xXInkedPhoenixX

I say break down the tank. Take the break you couldn't get in the summer, now. Rethink and redo later! 🙃 Just my 2 🪙

@Odd Duck thanks for that. I've admittedly just been feeding them a thawed frozen bloodworm up to 2x a day. I've been using aquascaping tweezers to target feed them all as 3 of the 4 aren't really up to hunting (the Dumbo is the only one I'm feeding regular foods as she's willing and able to chase them). I'm concerned about starting meds on the Crowntail male- what makes you think Expel P or Paracleanse might be the best med to start with? I was wondering if Kanaplex might be better- at least for the Crowntail- first because I'm not sure really what is wrong with him...more on that in a second.... Yesterday I stopped at a different big box and of course no frozen but I got freeze dried "Betta dial a treats" I'm sure most of us have seen the trio of freeze dried foods (Mysis, Bloodworms, Daphnia) so I figured I'd try that. I got home after my shift and started their feedings and water changes. The white Twintail Halfmoon male ate a piece of freeze dried Daphnia fine (with the guidance of the aquascaping tweezers). He also easily took a bloodworm this morning. He's doing a bit better than he was at the beginning- his fins/tail are usually spread wide, he stays mostly upright (as opposed to on his side in the beginning). He does at times swim sort of normally but seems to struggle a little bit with it- like if I drop a piece of food seems he has a hard time getting to the bottom to eat it so I usually pick it up. I also sometimes catch him, when he stops actively swimming, slightly going onto his side. He mostly hangs out along the top of the tank. He's doing his best to act "normal". The red Crowntail male is the one of most concern for me. While he's very slightly better off than he was from day one he's not showing any consistent improvement- but I do give him credit for still being here and it's not yet even been a week and the fact that he does eat. He ate a piece of daphnia with the guidance of the tweezers, and ate a couple of pieces of bloodworm this morning. He still hangs out mostly in the corners of the tank as he has discovered that's the easiest way for him to stay upright- otherwise he goes sideways still. The GloBetta female- she's a mystery to me and probably the 2nd one I'm most concerned about in rankings. While at first she regained some red coloring in her tail it has all but been lost. She hangs out at the bottom of the tank, mostly- but yesterday after shift I checked on her and she was swimming casually around the tank. So I tried to feed her some daphnia and a few floating pellets. She chased them but not agressively- kind of slowly- so I don't know if that's just her limited ability or her personality- she seemed to have eaten something- I did witness her catch a piece of daphnia but seemed too big so she let it loose. This morning I tried to feed her a bloodworm and this is how it's been going: She looks at her food but does not take it from the tweezers- so I leave it on the bottom of the tank near her. Sometimes she nibbles at it sometimes she doesn't- I wasn't able to wait to see this morning if she ate them but I guess I may find any leftovers when I check later during water change time. The purple Dumbo female- I'm not concerned about her at all. She's always swimming, always seeking attention when I'm near the tank- and a voracious eater. Of the 4 I believe she's not going to be a problem. She ate the daphnia last night and begged for her morning bloodworm, I also gave her a few flakes of Xtreme Krill which she chased and ate. I'll probably give it until Sunday or Monday and assess the medication options/situations. Here is a pic of all 4 of them yesterday:

There are 2 things I have in my house I would try if the scratch isn't super deep. Wenol (most sites say metal polish but I've used it on plastics of all sorts as it was a known trick and it worked great- since it's multipurpose it's always in my house- it's non abrasive). You can also try a decent automotive hand polisher- I use Adam's Hand Polish- while I haven't used it on anything household it's worked miracles on all parts of my cars.

@rockfisher good to hear from you, thanks for checking in!

Hey! I have one like the square one in this link, you can use it upside down so the deeper part is in the water: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B091FQZRS2/ref=sspa_dk_detail_5?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B091FQZRS2&pd_rd_w=iCKra&content-id=amzn1.sym.dd2c6db7-6626-466d-bf04-9570e69a7df0&pf_rd_p=dd2c6db7-6626-466d-bf04-9570e69a7df0&pf_rd_r=EZBBSCRQZPNJRHXF7VNB&pd_rd_wg=TdW0E&pd_rd_r=1f9b3dcd-12a9-486e-bb35-a4dac215827d&s=pet-supplies&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9kZXRhaWxfdGhlbWF0aWM&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyVVlHTElaREhTWUVJJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUExMDAxNTI5M0dFQ0hUQk1RQ0NIViZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTI3NDQxM0s5R0k1Rzc5R01FOCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbF90aGVtYXRpYyZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

Some sort of minnow?

