Snail Tank -- What am I Doing Wrong?

[Jennifer V]

Hi Everyone! 

I'm attempting to create a 5g snail tank to feed my puffers. It's been set up since March and has bladder and ramshorn snails in it. They cleaned the tank pretty quickly and I started to see die off awhile ago so I started feeding them algae wafers to try to get the population to increase again. I'm battling ammonia now even though the remaining snails make quick work of the wafers. I'm still seeing die off for some reason. I just can't get the population up! I feel silly because I thought this would be a breeze. What am I doing wrong? How do you successfully raise a large supply of snails? What's causing the Ammonia? The algae wafers? 

Tank parameters:

Ph: 7.2

Temp: 78 

Ammonia: .25 consistently even with water changes

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 10

Ammonia from the tap: .5 

[Griznatch]

Do you have plants and a sponge filter in there? Do you treat the tap water?

[eatyourpeas]

Is the tank heavily planted?

[Jennifer V]

On 7/10/2021 at 8:18 AM, Griznatch said:

Do you have plants and a sponge filter in there? Do you treat the tap water?

I do! It's a heavily planted tank and it has a sponge filter purchased from Aquarium Co-Op. 

[Jennifer V]

On 7/10/2021 at 8:18 AM, eatyourpeas said:

Is the tank heavily planted?

Yes! The plants are all doing really well and have at least doubled in size -- even the Buce I have has sprouted new leaves. 

[Jennifer V]

On 7/10/2021 at 8:21 AM, Jennifer V said:

I do! It's a heavily planted tank and it has a sponge filter purchased from Aquarium Co-Op. 

Oh! Yes I treat the trap water with Fritz Complete @Griznatch

Edited July 10, 2021 by Jennifer V

[eatyourpeas]

How often do you do water changes and how much water do you replace?

[eatyourpeas]

I think your tap water may be the culprit. 0.5 ammonia is pretty high, and the buces are epiphytes which means all that ammonia is making them happy.

I would suggest doing a water change ensuring the ammonia is 0 and then not do water changes for a while, letting the plants do the work.

[Jennifer V]

On 7/10/2021 at 8:25 AM, eatyourpeas said:

How often do you do water changes and how much water do you replace?

I was doing a ~30 percent water change every week to 10 days but now that I have the Ammonia issue, I test once a week. I usually need to do a ~50 percent water change one day and ~30 percent the next to get the Ammonia down. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

What’s your TDS, kh, and gh? Do you have a calcium source in there? Substrate should be aragonite, crushed coral, or you can just put a bag in the tank this is not an overnight fix takes weeks or you’ll need to add wondershell which is a quick fix with cuttlebone a Slower releaser to help with shell development and reproductive health. 

[Jennifer V]

On 7/10/2021 at 8:32 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

What’s your TDS, kh, and gh? Do you have a calcium source in there? Substrate should be aragonite, crushed coral, or you can just put a bag in the tank this is not an overnight fix takes weeks or you’ll need to add wondershell which is a quick fix with cuttlebone a Slower releaser to help with shell development and reproductive health. 

I didn't even think to run those tests. Ha! I'll test today and try adding wondershell. Thank you! 

[Jennifer V]

On 7/10/2021 at 8:29 AM, eatyourpeas said:

I think your tap water may be the culprit. 0.5 ammonia is pretty high, and the buces are epiphytes which means all that ammonia is making them happy.

I would suggest doing a water change ensuring the ammonia is 0 and then not do water changes for a while, letting the plants do the work.

Ok! I'll try that and report back if the Ammonia spikes again. 

[Guppysnail]

I raise bladders.  If your water has too much ammonia or nitrite they will not reproduce. Give them full fish food as protein signals them to reproduce like mad … just my observation.  If your snails are the only thing in the tank water change your water to quality. 20-40 nitrate is where I keep mine. Check your tank for copper

i give mine fresh blanched veggies green beans are vitamin rich

when hatched they immediately need a calcium source or the shell won’t harden and they die. I use windershells

Edited July 10, 2021 by Guppysnail

[GameCzar]

You can always try using distilled water for your 5g if your tap ammonia is too high.   Obviously if the tank was bigger, that would be prohibitively expensive, but not too bad with a 5g. 

[Colu]

You could try feeding them hikari crab cusine or shrimp.king snail stixx  both  have add calcium 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Colu

[Guppysnail]

On 7/10/2021 at 11:01 AM, GameCzar said:

You can always try using distilled water for your 5g if your tap ammonia is too high.   Obviously if the tank was bigger, that would be prohibitively expensive, but not too bad with a 5g. 

