The Accidental Oto Keeper

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@CT_ firstly, good to know about the air/catfish thing. I'll have to do a little research on that for the heck of it thanks! 

Secondly, wouldn't have taken it as a criticism as I agree, weirdly you'd think soilent would be the #1 based on some information out there- and I DO have it- but they are less enthusiastic about eating Soilent and nearly always finish the Super Green. Here is MY opinion. All the research I've done for Otos as a species in the world says they are primarily HERBIVORES. Super Green has no animal protein that I can see. Whereas Soilent DOES, and they are actually pretty high on the list and include other kinds of proteins. I've heard/seen a lot of people feeding their Otos high protein including things like bloodworms/blackworm but I've not actually seen anyone at least here documenting the same things I do. I've fed my Otos bloodworms (maybe less than 4 times and mostly recently to try) but I'm not really convinced they're keen on them- only some of them get eaten most of it I clean up. Do they eat them by accident (because mine are fed in bowls)? Here's my armchair theory, they're omnivores by (and this is my favorite word here) accident- they live in rivers so of course just by the way they eat they'll end up getting trace animal protein from the surfaces they attach to which is why they're not opposed to eating animal protein it's just not their first choice. I've had a similar discussion about this on this page before- and my observations in keeping them have backed this amateur theory.

[CT_]

Interesting.  Someone else on here got them breeding by blending in freeze dried blood worms with vegetables and chia seeds.  I've never actually seen what they eat in the wild, only internet accounts of "afwuchs" (I forget how to spell that), which is biofilm slime and micro crustaceans.  I think you mentioned your common otos eat the hikari micro wafers too?  I think those are mostly "meat" too.  but its hard to argue with results.  I kinda want to try out super green now but I have a cupboard full of fish foods now and my wife looks at me funny whenever she opens that one.  Natural biofilms though are usually pretty high in protein too though, so I wonder.  Maybe they do just want high protein(higher than just "vegetables") but mostly from microbes.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Yes, @CT_ Hikari Wafers definitely have protein, the animal protein being pretty high. I think they are definitely keen on animal protein of some kind in their diet as I've raised most of mine on Hikari wafers alone. Of course there's plenty of greens that have protein- spirulina for example. I just find it interesting that when given the choice the Super Green is always eaten first. I'm just curious to know if it's a side effect of them being herbivores. I'll probably never know for sure. I have seen some people say they blend up worms of several kinds. I think maybe in the end it's just the protein itself that triggers spawning but again that's just an armchair theory I have- like you mentioned chia- wonder how much of the chia protein was the trigger for the spawn vs the animal protein. 

I wish more people would document their breediing of Otos here, I've only seen people mention it and not update or post regularly about it. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Colu]

The parasite that causes whirling disease is myxobolus cerebalis higher temperatures over 70F it  slows the life cycle of the parasite checking it's spread at higher temperatures won't help fish already infected naladixic acid has proven effective at treating some types of fish with whirling disease if there not showing any improvement with Expel p then I would treat with AAP aquatronics naladin 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Colu

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Colu why you gotta pick one of the only medications I don't have? 😃

I have seen some pond posts that are saying Nitrofurazone and Para Guard or Super Ich Plus works, I have Furan 2 still and API super ick also Paraguard. I also saw a post somewhere in my travels that Kanaplex combined with something else worked. I'll have to see what to do when I get home. (I think it was Kanaplex and General Cure)

Edited March 5, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Colu]

On 3/5/2022 at 1:39 AM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

@Colu why you gotta pick one of the only medications I don't have? 😃

I have seen some pond posts that are saying Nitrofurazone and Para Guard or Super Ich Plus works, I have Furan 2 still and API super ick also Paraguard. I also saw a post somewhere in my travels that Kanaplex combined with something else worked. I'll have to see what to do when I get home. 

I look in my veterinary book and that recommend using naladixic acid I  have looked to see if they are other effective treatment kanaplex  can be used it says to treat for an extended period up to 3 months  to treat whirling disease and can be combined with nitrofurazone or metronidazole keep them Qarantined if they die they will release million of spores  its a difficult disease to treat with a low success rate 50/50 at best I don't how well Otto's will respond to long term exposure to a powerful antibiotic medication like kanaplex I have only use two courses of treatment back to back 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Colu

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Colu ok, home, the poor fish has manifested symptoms now, super red in the belly area but still alive. Now what?

