

I went to town today to run errands and stopped in at PetSmart to pick up a new heater.  I'm not sure how it happened, but I walked out with four Otos and six Pepper Cories.  They're all swimming around together and seem to be doing well.  My Rubbermaid tote may not look great, but it'll do for the time being.  It's the first time I've ever kept new fish separate from older ones in my aquarium - see, I do learn.

Anyway, I got home, realized I had nothing set up for these poor little fish and got to work.  Never again!  I did a huge water change so I could have water for the tote and was so glad I had an extra sponge filter in my 20-gallon tank and a small heater from my old 3-gallon tank.  And I'm really pleased that I have a new sponge filter sitting on the shelf, so that can go into the 20-gallon.

Okay, I've probably done everything wrong, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.  I wish there were someone here to smack me upside the head when I do stupid things like this.  Back to sewing - my youngest granddaughter needs a new quilt.  ☺️

And I apologize for hijacking your thread - didn't mean to.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Thank you@lindabee53 for the compliments! What I have learned has been mostly by my experience and by hours and hours of research on the fish that I keep. 

Things like walking out of a fish/pet store with fish when that is not your intention definitely happens. Even with someone like me who is typically patient. The Cocama were definitely what I would consider "impulse" for me though I did not buy them the day I saw them. One of my tanks is 8 months old and still not fully stocked out as I'd planned it. THIS is why it's very important to be prepared to have a QT. A seeded sponge in a working tank (with a back up sponge to replace it when pulled) is probably the most important. Sounds like you have that! Since I had the Cocamas in QT I had another QT running for my Flex aka Ember House, now it's holding a sick fish and where the Cocama used to be is now up and running for something new. So I'm glad you've understood the importance. 

Now that you have Accidental Cory and Oto in your care, make sure the Oto get opportunities for food. As mentioned above my Otos love Hikari Algae wafers and now Repashy Super Green- but Cories can be kinda piggy, so I would highly recommend putting a veggie or two in there since they can't be eaten as quickly. My Otos, though I've tried so, so many veggies the only one they've touched are English Cucumbers- but others have been successful with spinach, green beans, squash etc (usually after blanching- I don't have to blanch the cucumber). Hope you are successful with the process!! And have fun with that quilt (I love quilts and have purchased several from crafters). 

Edited November 16, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[lindabee53]

Thanks for the advice!  I'll put veggies in the tank/tote tomorrow and see about picking up the foods you mentioned next time I go to town.  Meanwhile, the Otos seem happy enough with the algae wafers I have on hand.

Okay, checked the fridge - I have asparagus, green beans, radishes, but I finished the squash and regular cucumber with supper.  Rats!  Guess it'll be green beans to start and see how the Cories like them.

I was lucky to have a tote that holds close to 10 gallons.  It had yarn in it, so I scrubbed it out with hot water and did what I could.

I'm not generally an impulsive person, but I think retirement has affected my brain.  I should be in bed, but I'm waiting to take meds for shingles, so back to the cutting table.  I've been quilting for about 45 years - it's part of me now.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA (TIGER): The Accidental Oto Tank

Morning after: So morning patrols of the Accidental Oto tank after the big move yesterday found all my Cocama still doing well. This morning they apparently had some sort of meeting, and as per usual with these meetings someone decides they're too important to show up (only 4 Cocama hanging out- the other 2 were off doing something else apparently...hopefully spawning)- but they seem to be confering with their new Vittatus tankmates. Everyone is playing very nicely. C'mon, they're Otocinclus- did we expect any less? 

I left a camera on for a little bit to try and catch some of the Accidental Tank's activities. They tend to shoal a lot more in the evening and mornings before and just after the lights come on. there's a little activity in the following google link (1m 34 sec), most of the activity is towards the middle and end of the video. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xnKJGrUrbYtcdUweA

They got light maintenance today as really they didn't make any big messes. On a side note, all 7 Vittatus babies accounted for and doing very well. 

Edited November 17, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
1 more thing.

[johnzhe]

Wow, the O. cocama are huge!

