Apistogrammas + ?? in a 30g

[Kirsten]

So, now that I've got a rough sketch of what I want to do with my windfall 30 tanks, time to narrow it down a little. I think I want to try apistos, though I can't decide yet between cacatuoides (top) and borelli (second picture). I like a lot of finnage and a lot of contrast, especially with purples:

I'd love to make a good South American biotope, even if I can't manage a true place-specific biotope for these colorful lil fish in a 30g tank.

I know Cory recommends a classic 3-layer approach with apistos, neon or cardinal tetras, and hatchetfish, but I'm not fully sold on it. First, I've just never really liked straight neons. They're so ubiquitous and can have poor health and the red and blue is cool, but I'm not sure it's the right contrast for either of these. Cardinals seem a little better, bigger, more thorough coloration, but it seems like they're often wild-caught and I'd prefer tank-bred if possible.

However, I do like ember tetras. I like their energy and tiny size and color, of course. But again, not sure it pops well with either of these.

What I really, really love are those sparkly diamond tetras.

 

Any lore out there saying I can't keep apistos and diamond tetras together? Diamonds don't seem like fin nippers, and they've certainly got some long fins themselves.

Since this is only a 30g and I want to leave room for the apistos to maybe have babies, I probably won't have much space left for a top dweller like a hatchetfish or pencilfish. Is that okay? Both hatchets and pencils seem interesting enough, but not showstoppers. Are there any other South American mid-top dwellers I should consider?

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Kirsten

[CorydorasEthan]

6 minutes ago, Kirsten said:

So, now that I've got a rough sketch of what I want to do with my windfall 30 tanks, time to narrow it down a little. I think I want to try apistos, though I can't decide yet between cacatuoides (top) and borelli (second picture). I like a lot of finnage and a lot of contrast, especially with purples:

I'd love to make a good South American biotope, even if I can't manage a true place-specific biotope for these colorful lil fish in a 30g tank.

I know Cory recommends a classic 3-layer approach with apistos, neon or cardinal tetras, and hatchetfish, but I'm not fully sold on it. First, I've just never really liked straight neons. They're so ubiquitous and can have poor health and the red and blue is cool, but I'm not sure it's the right contrast for either of these. Cardinals seem a little better, bigger, more thorough coloration, but it seems like they're often wild-caught and I'd prefer tank-bred if possible.

However, I do like ember tetras. I like their energy and tiny size and color, of course. But again, not sure it pops well with either of these.

What I really, really love are those sparkly diamond tetras.

 

Any lore out there saying I can't keep apistos and diamond tetras together? Diamonds don't seem like fin nippers, and they've certainly got some long fins themselves.

Since this is only a 30g and I want to leave room for the apistos to maybe have babies, I probably won't have much space left for a top dweller like a hatchetfish or pencilfish. Is that okay? They both seem interesting enough, but not showstoppers. Are there any other South American mid-top dwellers I should consider?

 

Great idea! You could do smaller species of pencilfish like ones from the genus Nannostomus, as they would not take up too much room. Other fish that dwell higher up in the water column (not quite the surface) include lampeye tetras, black neon tetras, and flame tetras. Though I would be careful with these as they could potentially eat baby cichlids.

But I musk ask, where are the Corydoras in your stocking plan? I think pygmy cories or other smaller species that would fit in the 30 gallon would work great!

Edited April 21, 2021 by CorydorasEthan

[Kirsten]

1 minute ago, CorydorasEthan said:

But I musk ask, where are the Corydoras in your stocking plan? I think pygmy cories or other smaller species that would fit in the 30 gallon would work great!

LOL I love your consistency!

I dunno, I keep trying 6-10 pygmy cories, which are so so cute, in all my soft water setups and then never see them again. Should I try a larger cory like Corydoras paleatus for this tank? I gotta say, I like their style. Will they get into trouble with the apistos?

I have so many livebearers that I'm practically a bad fishkeeper at this point, so I'd rather have 1 or 2 fry make it through the gauntlet than try to breed for profit. But I would like 1 or 2 to survive to carry on the linneage should I screw up!

[Patrick_G]

I just got home from the LFS. They had some full grown Diamond Tetras. They’re beautiful but I was surprised how big they are. A school in a 30g would be a showstopper. 

