Water Changes - Adding in water

[SunniSki]

I have been watching a few youtube videos on various aquarium/fish topics...one thing that stood out to me is some people after gravel vacc'ing, they throw declorinator (Prime or whatever they prefer) in their tank and then just fill the tank straight from the tap.  I have always thought you need to decloronate the water first...then fill the tank with that water that you treated.  Am I doing it the old school way?  Maybe I have been doing it wrong all these years?? I am always hauling buckets back and forth with water changes.  I just feel like the water that is coming straight from the tap would hurt my fish. 

[lefty o]

ive been adding water treatment, and the water to the tank for decades. in an ideal perfect world, yeah you should probably dechlorinate prior to adding to the tank. once you get past the world of 20gal aquariums, that becomes a challenge.

[SunniSki]

I have a 75 gallon and the carrying buckets is killing me.  I just really was under the assumption…. My fish will be affected by the water if it’s not treated before adding it in the tank.  

[HH Morant]

I use this transfer pump to remove and to replace water in my two 100-plus gallon tanks. I add de-chlorinator to the replacement water in a plastic container and then pump the water from the container into the tank. I use a storage container, but any plastic container - like a garbage can - would do. I think de-chlorinators are great and they work very fast, but I don't believe they work instantly.  I would guess that repeated exposure to chlorine even for a few seconds at a time would damage the gills of fish. Chlorine is more toxic to fish than ammonia or nitrite.

I have seen pet shops put the de-chlorinator in the aquarium and then run tap water into the aquarium. It doesn't kill the fish right away, but I don't think it is a good practice.

 

[Patrick_G]

On 3/2/2022 at 1:33 PM, lefty o said:

ive been adding water treatment, and the water to the tank for decades. in an ideal perfect world, yeah you should probably dechlorinate prior to adding to the tank. once you get past the world of 20gal aquariums, that becomes a challenge.

I do the same although the amount of chlorine in my water is undetectable with my test strips. 

[SunniSki]

That is my thought as well but I have seen several people do it this way…. It just makes me wonder if I’m doing it the hard way.  I usually am working with 5-6 lowes buckets of clean water and then 5-6 of dirty.  I clean my tank weekly and it takes a chuck of time every single Sunday I do this.  

[quikv6]

I think you are definitely doing it the hard way. I have a 75, and run right from the sink to the tank with a Python. As for dechlorinator.....I dose 1 dose immediately before filling, and 1 dose immediately after it's filled. I use Prime. Being you can safely dose up to 5 times the single dose....2 times is small potatoes for peace of mind.

[Katherine]

I've run into some issues doing it that way with very young fish that want to play in the flow My tank normally doesn't have much flow, so when I did this with small danios I lost a few. I can't say for sure that that's why, but I'm being more careful with water changes and young fish in the future.

[Flumpweesel]

I throw a tank size dose of prime into the tank then run the hose from the tap. Never had any negative effects. 

[Edsland]

I add declorinater then refill with python, then when I’m done I’ll add a little more declorinater. Never had a problem in 40 plus years. 

[SunniSki]

On 3/2/2022 at 5:51 PM, quikv6 said:

I think you are definitely doing it the hard way. I have a 75, and run right from the sink to the tank with a Python. As for dechlorinator.....I dose 1 dose immediately before filling, and 1 dose immediately after it's filled. I use Prime. Being you can safely dose up to 5 times the single dose....2 times is small potatoes for peace of mind.

I’m so surprised that it’s more common than I thought.  The whole concept is odd to me since I have had fish for over 25 years and always worked with 5 gallon buckets.  Problem is I’m getting older and I swear the buckets get heavier every year 🤦🏼‍♀️

[darkG]

I do buckets, though not weekly. While I don't have chlorine, I'd rather not use tap warm-water. (I don't trust plants to prevent copper build-up, in particular.) 

Now, I only have shrimp and snails, but to be a good guy I don't like to refill with too cold water, so I add some water from a kettle to the cold water bucket. 

[Chlorine (but not chloramine) can be removed simply by "airing" the water, no? Surely there are clever ways to speed the dissipation up. /google google/ ah, UV light!] 

[JettsPapa]

On 3/2/2022 at 8:57 PM, SunniSki said:

. . .  Problem is I’m getting older and I swear the buckets get heavier every year

They do.  That's why I use a 2-1/2 gallon bucket.

[Andy's Fish Den]

Once you use a Python or similar system to fill your tanks, you will never use a bucket again. I don't worry about chlorine now, as I have a well, but even when I did, I drained water out using a long hose into my a sink or bathtub, then had python attached to sink, set water temp, and ran the water straight into aquarium. I'd put a dose of prime or whatever dechlorinator before adding water and then another afterwards. 