Just found your journal. I'm a newbie fishkeeper (~2 months in) but I love research! And my eventual goal is to breed Otos (have 5 O. macrospilus in a species-only planted tank that's matured for around a year before getting fish).

I don't know how many of these other Oto breeders you've found before, but:
james0816 on plantedtank forums
Fins And Whiskers on Youtube
Dendrochirus Zebra on Youtube

are some of the other guys I've found. (I can throw some links up if you want.)

Some interesting things I've noticed is that bioAquatix and Aquaticarts, the only two places I've found commercially selling *tank-bred otos, sell O. macrospilus only. But all the hobbyist breeders are breeding O. vittatus. (Dean's the exception with black Otos, but, well, he's Dean.)

I'm also trying to cross-reference your setup, water parameters, feeding etc. with the other few breeders. Fins and Whiskers keeps her water way cooler at 71-75F, for example, so it seems like a wide range of temperatures can work.

In the Accidental Oto tank, you don't feed any live foods (just cucumbers, Hikari algae wafers, zucchini, and Repashy Super Green, I think?) and your F1 Otos still spawned. And yet both Dean and Fins and Whiskers think that live food is key to spawning Otos. Maybe any protein source can work.

Sorry for the rant. But anyways, I'll be keeping an eye on this journal!

Edited November 18, 2021 by johnzhe

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Hi there @johnzhe! Welcome to the forum and I appreciate the sources you've given I'll definitely take a look. I think that's the thing about Otos (and of course that's a general term, different Otos may also have different tricks). In MY research in the beginning prior to getting any Otos at all I noticed more sites list them as HERBivores than OMNIvores so I never started mine on any SPECIFIC protein source. Now that's not to say they aren't. If you think logically of course in the wild they will have protein- how are they to sort, say dead bug or fish matter (protein) from algaes in the river? ALSO consider that some plants are also sources of protein, SPIRULINA is a source a lot of people use for vegan protein. There are other algaes and plants that also contain it such as the kinds of veggies we sometimes feed them in our tanks. THEN look at what I've been feeding them this whole time as a supplement food source: Hikari Algae Wafers, whose number one ingredient is FISH MEAL and there is also FISH OIL and even KRILL MEAL before SPIRULINA even makes an appearance on the list, all sources of protein. So though I've heard others on the web and even on this forum feeding live or thawed frozen foods I haven't bothered. But I'm just a hobbyist and don't have a huge desire to breed 100s of fish at one time. I have the capacity for about 20 or so now for growing out (as I've taken the Accidental Oto Tank off the grow out list and just have small holding tanks).  Now take in what I've recently been feeding them: Repashy Super Green (this is a food I've only started giving them consistently since September)- that has, with a quick cursory glance, NO animal based protein in it- BUT they eat THAT before they eat the Hikari. That tells ME they lean towards a plant based diet before they dain to lean on something with more protein. This includes my recently acquired Cocamas. (They also love the English Cucumber they have potassium, fiber, vitamin C, K, A, magnesium- they don't like Zucchini so far, I've tried, I'm not sure what the deal is there). 

The matter of temperature is a whole other thing. What I can tell you in my experience so far, and I've been right so far, is that my Vittatus started spawning again when my house, hence their UNHEATED tanks, got warmer. As fall/winter approaches- being cold is a peeve of mine. So where they sit the room is pushing 78-80 degrees thanks to my house heater (set at 72) and the space heater (a Dyson set between either 78 or 80 depending on my mood). Both times they have started spawning this is the time it occurs. Because when do animals spawn? When it gets warmer. There's only a few animals that might continue to have babies when it gets colder. I am predicting that I will get more babies as the winter months appear- I could be wrong but we shall see. I hope the Cocama follow suit. Because my tanks aren't heated they get a break at night where the tanks DO cool down (as the Dyson gets turned down to 77-78) and without the natural light the house does get cooler. 

This is why here I document my parameters too because there is a code in this somewhere.

It's all very fascinating isn't it? If everyone has different expreriences with the same species then we really DON'T know everything about them- which I'm fine with- because it keeps the magic in Nature for me. Nature is true magic.  