[Kirsten]

2 minutes ago, Patrick_G said:

I just got home from the LFS. They had some full grown Diamond Tetras. They’re beautiful but I was surprised how big they are. A school in a 30g would be a showstopper. 

I know right? Ahhh!

[CorydorasEthan]

4 minutes ago, Kirsten said:

LOL I love your consistency!

I dunno, I keep trying 6-10 pygmy cories, which are so so cute, in all my soft water setups and then never see them again. Should I try a larger cory like Corydoras paleatus for this tank? I gotta say, I like their style. Will they get into trouble with the apistos?

I have so many livebearers that I'm practically a bad fishkeeper at this point, so I'd rather have 1 or 2 fry make it through the gauntlet than try to breed for profit. But I would like 1 or 2 to survive to carry on the linneage should I screw up!

Yes the pygmies I have noticed will be active up until they find their favorite spot and then they just sit there all day! Corydoras paleatus are a great choice! The female I have has a blue sheen, which is very attractive. The females also grow very large, which is also makes them quite enjoyable:

Cories never fight back against those who pick on them, so you might have a problem if the apistos get territorial. But they will work great otherwise!

[Kirsten]

Just now, CorydorasEthan said:

Yes the pygmies I have noticed will be active up until they find their favorite spot and then they just sit there all day! Corydoras paleatus are a great choice! The female I have has a blue sheen, which is very attractive. The females also grow very large, which is also makes them quite enjoyable:

Cories never fight back against those who pick on them, so you might have a problem if the apistos get territorial. But they will work great otherwise!

hahah, wow, lookit that big mama! I even had one or two old matriarchs like that among my pygmies. Alright, you may have sold me 🙂 Think they'll like a Black Diamond substrate?

[CorydorasEthan]

Just now, Kirsten said:

hahah, wow, lookit that big mama! I even had one or two old matriarchs like that among my pygmies. Alright, you may have sold me 🙂 Think they'll like a Black Diamond substrate?

Haha "big mama" is one of her nicknames, as she has mothered all the baby cories in the tank!

Just a side note, but I would recommend combining all of the pygmy cories you have into one tank and see how they act! I have yet to buy more, but I plan on having a 20 long dedicated to like 30+ pygmy cories to see how they school together!

Anyways, yeah the cories would love black diamond substrate.

[Calvin]

 I recently added a pair of Borelli Opals. Lovely little fish with a bit of personality. This is the only half decent picture I've caught of him so far, he's still quite camera shy! 🙈

[tolstoy21]

4 hours ago, Kirsten said:

hahah, wow, lookit that big mama! I even had one or two old matriarchs like that among my pygmies. Alright, you may have sold me 🙂 Think they'll like a Black Diamond substrate?

I find that my apisto cacs show much better color against black substrate vs natural-colored pebble substrate. When I move them from a tank with caribsea pebbles to a tank with black fluorite sand, their dark barring becomes much more pronounced. So if you go with cacs, def do the black sand. 

[laritheloud]

6 hours ago, Kirsten said:

So, now that I've got a rough sketch of what I want to do with my windfall 30 tanks, time to narrow it down a little. I think I want to try apistos, though I can't decide yet between cacatuoides (top) and borelli (second picture). I like a lot of finnage and a lot of contrast, especially with purples:

I'd love to make a good South American biotope, even if I can't manage a true place-specific biotope for these colorful lil fish in a 30g tank.

I know Cory recommends a classic 3-layer approach with apistos, neon or cardinal tetras, and hatchetfish, but I'm not fully sold on it. First, I've just never really liked straight neons. They're so ubiquitous and can have poor health and the red and blue is cool, but I'm not sure it's the right contrast for either of these. Cardinals seem a little better, bigger, more thorough coloration, but it seems like they're often wild-caught and I'd prefer tank-bred if possible.

However, I do like ember tetras. I like their energy and tiny size and color, of course. But again, not sure it pops well with either of these.

What I really, really love are those sparkly diamond tetras.

 

Any lore out there saying I can't keep apistos and diamond tetras together? Diamonds don't seem like fin nippers, and they've certainly got some long fins themselves.