[Colu]

 you could  start treating with kanaplex and see if they start to improve theirs a chance the kanaplex will help if you think their suffering you might have to consider humanely euthanizeing  with clove@xXInkedPhoenixX

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Ok yeah I agree @Colu I've dosed meds. I moved them to a 2 gallon. I decided to treat with Furan 2 (which I already had a 2 gallon dose on hand) and Kanaplex. At this point I have no idea what it is.  I have clove oil on hand but I'll have to see what things look like in the morning. I did a good sized water change on the 3 gallon with the other 9 everyone still seems ok in there. Should I dose anything with them for preventative or?

[Colu]

On 3/5/2022 at 3:04 AM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Ok yeah I agree @Colu I've dosed meds. I moved them to a 2 gallon. I decided to treat with Furan 2 (which I already had a 2 gallon dose on hand) and Kanaplex. At this point I have no idea what it is.  I have clove oil on hand but I'll have to see what things look like in the morning. I did a good sized water change on the 3 gallon with the other 9 everyone still seems ok in there. Should I dose anything with them for preventative or?

If the tank has been over 70F your other fish should be fine as the parasite don't reproduce at the higher temperatures above 60F  unless one of the infected fish died in that tank and released spores that can infect other fish if that happened I would do a proventive treatment of kanaplex 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Colu

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Ok thanks @Colu. Yes they've been over 70 the whole time but I'm not even positive if it is the true whirling disease because of course other things can cause the symptom. I'll probably never know for sure but here we go, got my seatbelt on AGAIN with my Otos. 😔 

[Colu]

On 3/5/2022 at 3:16 AM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Ok thanks @Colu. Yes they've been over 70 the whole time but I'm not even positive if it is the true whirling disease because of course other things can cause the symptom. I'll probably never know for sure but here we go, got my seatbelt on AGAIN with my Otos. 😔 

Good luck hopefully they will be a good out come

Edited March 5, 2022 by Colu

[Odd Duck]

@Colu is on the mark.  Start with your Kanaplex and Furacin combo since clearly this kiddo is in deep trouble.  Order the Naladin since others may have been exposed before you got them and it appears to be the most effective treatment.  The sooner you can get it, then better.  When you get it, do a water change and start it ASAP.  Hoping you can beat the odds for this baby, but brace yourself.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA (TIGER): The 2 and 3 Gallon QTs and the Cocama Hotel (that was abandonded)

Well fishy friends. The Oto that I placed into the 2 gallon last night did not make it. The redness was no longer evident- though the fish's natural coloring was still dark and pretty, everywhere else was super pale and the tummy looked well, less than full. It was disappointing but not unexpected. So the 2 gallon was put out of commission again. 

Everyone in the 3 gallon that I could see looked decent- one attached to the side looked healthy and belly full. 

At @Colu and @Odd Duck recommendation I went on the hunt for Naladin- boy that's not a super easy one to find but there is a pond/aquatics store online that does. So a couple of packages of that, along with a couple other of the brand's meds that looked super useful were also put in a cart and purchased.

I got AAP Nitrofuracin Green- which contains Nitrofurazone (the true nitros are "out of stock" of course) along with Sulfathiazole Sodium, & Methylene Blue which seems a useful med. I also got AAP Super Ick Plus because, why not! Bye bye 50 bucks, but hey, I got free shipping. 🙄

Thankfully it's shipping a state north of me so I'm hoping I'll get it mid-week if the company ships today or monday, then I'll start treatment. 

The Cocama Hotel is clearing up as well. It's possible I can put them back there this coming week or next. 

[Minanora]

On 2/20/2022 at 8:14 AM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Do you all have this experience? All of my LFS don't answer their phones. I get a couple of them not answering as they are ALWAYS pretty busy but the one I'm trying to get O.Cocama from- I walk in and yes there are people there but there are 4-5 employees and not all of them are busy. It's a very small store. Thankfully it's only 10 minutes from my house. 