OK cool, the salt treatment should hopefully help I'd keep an eye on her for changes for a few days and maybe fast her if you think it might be an overfeeding/constipation problems- not uncommon with Betta. If something else comes up or no changes give us an update! One of our members suggests daphnia for constipation as Betta are carnivores, in case you feel the need to feed.

Hi @Alec, I would look for any signs of pineconing- bloating can be a sign of issues other than constipation and if she has something like dropsy it's best to try and treat right away. If no pineconing you can try fasting the fish for a few days and or Epsom salt soaks which are done for only 10-15 minute increments (lots of threads with this kind of treatment described).

@venzi, sorry African Dwarf Frog

Oh my so sorry @flyingcow. Poor Little Buddy. In having observed my Bolivian since I got him I'd thought earlier in his adoption that I'd get a girl for him but I don't really want to breed. Now months later in watching his personality I think it's best he's the solo bottom dweller (even gave up on the idea of some cory because it's a 20 tall and there's not a whole lot of turf). Though classified as "peaceful" I have seen they definitely need their space. I saw on another board I'm on someone even put one of their German Blue Rams on "time out" for being a jerk to other fish. Anyhow, sorry for your loss, but just wanted to validate that I think your decision to let Big Buddy be the lone wolf is the right choice.

@redfish nothin special, like you just jugs from drinking water- when one gets worn out I go and buy another- very convenient. They're also square Crystal Geyser gallons so they store easier than some. Mine definitely change color just because of the "tea" I use. I don't have a lot of the same concerns other fish keepers do about water changes, the water is "aged", dechlorinated and has plenty of IAL in them. My system really does help with temperature as the water is stored in the same room my tanks are- and I don't use heaters so no concerns really. I do have a heater in my Betta tank but using room temp water doesn't really bring his tank temp down at all.

@TheSwissAquarist I haven't tried BBS yet on them as only the Dumbo girl seems up to "hunting" food, plus in a way I'd like to try and monitor what and how much they are eating. I will give purple girl some BBS when I feed my other tanks that usually on fridays. @Odd Duck as it usually happens I have everything but what other people advise- so I haven't tried daphnia yet- I have to get to the LFS as the big box stores have been woefully lacking in the frozen foods lately (I'm lucky to find BBS or Bloodworms lately- though they might have freeze dried). I have adult frozen brine but those are usually rejected by my other fish but do you think that will be similar? They're rather large so I'd have to maybe cut them up a little. I have Expel and Paracleanse. I think I could start Dumbo girl on that fine but what do you think about the others, any opinion on when I should?

@venzi I am only using the 5w model (I know, too small for a 10 gallon but since it only needs a 3 degree bump or so it seems to work well). and I just use the suction cup for it along the back wall- it seems to stick well. BTW I also have one in my Mum's ADF tank which is 5.5 gallons (more like 5 because of the substrate etc) and it works well there too. Her house is a lot chillier than mine.

Hi all, just a small update. So a few days later now everyone alive and everyone eating but GloBetta girl is hit and miss- she has now seemingly declined despite the initial color gain has lost color again and really just sits on the bottom of the tank- sometimes she will eat sometimes she will not. I'm not really worried about Dumbo girl- she is consistently active and (voraciously) eating, no body damage and no signs of any swim bladder issues as I'd originally seen in her cup- so that's good. The Twintail Halfmoon male (white) is better but still mostly floats along the top of his tank- though upright- and he will swim frantically across the tank when startled or swim towards food aggressively, even towards the bottom of the tank though it seems to take effort- he may have some sort of swim bladder issue but I still cannot tell. The red Crowntail male is the one of most concern still- though he eats well he is not able to stay upright- he has discovered staying in the corner in a curved position keeps him upright- so if eating gets him out of the corner I usually spot him there shortly after. Due to a very early shift I wasn't able to check on them this morning or do a water change but I will when I get home. Hoping they are all still with me and I get to see some improvement! 🤞 These are pics from the 1st of Oct: (yes, there is a reflection of a skull in top left corner pic- Halloween approach-eth....)

