xXInkedPhoenixX

@TheSwissAquarist anything that sticks along the side of a tank or can easily hide like Otos or Hillstreams are hard to catch. I do however find it easiest to catch them when they are on the side of the tank with the net up against the glass at an angle, herd them up towards the rim of the tank and anticipate direction (leading from their head with the longest length of the net)- the hope is they will dislike getting herded and come off the glass into the net- if you make it to the rim often they'll just plop right in but you have to go very slow- especially when you catch fry like I am- they are very fragile.

OTOCINCLUS VITTATUS: The Parent Tank I was able to catch baby #2 last night and saw baby #3 on an Anubias leaf- tried to encourage them to attach to the glass elsewhere but they disappeared somewhere into the tank. Hopefully I'll get a chance to catch them today. Once they get past a certain size it's been my experience I may never be able to catch them again. So time is a tickin'!

OTOCINCLUS VITTATUS: The Parent Tank Well I maybe caught the baby that's in the last post but since I caught it I've seen 2 others that elude me now. So I'm waiting patiently until they are close enough to an area I can catch them and add them to a floating breeder. I caught this little one on the 15th. 1 of 3. I put it in the smaller breeder with the 3 smaller babies that are a decent sum older but so far the newbie hasn't been pushed around too much. Hoping this weekend I get my tank divider set up for the 5 in the larger floater to grow out with Koianu the Betta in the 10 gallon grow out/Accidental Oto Tank.

That was probably me @Chick-In-Of-TheSea (the enjoying maintenance thing) but on @AllFishNoBrakes's post about what we love and dislike about the hobby I'm a bit of a freak but I'll let the flag fly!

Looks like it! So neat!

Welcome to the forum @kevincanada! Awesome fish room!!!!!!

@Chris honestly I wouldn't call your last post a derailment at all- this thread was started because I walked into a pet store. This brings to the table many things that have been brought up here (and some yet to be addressed) and I think are valid and very relevant to this forum- rescuing, rehabilitating, judging what you have the capacity to care for, treating illnesses in fish, here specifically Betta which to me are notoriously difficult, pet store protocols, customer service and ethics, even the topic of breeding fish that are succeptible to illness (like super long finned fish) or genetically engineered fish like GloFish. This thread has even made me think a lot about all of those things- and if people are learning anything at all from it- well that was my intention from the start. I didn't have to say anything about my idiotic decision- and if things go horribly wrong with it at some point I will stand bare to some judgement- may even be judged now- but I think despite that it opens up some really good discussions. 🙂

Looks normal to me and may just be definition but hard to say with the angle. He's a beautiful Betta, for your sake and his I hope there's no pineconing.

Theoretically the color should come back @Joey1991 it will take time. I would take a look at him from the top, you can see pineconing better from that view.

Agreed. Out of curiosity what was turnover like in your experience- I realize you were a better selling store so it would be faster than some but I can't imagine selling 100 fish in a weekend? How long did it take you to sell 100 Betta? I suspect this is actually why most of these big box stores are expanding that section- I'm sure they are keeping more in back a lot of the time. Again, I wonder why these corporations don't take this into account. Less, but quality fish, happier employees and more educated employees can ONLY make you more money. Water change day is clearly taking money and time that could better be spent elsewhere. Just see it happening with Aquarium Co-op! ME TOO! Ugh. I always want to intervene or stop the customer later- I've even done it with cat and dog advice. I just wish some employees would say "I'm sorry I don't know" or "we're not supposed to give advice but we have some recommended information sources I can direct you to". Or have a department EXPERT (I was resident knife expert in one of my jobs). Something better than encouraging improper care. I'd also hate to be that employee that gives bad (unintentional) advice and the customer remembers me and comes back and yells. I always had the opposite experience with my high-end retail job, I was able to give the customer the information for THEM to make informed decisions that work for them, their budget and their needs, if they came back to the store they always thanked me and even sought me out for other purchases. Imagine that going on in more places! People would actually like their jobs!! YES! After having had the job I mentioned I understood the value of research and education. Yes sometimes I ask employees and find they are well educated, but I also look things up and educate myself on bigger purchases (sometimes small like a power cord- that sounds like a fantastic cord!- and would totally make sense to spend more on it!!). I believe in trying to buy things only once in my lifetime whenever I can afford to- I don't like being wasteful. So while some see no reason to spend $400 on a pot or pan I'd rather do that, be happy with it and never have to buy another pan ever again! (I realize not everyone can afford to do things like that so I always recommend buy the best you can afford) You should never do anything based on one person's opinion- always check multiple sources and do what makes the most sense for YOU. This is where petstores fail. Animals are not "PENNIES" they are lives that should be treated as priceless. Any pet owner would tell you their pet is priceless. No living thing should be treated that way- and that kind of thing makes me lose respect for companies that may view living "product" as value-less. To use your words: THIS! 🙂