My LFS answers their phones but they generally fail at calling back, or calling you when you're on a waiting list for a fish. I was on the waiting list for chili rasboras for several months, came in and checked to see if they had them many times; because I also have trust issues. WELL, I went in while ago and sure enough, boom, tank with chili rasboras in it. They get fish in on Thursdays... I went in on a Wednesday, which means they had those little buggers for almost a week, at the least. My LFS also fails at replying to emails. Though they do read them thankfully.

I spent the last few evenings catching up with your rollercoaster ride. I'm so sad to read about everything with the Cocama patient, the babies and all the other storms you've weathered. I hope you get more Cocamas soon though, that would be neat! I have had some choice words over natures surprise curveballs myself.

My 5 otos hide inside the right side spiderwood in my 75 now and I RARELY see any of them out. I'm so sad. They used to play and be out all of the time. I'm scared to get any more otos for fear of losses, but I wonder still if they would come out and play more if I had a larger number of them.

Anyway, I hope things level out for you and you get some more spawns soon.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Minanora yes that was a ride I really don't care to take again. Some very hard lessons learned and I still beat myself up about it. I'm hoping my future care makes up for it. 

Lol, ohhhhh LFS 😑

I'm sure your Otos come out. They generally do at night- I like to watch my Accidental Oto tank just a bit after the lights go off and just before they come on (and a little after). They are very active then. Just because they hide during the day doesn't mean they aren't happy. 🙂 I'm sure you do a fine job. 

[Colu]

On 3/5/2022 at 5:28 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA (TIGER): The 2 and 3 Gallon QTs and the Cocama Hotel (that was abandonded)

Well fishy friends. The Oto that I placed into the 2 gallon last night did not make it. The redness was no longer evident- though the fish's natural coloring was still dark and pretty, everywhere else was super pale and the tummy looked well, less than full. It was disappointing but not unexpected. So the 2 gallon was put out of commission again. 

Everyone in the 3 gallon that I could see looked decent- one attached to the side looked healthy and belly full. 

At @Colu and @Odd Duck recommendation I went on the hunt for Naladin- boy that's not a super easy one to find but there is a pond/aquatics store online that does. So a couple of packages of that, along with a couple other of the brand's meds that looked super useful were also put in a cart and purchased.

I got AAP Nitrofuracin Green- which contains Nitrofurazone (the true nitros are "out of stock" of course) along with Sulfathiazole Sodium, & Methylene Blue which seems a useful med. I also got AAP Super Ick Plus because, why not! Bye bye 50 bucks, but hey, I got free shipping. 🙄

Thankfully it's shipping a state north of me so I'm hoping I'll get it mid-week if the company ships today or monday, then I'll start treatment. 

The Cocama Hotel is clearing up as well. It's possible I can put them back there this coming week or next. 

Sorry to hear they didn't make it you did the best you could 

[Odd Duck]

@xXInkedPhoenixXSorry about your fishy, but thank you for trying so hard.

It makes me realize I want to improve my fishy first aid kit a bit. With my recent losses, I feel the need to be better prepared and act even faster beyond just water change and salt and tannins (IAL, rooibos, etc) when I first notice changes.  I don’t want to have to order something.  I’d rather keep it on hand.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Odd Duck this is something I've tried to avoid but apparently you can't have everything. You'd think I have things covered with: 

Ich X, Api super Ick, Fritz Maracyn and Maracyn II, Kanaplex, Tetra Lifeguard, API Furan2 (I got a 3 pack a while before it got taken off the shelves), Nitrofurazone flake food, Fritz Expel P and Paracleanse, API General Cure, Garlic Guard and now the 3 meds on the way besides aquarium salt and regular shipments of IAL. 

I also have it set up in my Aquarium Note app to advise me when the expiration dates of all of the above are coming a month beforehand so I can put it on order. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

MOVES FOR THE FUTURE: The Parent Tank and The Angry Man tank. 