Hi @venzi As a low tech tank keeper I'm not a fan of heaters, I find them cumbersome, ugly and unreliable- so I get it. You will get mixed reviews no matter WHAT heater you mention. I picked fish that wouldn't need them UNTIL I got a betta. I keep him in a 10 gallon tank that runs pretty warm on its own (between 72-78)- but Bettas should have 80-82 degree water. So I'm using the Aqueon flat heater for the very reasons you are looking at it- less to really go wrong. Now the disadvantage is it can stop working and you may not know- or go wonky and overheat. In this case you can get something called a pymeter from somewhere like amazon- plug the heater in through that and it will turn the heater on and off within your temperature preferences! I am not currently using my personal pymeter with my Betta tank since the tank doesn't get that cold and I monitor it that closely- the small flat heater from Aqueon keeps the tank at 80 for me. And that's in a 10 gallon!

I have a rather complex water prep system. Since I only have 5 tanks all under 20 gallons I have 10, one gallon water jugs on standby for water changes. First I boil 1-3 Indian Almond or Catappa leaves in a stockpot, once boiling I turn off the heat and put the lid on the pot let steep anywhere from 12-24 hours. Once I'm ready to make the water I pour approximately 2-3 inches of the above tea into each of my water jugs. Fill the bottles the rest of the way from tap (cold water as the hot water seems to have more trace elements in it- old house) Dechlorinate with Fritz water conditioner (4-10 drops per gallon per Fritz when I inquired with them directly) Let stand overnight typically with caps off (don't know why but I've always done this maybe it was old school information about gassing off). Usually between 12-24 hours later put the caps on and store until needed. Sounds like a lot but my water changes in the 20s are usually no more than 3 gallons if that- I have 2 tanks that hover in the 10 gallon range which only get a 1 gallon water change if that- and 1 tank is only 4 gallons and I only use a cup to remove floaters (duckweed and red roots that LOVE this tank) once a week or so since they overpopulate. It takes me a bit to use all 10 gallons, usually a couple of weeks at the least. I actually don't mind doing it either- and I've had healthier fish since the addition of the IAL.

Thanks everyone for your support of this wackadoo adventure- I appreciate the words of encouragement @PineSong @TheSwissAquarist @KatGoneFishing (I probably would have done that too) @Katherine @Flumpweesel (it would be cool if more stores at least would do a betta sorority more often) and of course @Colu for your advice as always though it looks like I can hold off on the epsom soaks SO FAR. @meadeam I agree, but I'd at least have less of a problem with it if these big box stores wouldn't act like they are the place to go for pets (which they do an "ok" job for cats and dogs but not IMO so much for the other critters)- if they would train their people how to at least change water in the Betta cups and look for signs of illness. If they'd stock less of them then they wouldn't have issues with long term "residents" and treat them more like animals with lives than stock or product. I have to say even my LFS where I got Koianu my resident Betta kept their Bettas in even smaller cups than the big box- but they also have far less of them and hopefully sell faster. So after having eaten this morning because they are in small QT I tend to do a small water change every day to clean the bottom/check in, add some salt and etc. As mentioned the boys not doing a whole lot better than yesterday, they pretty much float at the tops of their tanks- they'll move when prompted but it's in a frantic sort of way. The white Halfmoon Twintail male is more upright at least than he was yesterday though still staying at the top: The red Crowntail male is the one of the most concern right now for me. He's still alive, glad he ate but isn't really changing much yet: The GloBetta girl is a quirky one- a lot like my last GloBetta female who made me swear off Betta keeping cause she broke my heart. These bettas aren't like other bettas I've kept- they have some sort of weird ethereal intelligence I can't put my finger on. Anyway, she's less clamped and regaining the bright red coloring in her tail: The Dumbo female is doing the best of all of them still- I don't see any body damage and she's swimming and acting normally today- no signs of the potential swim bladder symptoms I saw yesterday: The girls I'm treating normally- they're in a bright warm area of the house. The boys since they're clearly more sick and stressed are covered with a towel along the tops of their tanks to reduce any sounds/drafts/bright lights. Here's hoping things look better tomorrow!

Either way, because I like them both-Male or Female- it's a beautiful fish

Congrats! Very pretty! That's a girl?! She's got some mega fins for one!