Since this is only a 30g and I want to leave room for the apistos to maybe have babies, I probably won't have much space left for a top dweller like a hatchetfish or pencilfish. Is that okay? Both hatchets and pencils seem interesting enough, but not showstoppers. Are there any other South American mid-top dwellers I should consider?

 

Diamond Tetras aren't really fin nippers in my experience, but the key is to keep a large enough group of them. I have 6, but 8 would probably be even better. They have the normal tetra light chasing of one another but there hasn't been any concerning aggression. We definitely have an alpha male that sometimes goes around chasing the other tetras (mostly the females and not the other males), but he doesn't keep them from swimming in his space, and there have been zero problems with feeding.

They are totally voracious eaters, though, like all tetras, so they may try to sneak food away from other fish!

Aside from that, they leave my corydoras completely alone. Any squabbles are confined within the group/competition and fin displays between the males. 🙂 

Edited April 22, 2021 by laritheloud

[Paul]

I keep both A. Nijsseni & A. Hongsloi. Panda and False Bandit Corys will both work in a Apisto tank really well. The 30 gallon has plenty of height for Tetras, Pencilfish or Rasboras. Having other fish swimming in the upper parts of the tank gives the Apistos the courage to come out of hiding. 

[Stealth Aquatics]

6 hours ago, Kirsten said:

So, now that I've got a rough sketch of what I want to do with my windfall 30 tanks, time to narrow it down a little. I think I want to try apistos, though I can't decide yet between cacatuoides (top) and borelli (second picture). I like a lot of finnage and a lot of contrast, especially with purples:

I'd love to make a good South American biotope, even if I can't manage a true place-specific biotope for these colorful lil fish in a 30g tank.

I know Cory recommends a classic 3-layer approach with apistos, neon or cardinal tetras, and hatchetfish, but I'm not fully sold on it. First, I've just never really liked straight neons. They're so ubiquitous and can have poor health and the red and blue is cool, but I'm not sure it's the right contrast for either of these. Cardinals seem a little better, bigger, more thorough coloration, but it seems like they're often wild-caught and I'd prefer tank-bred if possible.

However, I do like ember tetras. I like their energy and tiny size and color, of course. But again, not sure it pops well with either of these.

What I really, really love are those sparkly diamond tetras.

 

Any lore out there saying I can't keep apistos and diamond tetras together? Diamonds don't seem like fin nippers, and they've certainly got some long fins themselves.

Since this is only a 30g and I want to leave room for the apistos to maybe have babies, I probably won't have much space left for a top dweller like a hatchetfish or pencilfish. Is that okay? Both hatchets and pencils seem interesting enough, but not showstoppers. Are there any other South American mid-top dwellers I should consider?

 

I have a pair of apisto macmasteri in my 56 gallon (40 breeder but taller). I have cardinal tetras and rummy nose above them. I have 3 sterbai corys, and wanted to expand their numbers but decided not to since I have the apistos. I’m just now getting breeding action from my apistos and everything seems to be working okay. It’s my first time keeping apistos as well. I always wanted to keep them but as a newer aquarist I was nervous. 

[anewbie]

I would recommend borelli over cockatoo. If you keep pandura or hongsoli (I've kept hongsoli and nijjensi) you will need fairly low tds and moderately low ph if you wish to breed them. The nijjensi borderline on a blackwater requirement (at least for breeding). 

-

For tetra if you go with cardinal i would recommend wild over tank bred - neon are hit and miss but once they get settled in they are quite hardy (I purchased 8 at petco - two doa (one on the way home) but the other 6 have been fine the past 4 months. 

-

Other small tetra not mentioned that work fine are ruby tetra and ember tetra and a bit larger lemon and black neon. Btw i keep sterbai with my hongsloi - the sterbai are quite large and a tank compare to the apisto - yes the aspito chase them out of specific areas but there is no much violence - just a threat and the cory quietly leaves. Of course a lot will depend on your landscape. 

-

Pygmy are great and a smaller cory that actually spend a lot of time swimming as a school. Best to get a lot of them - 10 - 15 - 20 the more the merrier. As someone else mentioned pencil fishes is another family of fishes that are often found with apisto. Breeders prefer pencil fishes over tetra since most of the species will not harm frys (there is one exception that i cannot recall which one it is).