So, having some extra time this week I decided this morning was the morning that I would start the moves towards the future of the O.Cocama (provided I have no further losses and/or concerns with my new batch). (The new meds come today though who knows with how the mail runs possibly tomorrow)

As discussed before I'd decided that the Accidental Tank could house no more Otos satisfactorily, so I'd decided that my original fish -since starting this hobby anew- my 10 beautiful Harlequin Rasboras would move to my Angry Man tank with the Black Neons. Then when the O.Cocama are done with QT they will move to my Parent Tank. Of my six tanks the Angry Man is my favorite tank visually. The plants are growing in nicely as I add more "red" needle leaf and bacopa. I even have some true red plants growing with Ludwigia Super Red (which isn't super red in my low tech tank but it's a different color and texture than all my other green plants so I could give a...nevermind). There is no algae to speak of thanks to the 3 wonderful Horned Nerites and their bladder snail (under control because I don't overfeed) army. The lighting is dialed in and it's my pretty much maintenance free tank (though I do a small water change weekly anyway because like most of my other tanks despite the plants and super light stocking with only 10 Black Neons still runs 40-80 Nitrate). As is my style, no heater, no ferts. I am by no means an @Guppysnail and not even in the neighborhood of an @Mmiller2001 but I LOVE this tank- however I don't post about it here because A) No Otos and this is an Oto thread- I had to pull them out because the snails would eat all the food and I lost some of the Otos I'd put in here. B) Posts anywhere else about this tank would be rather boring with me just blathering on about how I did nothing with this tank because it is perfect and how dang pretty *I* think it is. 

My concerns though were- will it work? Are they going to get along? Too many middle dwellers for a 20 Tall? As we all know in this hobby things go wrong and we all do a bit of worrying. I'm constantly coming up with back up plan after back up plan- it takes away my stress over this hobby, which thankfully is very, very little. It's actually one of my few joys despite my recent traumas (still trying to get over the loss of my pop eye patient). 

So this morning I tested the water with Tetra O strips. As I figured they are super close. The colors were even closer than what you can see in the pic but there are only slight differences (the right strip is slightly shadowed by me taking the picture)- not enough at all to be concerned with. 

I wasn't worried about water parameters these two tanks sit side by side and aren't far off in their testing. Temp not a concern either though the Angry Man runs just a tad warmer than the Parent tank does but that's likely because I have the Parent Tank's light turned down quite a bit due to taller Amazon and frequent issues with hair algae on top of it. This is how they sit (pic taken after the tank switch): 

So after grabbing a net(s) and my handy Aquarium Co-Op Catch Cup to hang outside the tank filled with water from both tanks- I set to work catching my Harlies. Holy moly, they gave me a run for the money- and my plants don't help. God forbid I ever have to try and catch the Otos in there, I'd just have to pull that whole tank apart. 😑 Thankfully, though it seemed like forever, I think I caught 8 of them within about 10 minutes after discovering the "trick" to get them in the net. 2 of them were hiding pretty good in the Amazon and under my pot arch in the middle. So I let the first 8 go not knowing how long it would be until I got the other 2. Honestly I was completely surprised at how almost immediately ALL the fish mingled and didn't seem the least bit stressed after that episode. No crazy swimming, no freaked out fish. Good. So I went back to catching the other two. One of which seemed to be trying to get to his buddies now in the Angry tank as they were all the way on the left side and swimming in place up against the glass. I caught the other two in about the same time it took for me to catch the 8 (the last ones of anything always the hardest). I put them in the Angry tank and they kinda huddled together for a bit, so I poked at the glass and they joined their friends and everything has been seemingly ok since. It's really nice to see the Harlequins in there too since the Black Neons, as pretty as their colors are, don't stand out in that tank as you can see they kind of match the colors. Only their little orange eyes stand out but that's only if you're close. I never minded that but it's good to have a pop of color with my pretty Harlequins. 

So it's been a few hours since I've added them and I watch from my chair as I multi-task watching my other tanks, the O.Cocama on the table nearby in the plastic QT and streaming a show. Things I think are going to be just fine here and I think I love this tank even more. 🙃

Edited March 7, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX
rearranging...

[Mmiller2001]

Nice, they both look really good! I've completely given up on catching fish. If it wasn't for my wife, I'd be in real trouble!