So just an update. They all made it overnight- the boys don't look any different- they look terrible and are just floating along the top of their tanks. The girls are acting much better. The GloBetta seems to have unclamped some which is a good sign. ALL FOUR ATE A PIECE OF BLOODWORM!

Thanks for letting us know @Guppysnail. I am still concerned about @rockfisher as that area did not fare well with the storm surge so I'm hoping it's just power and internet loss and nothing more than that!

Sure thing! Cant wait to see the tank!

Yes so THIS just happened....makes me think of @modified lung's journal and the comment having been rethinking one's life choices... A COLOSSAL IDIOT walks into a pet store....(an illustrated tail - intentional misspelling- of woe)

Oh the path to good pet parenting is paved with many evil obstacles. I went to the local big box store- as one does when you have a mixed pet household- I have 2 cats and lots of fish- so it's convenient to come here to pick up a couple of things. Sadly on this day I had a little more time to kill- I'm normally a shopping ninja- in and out within minutes- just grabbing those things I intentionally went in for- list in hand if necessary. I was meeting someone for lunch so instead today- I moseyed. BAD. FRICKIN. IDEA. One of my rules is to totally AVOID (DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER!)- looking at the Bettas. Personal side note: Twas not long ago that I swore off Betta keeping FOREVER because of how hard a fish they are to keep- only breaking my intended oath several months later and very recently by buying Koianu- my Koi male Betta pictured here: They are not easy fish to keep. All my other fish and tanks do well but Betta keeping has eluded me- so for their sake- I stopped trying. Koianu has actually been doing well- however soon it is to tell. Anyhow, as you may have guessed. I made the mistake of looking. All of us I know have done that and seen sick, dying or dead Bettas. On this particular day here in sunny pre-fall there actually weren't that many Betta on display. Making the percentage of these sad Bettas rather on the very high side. I first spotted the one and only Glo Betta fish- a sad flourescent yellow female. She was so clamped and her fins so short and colorless (seems she has some red coloring on her fins given the chance) that she looks more like a glo worm than a fish. Her container was terribly dirty...she must have been on the shelf a long while- I could see what is possibly her slime coat floating in the container too. She was listless and unmoving. UGHHHHH. THEN I saw a purple and white female Dumbo Betta. She was trying her darnedest to swim normally, fighting to get to the bottom then floating up and ultimately giving up the fight, laying on her side....what seemed to me a clear case of swim bladder. I looked at all the other fish and there were a couple more with similar states. Because girls are usually last picked ESPECIALLY when they are sick I thought about my home situation. Could I care for them properly in QT? And if they both made it, did I have somewhere they could permanently go? The answer ultimately was yes. I have plenty of QT tanks, and if they both made it, one could stay with me in my Flex9 with Guppies and Endlers. The other could go to my Mum's tank- and she would likely gladly take her in- whichever she was. So I picked them up and took them to the counter. It was easy enough to get a discount on them- for 50% off after asking nicely. I could have pushed it but I'd rather them go home with me and cost than stay there. So because I had time I ran home and set them up in QT then ran back out for lunch. This is the poor GloBetta: This is the dirty container the poor Glo Betta was living in: This is the poor, tiny, Dumbo Betta (bottom right pic is a little bit exagerrated due to reflection but she was a little bent looking) but you can see she's swimming a bit sideways: So I went to lunch. Well drove that direction....the person I was meeting texted me JUST as I was getting into the parking lot of the restaurant- they informed me they were delayed and were leaving in 5 minutes- instantly giving me a 30 minute wait window.... ....something was already weighing on my mind as I drove over there and I was talking myself out of the guilt I felt....then suddently this time window opened and my first and only thought was.....go get the others....go get the others... Yeah. One of those stories. 