-

Another family of fishes that go well with aspito are rasbora (kubotai, galaxy, ...). The purist of course would reject those since they are from asia but otherwise they make great tankmates.

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by anewbie

[Kirsten]

So I guess my question is: would larger tetras like Diamonds still work as dither fish, or would the apistos prefer to see smaller tetras like embers?

Another option I just remembered is 10 or 20 Silvertip tetras instead. They would probably look good with the Borellii, but it might be a lot of yellow...

[Eric R]

I have A. hongsloi with corys (trilineatus, paleatus, and sterbai) and the apistos and corys never seem to bother each other, even while my male apistos are actively chasing each other out of their territories. The paleatus and trilineatus don't hide as much as the sterbai, which I don't see much except during feeding time, though they all have similar numbers. If you want to breed the apistos, keep an eye on what their tankmates are as they could be prone to eat some eggs. I'm going to transfer my pair of apistos to a 10g and try a dedicated blackwater setup to try to get them to spawn, which they haven't in the community tank yet, though I have been softening the water with RODI and adding botanicals to try to lower ph.

Edited April 22, 2021 by ererer

[tolstoy21]

2 hours ago, Kirsten said:

So I guess my question is: would larger tetras like Diamonds still work as dither fish, or would the apistos prefer to see smaller tetras like embers?

Another option I just remembered is 10 or 20 Silvertip tetras instead. They would probably look good with the Borellii, but it might be a lot of yellow...

I would imagine anything would work that doesn't also bug it.

I find that the sole apisto in my community tank is fine with just about all my fish (corys, cherry barbs, danios) except my Odessa barbs which are hell bent on swimming around it in circles to force it to 'play'. The Odessas also like to steal whatever he is about to eat the moment he tries to eat it. And this make him extra cranky.

Edited April 22, 2021 by tolstoy21

[Fish Folk]

We really miss our Cacatuoides... died from parasites before we knew how to treat for that.

[CalmedByFish]

No info to share. Just wanted to say the borelli and diamonds are both absolutely gorgeous! 

[Nate s]

I think any type of tetra could potentially be fry stealers unless heavily planted if you’re really trying to breed. I did an apisto pair with some guppies in a lightly planted 29 and it worked out pretty good. Got a spawn, pulled the fry after 3 weeks and a week later had another batch. Didn’t save that batch bc I already had the previous batch along with a batch form another pair with only 1 10g available for grow out. Lol. Need. More. Tanks! 

[Kirsten]

15 minutes ago, Nate s said:

I think any type of tetra could potentially be fry stealers unless heavily planted if you’re really trying to breed.

Nah, not seriously trying to breed. If one or two make it, awesome! But I have enough livebearers making babies everywhere, don't need a ton more. That said, man, borellii are hard to find and expensive! So I'd like to at least have some replacement spawns make it through.

While I have plenty of south american livebearers, I'm worried that none will thrive in the soft, acidic environment the apistos need. So some endlers might do in a pinch, but I think I want other soft water fish for this tank.

[DShelton]

I have a similar footprint tank 36" only the 38 gallon (assuming yours is a 30 gallon long) variety that is currently being setup. I have thought long and hard about stocking options for South American fishes and plants. I have been considering several of the Apistogramma species, and I have settled on Lemon tetras and C. sterbai to go with them.

I think that lemon tetra will look gorgeous with A. borelli.

[Nate s]

14 hours ago, Kirsten said:

Nah, not seriously trying to breed. If one or two make it, awesome! But I have enough livebearers making babies everywhere, don't need a ton more. That said, man, borellii are hard to find and expensive! So I'd like to at least have some replacement spawns make it through.

While I have plenty of south american livebearers, I'm worried that none will thrive in the soft, acidic environment the apistos need. So some endlers might do in a pinch, but I think I want other soft water fish for this tank.

That was my thought. I bought 2 pair of cacatuoides and put them in separate tanks ($45 each pair plus $27 shipping) to try and get a few spawns from each to distribute around and keep from having to buy more. Have some fry scattered in a few of my other community tanks now and happy I shouldn’t have to buy anymore for a while!!