Edited November 18, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
Typos are lame

[johnzhe]

On 11/17/2021 at 8:06 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

It's all very fascinating isn't it?

It totally is! And thanks for the reply and explanations! The discussion about protein sources is very interesting, and I'll definitely think more about it.

I'm currently keeping a personal journal on my own fishkeeping experiences. If I ever manage to breed my Otos I will definitely share how I did it (with parameters and everything). Since there are already two commercial breeders, I see the day when Otos become common to breed.

And good luck with the Cocamas! I couldn't find anyone who's bred them before (even though several have tried), so it would be very exciting.

[Guppysnail]

On 11/17/2021 at 10:06 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

It's all very fascinating isn't it? If everyone has different expreriences with the same species then we really DON'T know everything about them- which I'm fine with- because it keeps the magic in Nature for me. Nature is true magic.  

ORD 😍. I feel this statement 🥰

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

TESTING DAY: The Accidental Oto Tank

Today is testing day for all 5 of my tanks. In the last couple of days since the Cocama have been added in I've noticed quite a bit more social activity going on in the tank (during the day, night is a whole other game) whereas usually I'd only very occasionally see an Oto dart from one side to the other. Part of this I'm sure is due in part to the addition of more wood and plants adding more cover and food sources. The Vitattus really like the Spiderwood. I managed to get a pic but usually they are literally lined up nose to tail on this piece of wood (they scatter before I get too close):

I ended up pulling the recently added Narrow leaf and putting it back in QT with my new Endlers- mostly because I got another Narrow Leaf intending to put THAT into QT but found a very pretty piece of Chola (a lot lighter in color than I'm used to seeing) to glue the plant to that I decided to put into the Oto tank instead. I've had to shove the food bowl against it since it has decided not to sink yet: 

The Cocama are also enjoying the wood and coconut houses:

And the sponge filter. All Otos seem to like sponge filters as I'm sure there's some good foods there. Funny though, I noticed THIS Cocama standing on fin where normally they'd be attached to the surface with their mouth! A lot of space between their mouth and the sponge. The only thing I could think is maybe it's holding on with their Ventral fins? -As they are leaning too far back to be leaning into the sponge. Also both tips of the tail fin are touching the bare floor. Could be either or both. Anyway, thought it was kind of funny. 

All 7 Vitattus babies doing very well, eating nicely- usually all or almost all food has been gone by the time morning maintenance comes around. You can see the last additon to the group has some growing up to do: 

Today's Water Testing: 

Temperature: 78.9 (same as last week, no heater)

pH: 7.6 (same)

Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 40 (still!!)

KH: 53.7 (same)

GH: 161.1 (down by 17.9)

Edited November 18, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
rearranging...

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS VITTATUS: The Accidental Oto Tank: The floating breeder

Oldest in the box being approximately 26-27 days old. All doing well and growing/eating. There have been no signs of anymore recent spawns in the tank since the last of the 7 was caught. So, what to do with 7 Otos? They don't seem like a lot to sell to a LFS though I'm sure they probably would- however IF this group stays at 7 and there are no more additions before they reach a sellable size they will be destined to go into the Parent Tank with my original set and some of their previous offspring. The tank is stable and well planted- they should like it there. During recent cleaning I plopped in a small slice of Repashy Super Green and one parked themselves right on top. 

 

[Odd Duck]

On 11/20/2021 at 5:49 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

So, what to do with 7 Otos? They don't seem like a lot to sell to a LFS though I'm sure they probably would

My lfs wouldn’t hesitate to buy 7 locally tank raised otos from me, I’m quite certain.  Just ask them.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA (TIGER): The Accidental Oto Tank 

This morning caught one of the Cocama "curled" up at the near top of the tank on an Amazon leaf. Sorry for the pic quality, it was still dark in my house. 