1 in particular made me want to go back. A white Twintail Halfmoon male Betta. He was on his side at the top of his cup. I didn't take him when I got the females because I thought well, of the 3 the boy would be more likely to sell even sick than the girls.. Honestly I thought I was just lying to myself but one has to be practical as you cannot save them all- but I thought really? Could I not? Well. I said to myself. I have another QT tank at home- I could easily take care of one more. You know what I did next. I drove back to the box store. Went straight to the Bettas for the white one- but someone else held me up. A red male Crowntail. Also totally on his side at the top of his cup. Which is weird since they always sell very well. Ok, think- which one do you take. What a crap decision- "which one do I send to its death!" screams in my head. Argh! I avoided looking at ANYONE else while standing there. I convinced myself everyone else was fine if I couldn't see them. But these 2 needed someone. Which one though? I only had 1 QT. Or did I? I walked down the tank aisle.....what could one do.....I see a 2.5 gallon glass tank. 20 bucks not bad for a quick QT tank but I don't like using glass tanks for QT...but wait...I was using a plastic QT for my plant "extras". Light. Bulb. Picture if you will, a grown adult, reusable shopping bag in hand, inside that bag is a 2.5 gallon glass tank, and inside that is 2 cups, each holding a sick or dying male Betta fish- that the said adult paid full price for because they were not going to ask AGAIN for a discount and just wanted to get the heck out of there to get to lunch.....yes that same adult walking with this reusuable bag into none other than a SUSHI restaurant. *INTERMISSION* So this ridiculous human being makes it home. Both fish are still alive. This is the sad state of affairs these poor little guys were in when I got them home (they are both on their sides in their cups (sorry again for pic distortions this is as good as it got: This was the plan: Get the plants out of the plastic QT and throw them in the 2.5 glass tank (it's smaller than the plastic and looks nicer anyway for something more permanent like an extra plant tank). THEN quickly wipe out the tank, fill it with 1 gallon of reserved water change water, get out the other QT set it next to the other, fill it with 1 gallon of reserved water (these are 3 gallon QT but I figured they're going to be floating at the top anyway and I only had a couple of gallons of pre-made water which by the way has Indian Almond Leaf Tea water mixed in, perfect for all my new Betta friends), grab my 2nd back up air pump of the day and set up air stones, grab my 3rd and 4th handfulls of Guppy Grass from a healthy tank to put in and my 3rd and 4th IA leaf and put those in, 3rd and 4th doses of Aquarium Salt- done. Plop and drop the males into their new spaces and pray to whoever they might have a chance of making it..... This is the white Twintail Halfmoon, he's on his side in both pics, this is just after I placed him: This is the red male Crowntail Betta after I placed him- pretty much in the same position as the Halfmoon: I have 4 QTs now. Two on my desk near my Flex9 and 2 on my kitchen table...until further notice... So here I sit. With 4 more fish that I never intended to have but couldn't help but help because I was in the position to do so. I keep walking around my house calling myself an idiot but at the same time glad I did it. They may not make it, I don't know but at least I'm giving them a chance even though I think I'm a crap Betta keeper- I will try. I've got plans for all 4 if they're lucky enough to live through this disaster. I'm holding off on medicating- though the IAL is anti-bacterial and the salt will help so technically they are "medicated" but not anything too harsh- I want to give them a chance to perk up before I medicate already clearly weakened fish. Maybe my friends @Colu or @Odd Duck could give me their thoughts- but I think for now I'm going in the right direction because.... When I came back from lunch to begin setting up QT for the boys I of course went to check on the girls. The GloBetta still not looking hot- I think maybe her gills are inflamed but hard to tell because of her coloring- however she'd perked up some. And even better...the Dumbo female is doing a WHOLE lot better.... ...so wish this idiot luck fellow NERMS cause here I go....

Hi there Micki, welcome to the forum. As a person who does low tech tanks (no co2, no heaters, no ferts, just lights and fish poop) I can tell you you don't have to get fancy with your tank. You started with some good plants but they are not fast growers (nothing really will be in a low tech tank so it does take some time and patience). I have Bacopa and Super Red like you. My banana plant failed. What I can tell you in a 10 gallon I have an Amazon Compacta (smaller amazon plant- the regular one will take over your tank- I have one in my 20 gallon tall). So you can try that. Also some things that will create height and more interest is gluing rhizone plants to your driftwood- I love Java fern! Narrow leaf and Windelov are both beautiful plants, will produce babies you can remove and reglue wherever you need. When your other plants (ludwigia and bacopa) get bigger, trim and replant the top, trim and replant- and you'll soon have enough of those growing well. Anubias is another rhizone plant- Nana is great for smaller plants in the middle or front of your tank- other species like Barteri are great background plants that add another shape and height. (you can see all of these plants in the pics in my tanks on my profile page- just click "the solid facts" link in my signature below) Would be great to post a pic and tell us what your set up is like and I'm sure you can get even more good advice from our helpful forum members!