Funny you say that. I just this morning finished my jug water quest. API kit in hand I checked 4 stores for distilled natural spring and spring water. Distilled was neutral no kh gh. Natural spring ranged from 6.2-6.8 extremely low kh/gh except one was 7.6 great kh/gh… so yes jug water is great awesome suggestion but check your Params on each!  My tap starts at 20 nitrate so I dilute it. 😁

[Littlefish]

In the saltwater world api is well known to half the time give a false reading of .25 ammonia.  There are long forum threads about it  The lack of Nitrites could be a sign it is a false +, but then there is still the snail die-off...

[Littlefish]

And if you have access to natural salt water, or your lfs has some artificial sw, a cup of that is great for livebearer and snail tanks.  Not too much or the plants won't like it.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Littlefish
Clarification

[GameCzar]

On 7/10/2021 at 10:07 AM, Guppysnail said:

Funny you say that. I just this morning finished my jug water quest. API kit in hand I checked 4 stores for distilled natural spring and spring water. Distilled was neutral no kh gh. Natural spring ranged from 6.2-6.8 extremely low kh/gh except one was 7.6 great kh/gh… so yes jug water is great awesome suggestion but check your Params on each!  My tap starts at 20 nitrate so I dilute it. 😁

Which brand had the 7.6 if I may ask!?  I knew we had tested some spring water and it was higher than the distilled. 

[CalmedByFish]

The algae wafers might have ingredients that don't benefit the snails, since they tend to be made for fish. If so, the snails wouldn't be getting as much good as they could be out of their time and energy spent eating, and the unused ingredient(s) would add ammonia to the water too.

It might be better to use a food intended for snails or other animals with shells. 

I also second the idea of putting a piece of cuttlebone (or wonder shell?) on the bottom of the tank. I do that, and notice a young bladder snail sitting on it about every day.

The time it takes for the eggs to hatch (and snails to mature) can probably be sped up using their ideal breeding temp range - though I don't know what that is. Might be worth researching.

The only other thing I haven't seen here is the mention that they do need to breathe air, so make sure they have about an inch of glass above the water line to go hang out. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by CalmedByFish

[Guppysnail]

On 7/10/2021 at 11:22 AM, GameCzar said:

Which brand had the 7.6 if I may ask!?  I knew we had tested some spring water and it was higher than the distilled. 

Walmart natural spring green cap. The purified spring was terrible 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Guppysnail

[GameCzar]

On 7/10/2021 at 10:42 AM, Guppysnail said:

Walmart natural spring green cap. The purified spring was terrible 

This is good work!  Nice find on your jug quest. 

[Phantom240]

Recipe for snails:

- 0ppm Nitrite and Ammonia
- Plenty of GH and KH, maybe even crushed coral substrate
- Protein rich and calcium rich food

Mix well until snail population explodes

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

On 7/10/2021 at 8:14 AM, Jennifer V said:

Hi Everyone! 

I'm attempting to create a 5g snail tank to feed my puffers. It's been set up since March and has bladder and ramshorn snails in it. They cleaned the tank pretty quickly and I started to see die off awhile ago so I started feeding them algae wafers to try to get the population to increase again. I'm battling ammonia now even though the remaining snails make quick work of the wafers. I'm still seeing die off for some reason. I just can't get the population up! I feel silly because I thought this would be a breeze. What am I doing wrong? How do you successfully raise a large supply of snails? What's causing the Ammonia? The algae wafers? 

Tank parameters:

Ph: 7.2

Temp: 78 

Ammonia: .25 consistently even with water changes

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 10

Ammonia from the tap: .5 

78 is toasty have you run them at 70-74?

Id try the wondershell, crushed coral etc I have trouble with snail shells melting due to low calcium in the planted tanks unless I add a crushed coral or another buffer. I've also used those nano banquet blocks for shell strength. Shrimp and snails will directly eat that. The plants uptake the minerals and limit what is in the water for the snails for my system.

Algae wafers normally have a ton of ingredients so it could be those. I would feed whatever I had around to snails and uaually use the extreme spirulina flake. I try canned or fresh vegetables as foods too: salt free canned green beans or the organic zucchini washed thoroughly cut and frozen to allow for sinking when I feed them.

I drop a disk of frozen zucchini semi regularly and it sinks to the bottom fast once frozen and allowed to thaw in the tank. Everything eats it including snails, all sizes and types of fish, cherry shrimp, etc eat it. I net it out when there is a rare remnant and it floats up to the surface.

[ARMYVET]

Feed your snails fresh boiled collard greens....they are loaded with calcium and are a low-oxalate natural non-processed food source. 

Oxalate binds to calcium and does not allow the body to absorb the calcium as easily.