[dasaltemelosguy]

On 3/2/2022 at 7:44 PM, darkG said:

I do buckets, though not weekly. While I don't have chlorine, I'd rather not use tap warm-water. (I don't trust plants to prevent copper build-up, in particular.) 

Now, I only have shrimp and snails, but to be a good guy I don't like to refill with too cold water, so I add some water from a kettle to the cold water bucket. 

[Chlorine (but not chloramine) can be removed simply by "airing" the water, no? Surely there are clever ways to speed the dissipation up. /google google/ ah, UV light!] 

You're right about that. Running a typical UV sterilizer will break down the chloramine within hours. The chlorine is gone in about an hour by the same method. There's a small chart on the time required for this here: 

 

[Tarazzl]

On 3/2/2022 at 4:16 PM, SunniSki said:

I have been watching a few youtube videos on various aquarium/fish topics...one thing that stood out to me is some people after gravel vacc'ing, they throw declorinator (Prime or whatever they prefer) in their tank and then just fill the tank straight from the tap.  I have always thought you need to decloronate the water first...then fill the tank with that water that you treated.  Am I doing it the old school way?  Maybe I have been doing it wrong all these years?? I am always hauling buckets back and forth with water changes.  I just feel like the water that is coming straight from the tap would hurt my fish. 

I do the same like you. Sunday is always my water change day, and I haul buckets from the bathroom to my tanks back and forth. I pre-mix the conditioner before putting them in the fish tank. I just don't want to harm my fish. But after reading the comments, I might try their methods because my back is killing me every time I do water change.

[Wrencher_Scott]

@SunniSki

I do it like @HH Morant My son does it in the tank and I did too for many years with success. What you do is put the amount of dechlore FIRST into treat the new water, not the whole tank water. I would at least double the recommended amount. 

I have now decided to do it by mixing the declore in a 20 gallon trash can before I add the water to the tank. I'll tell you why. I saw a video of a guy that used to do it the other way and lost all his fish. Apparently the city water was super chlorinated and he didn't know it. He did his usual routine and it was not enough dechlore. A big oops!!! I have since read that this is pretty common for treatment centers to do this once in a while. A sure sign is if you have very smelly water like a swimming pool. I tryed to find the video but couldn't.

I just use a Python from the sink to fill the 20 gallon trash can with a capful of Prime(a cap treats 50 gallons) (any dechlore that says overdosing is ok will do). Then I use a pool test kit to look for any chlorine before I add into the tank with a fountain pump. I made up a hook gizmo for hanging on the tank with 1/2 PVC to make it easier. Python sells one but it's a stupid exspensive piece of plastic.  Oh, I also use a cheap infrared thermometer to get the temp close too. You know, those little gun looking ones. At this point I'm sure I could tell by feel if the temp is good but, well, I have the thing so I use it. 

Better safe then sorry, nothing kills fish quicker than chlorine. 

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 3/3/2022 at 7:26 AM, dasaltemelosguy said:

You're right about that. Running a typical UV sterilizer will break down the chloramine within hours. The chlorine is gone in about an hour by the same method. There's a small chart on the time required for this here: 

 

As for UV, who's to say that that it's lamp is any good? How old is it? They loose effectiveness as they age. There is no way to know for sure. But yes, UV (and sunlight) destroys chlorine fast. I know this from having a swimming pool for 20  years.

There is nothing wrong with using dechlore for fish water, it's harmless. 

[dasaltemelosguy]

On 3/3/2022 at 10:06 AM, Wrencher_Scott said:

As for UV, who's to say that that it's lamp is any good? How old is it? They loose effectiveness as they age. There is no way to know for sure. But yes, UV (and sunlight) destroys chlorine fast. I know this from having a swimming pool for 20  years.

There is nothing wrong with using dechlore for fish water, it's harmless. 

I agree, I use Prime too! But you actually can test the UV bulb easily. For a 9w-13w UV bulb, open the light so the bulb is exposed and get ready to turn it on.

Block it from your eyes! 

Now put a teaspoon of Tide or antifreeze about 2' from the bulb in a dark room. If it fluoresces visibly at that distance or greater, the bulb has full output. If it has enough UV energy to fluoresce from 2' away, that is indicative that the UVC content is 100% for the short distance water passing through it would see. 

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 3/3/2022 at 10:49 AM, dasaltemelosguy said:

I agree, I use Prime too! But you actually can test the UV bulb easily. For a 9w-13w UV bulb, open the light so the bulb is exposed and get ready to turn it on.

Block it from your eyes! 

Now put a teaspoon of Tide or antifreeze about 2' from the bulb in a dark room. If it fluoresces visibly at that distance or greater, the bulb has full output. If it has enough UV energy to fluoresce from 2' away, that is indicative that the UVC content is 100% for the short distance water passing through it would see. 

First, no disrespect meant.