[Guppysnail]

Those are beautiful. I love the bead river. It makes me feel like I actually am in the jungle walking up on a carved statue cave. 

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA (TIGER): The Cocama Hotel

So yesterday I got the medication shipment. I spent $50 to get free shipping but to also have some extra, useful meds around- I also actually like to give small businesses more money when I can. One thing that annoyed me is that the company didn't have the medication containing Nitrofurazone in stock (I wasn't shocked but surprised that even combinations of meds with the ingredient wouldn't be an option) so instead of contacting me and asking if there's anything else I wanted instead they "refunded" me $2.94. The medication was 10.99. So obviously they took it upon themselves to charge me shipping. 8 bucks. I know shipping is expensive but it didn't cost them 8 to send me a very small box (2 envelopes and a small bottle). I would have purchased something else. Small companies can learn something from ACO. Who knows, whatever I'd replaced it with could have made them more money had they bothered. 2nd thing. The Naladin has been repackaged. They might get it in bulk and I did receive what you're supposed to in the little vials as in the picture @Colu had previously posted here. I'm sure this small company is probably trying to brand it in a way and maybe they get these vials in bulk therefore have to repackage them. It's basically a reprinted paper with the instructions on the back, a little heavier than letter paper and then stapled and taped around the product. Not super professional looking. I guess as long as it's the right thing then I shouldn't complain. I'm more irked about the former rather than the latter.

Very glad the bacterial bloom in the Cocama Hotel (formerly known as the Accidental Nursery) went away in the last week. Since I got the meds late yesterday and there was still some Kanaplex in the 3 Gallon QT I opted at my and at the risk of the fish to leave the 9 remaining Cocama there until this morning. It's easier to dose a 5 gallon tank than a 3- and easier for my timings when they start in the morning when I do my maintenance. 

So this morning after strip testing (ok!), I placed the sponge filter that was with them in the 3 gallon into the Hotel and left the one I already had in there runnning for some extra agitation. I pulled the large piece of Mopani out from the 5 gallon as well- I needed the extra space for the 2nd sponge. I left the other piece of Mopani in the 3 gallon. I caught the 9 most of them were really docile about being caught a couple of them more feisty (one got caught pretty good on the shrimp net I used- they're probably pretty stressed but I don't think they got injured). I put them in the Cocama Hotel got them replacement food for the day and dosed the tank. 

Since I had some left over meds (each capsule treats 10 gallons so I had to split it open) I figured I won't have a lot of chance to use this medication again before it expires (hopefully). I thought it would be prudent to treat the 3 gallon- where ultimately the Mopani wood with the attached plants will stay until treatment is over and I pull one of the sponges. @Odd Duck or @Colu does treating an empty tank make sense? I think so but then I second guess it. Anyhow I dumped the rest of the capsule meds in the 3 gallon. I also boiled the floating breeder, airstones, suction cups and airline connectors that ran the tank the sick Cocama was in, tossed the airline in the garbage. 

The meds recommend a 50% water change after 24hours. Hopefully I'll have no further losses. They look healthy and have good coloring but sadly so did the one that passed until the symptoms started- had no idea they were sick. I'm crossing fingers.

 

[whomeverwiz]

So cool to see this...my very first tank setup last May before I knew anything about this hobby, I had 5 otocinclus macropilus.. along with a platy, 2 dwarf gouramis, and 5 green neon tetras. Within a week, we saw fry! I was unconvinced, but my 8 yo daughter was relentless. Eventually she pointed them out. After some research, I was sure that they were from the platy who was probably a pregnant female, then I thought they were eggs that came in on some plants. Now though, after recalling the way they moved just like otos, I think they may have been! I only ever saw about 2 or 3. They would flip around like crazy, and then settle down into the substrate, and were super-tiny. I always loved otos the most, and I'm inspired to try making some new ones even though I know it may take forever or never work at all. Thanks for your story!

Edited March 9, 2022 by whomeverwiz

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@whomeverwiz Welcome to the forum, and thank you. Oto babies are one of the coolest things I've ever come across and it's made me love these little fish even more. There's never a whole lot of them but when you can catch them and make them grow it's a lot of fun. Glad you like my story. I'm trying to keep it going. 🙂