Thanks @Chris 🙂 I'm working on it! YES! They are terrible and I wish more stores would put Betta in better living conditions. I know it's an expensive initial investment but A) it would actually encourage people/customers to keep them the "right" way- which in the end actually makes the store money (bigger tanks, better food, better water etc) and B) the fish would be healthier and live longer therefore keeping and encouranging more to stay in the hobby (again making the store MORE money!). I believe they shouldn't carry as many as they have been too- the big box store that I got these four from just expanded the Betta section and it couldn't be any less than 100+ Betta in cups. That's just too many- and it just brings to light the labor it takes to PROPERLY care for them when the employees are TRYING to make the effort. I don't blame pet store employees- I can't imagine anyone who gets a job in a pet store ISN'T an animal lover- but as potential pet owners going into one WE have to take it upon ourselves to do the research BEFORE getting a pet- sadly most people don't do it this way- and blindly take one person's advice. However, stores can do a MUCH better job educating their staff- which again would make them MORE MONEY! When I worked in high-end retail we used to have Saturday morning meetings- reps from the companies we sold for: Waterford Crystal, Wedgwood china, Wustof knives, All Clad Cookware and hundreds of others, would come to our meetings and educate us on the products- where they were made, how they were made, WHY quality costs more- how to use and care for the products properly. THIS made us excellent sales people who could answer any potential question a customer had with the RIGHT information not guesses or rumors or even personal experience that may not be correct. This store had excellent sales and felt supportive of their staff. Again, a 30 minute meeting 1x or more a week costs the company some money but in investing in educating people you.....MAKE MORE MONEY!! I can't imagine the uphill battle you had with corporate for trying to do your job better- isn't that ironic?? I've had that same issue before in other positions- trying to do things the right way or changing "policy" no matter how illogical, cumbersome, unbeneficial or even financially burdensome (I mean c'mon they're losing money). I did it anyway, glad to see there are more rebels like me. I hope they continued the process after you left and even got better. Kudos to you.

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea aww, sweet little snail, glad they got to go home with you.

Yeah unless you have the ability to keep water at 80-82 degrees all the time they do seem to do a lot better with a heater. I say this because my Flex9 is often 80 in the summer with no help but not so much in the winter. So it is possible without a heater if you live in a tropical area and keep the area they're in warm. Otherwise I'd recommend heaters for them- which might have played a part in me not having much luck with them in the past- I did not know (this was some years ago). They breathe air so humidity is a must- the warmer water helps this. Now, right at this moment they don't have heaters unfortunately. I'm keeping the room at 75 degrees (and during the afternoon it gets warmer). My tanks generally run 75-79 degrees on their own. My resident Betta, Koianu has a small flat heater it keeps his tank at 80. Aww poor guppies, that's very sad. I hope you have luck with them and they grow their tails back. Having worked in rescue before there are many people who choose pets by their looks without knowing their behavior, needs and potential issues- people often don't educate themselves and then blame the animal for whatever disaster happens later. I'm constantly surprised that stores don't try to educate their employees more- I know good help is hard to find but when I tried to get a job in a pet store many years ago the owner passed on me because I failed some care questions they asked (it was turtle care in this case) and someone else knew all the right answers. I commend them for that though at the time I was bummed about it. On that note- congrats on the new job!! Rescue is not for everyone but those of us who can do it should do it. Really my hope here is that others benefit from my experience- in your case it inspired you to save some guppies AND get a new job- that's fantastic! At the very least I hope it helps a Betta owner that is looking for a treatment plan or basic care ideas.