Also got a couple of cute pics of 2 Cocama just hanging out. One definitely seems to favor the wood it's sitting on (unless there is a different one every time I just have a feeling it's the same one who has staked territory. The other you see is sitting near the veggie clip. I don't blanch the English Cucumber I feed them as you can see by the next morning it gets mushy all on it's own. It gets changed shortly after the lights come on for the day. 

OTOCINCLUS VITTATUS: The Angry Man Tank

Found what is probably the last of my Vittatus in the Angry Man tank deceased. I had previously released 6 of them many months ago. My strong belief is because I had to leave food out for the Otos the bladder snails soon out competed them for the food. It is so hard to keep track of them since they hide during the day that it is pretty much too late when I do finally see them. I had already decided every time I saw one I'd catch it and release it into the Accidental tank- I've only managed one. Maybe tomorrow I will dedicated some time moving things around to check for any survivors but if memory serves there *might* be one left? 😔

OTOCINCLUS VITTATUS: Ember House aka The Flex9

My inhabitants here have been fighting off some kind of mystery illness for some time. I started with 10 Embers months ago and started finding them, and some of the 5 or so Otos I put in there deceased from no apparent/obvious illness.  Finding yet another Oto and Ember gone after just seeing them the day before in seemingly perfect health I started them on a double med round of Furan2 and Kanaplex. I have had no losses so far, 5 Embers and 1 Oto with 2 Endler males and a Hillstream- everyone seemingly eating, active as they were even before the meds and during deaths. I bring this up because there is a solo Oto here. If he/she pulls through the meds and I have no more issues there I will try and pull them as well and put them in the Accidental tank. 

Edited November 24, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
rearranging...

[Hobbit]

Loved catching up on this thread! Your captioned photos are hilarious. Everything looks great!

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Full bellys on those cocamas. Best. Impulse. Buy. Ever!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Beardedbillygoat1975 yea I'm pretty happy I did that, they are very cool additions to this tank even if they don't end up spawning for me. 

[Guppysnail]

I am so happy for you that you are enjoying such great successes. It always warms my heart when folks fish efforts are rewarded with prolific fish 🥰

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA AND VITTATUS: The Accidental Oto Tank

Testing Day (1 day earlier than usual) So this week I discovered a big ole error in one of my digital thermometers. Just so happens it's the one in my only heated tank. It said my tank was at 67 degrees. IMPOSSIBLE. The heater seemed to be working fine as the water was warm. I tested the water it was a full 10+degrees warmer with the heater. I raised my eyebrow in distrust. I use the same aquarium thermometer (granted some are marked with different brands but they are the same silly thing) in all my tanks. So I, on a hunch unplugged the heater and let it sit and the ONLY heated tank I had was a heated tank no longer as it sat without one at 76 degrees! Palm to Face thank you. So naturally I'm distrustful of my other thermometers and have discovered 1 of 4 is pretty close to accurate (Parent Tank) the other 2 are off a degree (including the Accidental tank) and the last one I haven't tested yet as it's being treated by meds and I didn't want to test with my other thermometers yet. 

Since I was already doing the heat test today I did the water testing too so you'll see a drop in degrees: 

Temp: 76.5 (-0.3 degrees - no heater)

pH 7.6 (steady on)

Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 40 (good lawd what's gonna change this)

KH 6/107.4 (no change)

GH 125.3 (no change)

OTOCINCLUS VITTATUS: From the Angry Man Tank: Since it was also tank water change day for some of my tanks (usually due to testing results or because it's time), I managed to catch what is possibly the last Oto Vittatus out of the Angry Man tank as I spoke of in last entry after a long chase. I released them into The Accidental tank and hopefully it will be better off there. I will check periodically for any potential straglers. 

 NOW: I leave you with pictures. My Vittatus babies are super happy fat little things, the smallest is doing well but not as big as their siblings here:

I got a pretty fantastic (by my standards when compared to my other pics 😄) shot of 1 of the Cocama (buddy in background), I can see all their pretty little details: 

Edited November 25, 2021 by xXInkedPhoenixX
rearranging...

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA (TIGER): The Accidental Oto Tank

Just proof that even the Cocama have learned where the food bowl is....

[Torrey]

ORD🥰