Sorry but I don't buy that method to test the bulb. I can fluoresce stuff like that from way more than 2 feet with my little UV flashlight. I really don't think that is a very scientific way to test UV. UV is supposed to kill organisms not just fluoresce them. 

[dasaltemelosguy]

In truth, the reason is actually scientific but not the way I phrased it! But I try to make things approachable for people who might not have test instruments.

That said, the UVC required to kill organisms within 4cc in water is far less than then UV required to travel in 2' of air and still generate fluorescence. 

Also, a UV flashlight is probably UVB, not UVC and UVB does not sterilize but it can still excite enough for fluorescence. Basically, it's a blacklight.

I wouldn't do it if you're uncomfortable with it either. But you can easily see the degree of disinfection under a microscope but only with UVC.

If you're interested in the mathematics that support it, just DM me so we don't bore everyone!

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 3/3/2022 at 11:09 AM, dasaltemelosguy said:

In truth, the reason is actually scientific but not the way I phrased it! But I try to make things approachable for people who might not have test instruments.

That said, the UVC required to kill organisms within 4cc in water is far less than then UV required to travel in 2' of air and still generate fluorescence. 

Also, a UV flashlight is probably UVB, not UVC and UVB does not sterilize but it can still excite enough for fluorescence. Basically, it's a blacklight.

I wouldn't do it if you're uncomfortable with it either. But you can easily see the degree of disinfection under a microscope but only with UVC.

If you're interested in the mathematics that support it, just DM me so we don't bore everyone!

I appreciate the offer. I do find this topic interesting but I'm afraid the math will be over my head. 

You seem to be a UV expert so I have a question. What do you use for UV and what brand and where do you buy bulbs. Oh, and how long do they last?

I'm always looking for this stuff and when I started digging the rabbit hole got deep real quick. I've read that cheap bulbs off of Amazon are good but man I don't trust them at all! I know they have counterfeit and cheapo stuff. 

Anyway...suggestions?

All I have is the large green killing machine thing now (27 watt) in my 90 gal tall. I have zero idea how well it is working. I do know they kill green algae so no doubt they have to be doing something. I do like the idea of replacing the bulb and housing at the same time with it. This way no need to clean or worry about the plastics degrading from the UV.

[dasaltemelosguy]

No problem @Wrencher_Scott. Those bulbs are rated for 5000 hours of a germicidal level of radiation, but most will do double that.

What I think is important is the life in hours, the wattage and if available, the radiation output in Joules which should be between 16uJ-33uJ. The reason fluorescing from a 2' distance in free air will tell you its working is that UV loses 75% of its power every time you double the distance from the bulb. If you equate that to the power it has just cm's close to the water, it's actually twice the level of UV required to kill bacteria. 

But I do understand that you'd like a bit more precision than making detergent glow in the dark! 

To that end, they make these really cool UV test strips.

You simply hold it 1" from the UV bulb and it changes color ONLY if there's a germicidal level of UV radiation present. They are cheap and you may buy them in bulk and verify your UV light has bacteria killing UV output as often as you wish:

UV Test Strip-1

This is another one with more graduations:

UV Test Strip-Meter

Here's a short video of someone using the UVC test strip above with a portable UV sterilizer:

This is a good chart to show how long it takes to kill various pathogens. "Shielding", the UV industry's term for shadows blocking UV light is one cause of imperfect sterilization. But what's most apparent here is that UV would require more time than flowing water would allow to kill eggs, so they pass right through anyway. 

I don't know the UVC output of the GKM but if it really kills algae in real time, it's pretty powerful as if you look at the chart, algae are by far the most difficult to negate via UV!

I hope this helps. Good luck. 

[Streetwise]

I feel really lucky that the chlorine treatment in my water district is so minimal, that I don’t have to worry at all. I fill my buckets from the tub, and I only off-gas if I smell any chlorine. Otherwise, I just let buckets sit to hit room temperature.

[Bev C]

  I might be doing this wrong

I kinda do both old school and new school.. my area the water is a mess ,,i still follow water prep the way my fish store told me when i started out many years ago 

I run tab water in 2 trash cans enough for my water change and let it sit 24-48 hours before water change.. with small heaters ,,  to make sure it is the same temp as the tank 

The pet store when i started out said the harmful chemicals runs dead 24-48 hours room temperature,,in water that sits out    

but i put in prime  for  trash can sizes i have 10 gallon can and a 20 gallon can and let it set 24-48 hours with the heaters 

When i had smaller tanks i used buckets ,, but now with a 55 gallon i use a water hose not a garden hose and a water pump ,,to transfer water 

Can not use a python hose with my disability i put  the pump in the tank to empty my 30% and then put the pump in the trash cans to pump water in the tank then

After filling the tank i add more prime for the whole tank again since the water sat out 24-48 hours with the old prime dose  Seachem says prime last for48 hours before you need to dose again