and @TheSwissAquarist... She's totally easy to fall for she's adorable and not a whole lot bigger than an an inch and a half- she's tiny which just makes her cuter- she's got a great personality too- she acts just like a little dog does- "I'm a big dog! I'm a big dog!". Yes I'm glad Crowntail eats- as long as he's doiing that I know he's still with me. It's important for me to do frequent water changes in my QT tanks as they're not really big so water quality can take a dump quickly if I'm not careful. There wasn't one- when a fish is in crappy water and already distressed this is when I use plop and drop. So they came out of their nasty cups with a net and straight into my water. This is one of those times you don't want to mess around- kind of like when you get a shipment of live fish and they struggle with the ammonia immediately rising as soon as the air hits the water. I've never had an issue with this. Now when I bring home fish from LFS or when I got Punk from another fish keeper, I actually ask the LFS for more of their water than what you get in the bag (Punk's owner gave me plenty) and over the course of a couple of hours I just add a cup or so to the container they are in until there's enough water for a QT. Then clearly over the QT time with water changes they are used to my water. Again never had an issue- never have done drip acclimation to this point in my hobby experience.

Yes, which is why I'm happy Crowntail is eating the medicated food I fully expected him to reject it because of my experience with picky Betta. All 4 of the patients eat the food I give them easily so I guess I've got a good food rotation going or they are just not picky eaters which IME is unusual so I'm going to put it down to I have good food. This is exactly why I quit them the first time- mine never really got "old" either- they just got sick and died despite my best efforts. I've never had one with me for more than a couple of years- usually less. This is why I call myself a crap Betta keeper- while I'm tempted to keep some of the patients- they might be better off elsewhere when this is over! 🙂 So since they were already sick I figured I couldn't hurt them more than they were already and if they made it great! I do the same thing with plants at the nursery- I'll buy the dying ones and try and bring them back because I feel bad for them- but chalk it up to they were dying anyway if they don't make it- or happy when they do!

This is always a good topic to discuss. I'll start with the negative- this will always be the early deaths. When your fish get sick, injured or your fry don't make it- this is always a bummer. Seeing suffering and sometimes feeling like you are the one that caused it- well that's the worst. The best part- well not just maintaining healthy tanks- which I'm a freak and happen to LOVE maintenance- I imagine it's sort of like teaching a kid how to ride a bike as a parent and letting go and they're doing it on their own- that's how I feel about my tanks once they are pretty much maintenance free (and I'm only doing it because I feel like it) and sick fish or deaths don't come up often or at all unless it's natural lifespan. That feeling of success that you did it right and seeing the happy inhabitants every day and appreciating them. It's hard not to be at least a little proud of that.

Ok update time! We'll start with our sad case first, Mr. Red Crowntail- he's eating Metroplex medicated bloodworms in the morning- and had a few Ocean Nutrition Betta Pellets for dinner. He got a small water change today (25% water change yesterday after the 1st Expel P dose @Odd Duck recommended). I'm changing water every other day in all the patient's tank but the 25% change happened to come on the "no water change day". Anyhow, he still eats fine and wants so badly to swim but after some effort swimming straight he goes back sideways. The meds don't seem to effect him negatively and so far after 3 days of feeding medicated food he's not wanted to reject it so I think we're good there. I just cut a small piece off the frozen block I made mixing just barely thawed with Focus and Metro and put back in a mold to refreeze- let the small piece thaw and feed him the bigger chunks. Here is the little guy today- you can see he still uses the sides and corners of the tank to stay up (mostly the corners): Purple Dumbo girl- still doing good! She got her bloodworms this morning, betta pellets this evening with a water change and is ALWAYS, ALWAYS at the front of the tank for attention- she's a very sweet little fish: Miss GloBetta is improving daily. She's much more casual about her movements compared to her Purple neighbor. She's very graceful for such a loooonnnng fish. Her tail is getting more red on it as the days go by. She likes to hang out near the floaters I put in her tank. Even as slow as she moves she's just as hard to get a pic of as Purple: Then we have White Twintail Halfmoon- he just keeps getting prettier and better at getting around his tank- when he used to do what his neighbor Crowntail does- he's now all over his tank near constantly. He eats really well, got his water change and swims a lot better with the heavy water change current (though it's still probably hard with those long fins). Ignore the black stripe across his body in the bottom right pic- that's just a mark on the outside of the tank. I'm still wondering what his final coloring is!

What a great post @tolstoy21! Thanks for such interesting information on a very cool fish!

@Chick-In-Of-TheSea, I've treated columnaris before- this isn't it. He's just losing coloring and I presumed it's from being sick/stress and just putting out feelers. @Odd Duckyeah wasn't thinking it was "another" disease but didn't want to assume and didn't just want to say "I think it's stress or natural color issue due to being sick" just wanted to see what your reaction was- so I appreciate that. I wasn't too worried. @Torrey haven't seen you around for a minute- it's good to see your post. I am sorry to fail you- I have no microscope!

Ok fishy friends welcome to my continued insanity. This morning everyone got 50% water changes- the 2 girls and 1 boy are no longer being medicated other than the IAL tea and salt. Here are the updates: As usual purple Dumbo girl is fine- she's a little pig for being the tiniest of the four- I'm wondering if she's going to stay small because I'm half tempted to plop her in with my CPDs. It's been a thought for the last day or so. I think she'd not only look fantastic in there but she might have fun with the other small fish. I'll have to contemplate that one. Then we have GloBetta girl- she's still doing great. I think she's the one that's going to stay with me in my Flex9- I don't believe my Mum would be into her and I think she'd stand out nicely in this pretty dark tank- she'd just have to get along with the Guppies and Endlers. In a couple more weeks as long as things go smoothly I'll try it out. White Twintail Halfmoon still very much improving- his beautiful markings are starting to show better. He eats well and moves fine. I'm thinking my Mum might like him best but I'm not sure yet. He still has some time left with me before a decision is made. He looks like beautiful watercolor brush strokes to me. Mr Crowntail he's still doing his best. I'll need you to take a look at his pics @Odd Duck- he's getting the medicated food for the last two days and I put in the first dose of Expel P this morning- it will be a bit over 24 hours before I can change his water as directed but that should be ok. My concern is with his pictures today- still has that white discoloration in the same spot but now he's got spots- which aren't ich or epistylus but white discoloring on random scales that I hadn't noticed before (middle pic and top left). Wondering what to do about that. I didn't dose his tank with salt after the 50% water change- figured the medicated food and Expel P was enough for now. He seems tough- this poor little guy.

OTOCINCLUS VITTATUS: The Parent Tank Been a bit since I've updated- but there hasn't been a whole lot to report. I have 8 baby Otos still in floating breeder boxes- 5 larger in one and 3 smaller in another. TODAY, did a morning inspection and caught a small baby- semi-translucent so probably 5 days or under old it was trailing a poop 4 times its size! I'm going to let it stay in the main tank for another day or so and see if anyone else pops up. It's time for me to set up a divider in the Accidental Oto tank where my koi Betta Koianu is so that I can set the larger babies free there to grow up. This should happen in the next few days I hope!

Me too friend, me too. Now I have 5. Oi.

Nah- totally easy to get different information- about this hobby especially- so no worries there. This is why forums like this are nice, no judgement and lots of knowledge base! It's hard to even think a lot of these fish even come from somewhere else on the planet anyway- as most everything we get has been raised in a tank- so how far removed are they from the original species?! It's like Betta fish- the ones we keep are nothing like the wild ones (unless we're keeping a wild species of course). Me too friend, they also look a bit trickier when it comes to water chemistry! Sometimes we don't plan things and then we end up with fish we didn't expect to have- but funnily enough they are always one of our biggest fish keeping joys!

I hope for you at least you didn't bring a sick one home and it was just one of those things you didn't expect to bring home with you that brings you joy.

Really looks wonderful!!