Jump to content

Alternative Nitrate Reduction via Emergents


Recommended Posts

I absolutely love this! Thank you, @dasaltemelosguy! I am looking at canisters for mechanical filtration, in tank plants for biological filtration, and yes, Pothos and nitrogen hogs for additional waste processing! Oddly enough, I am finding these same principles applicable to saltwater tanks! Looking at a weird addition of mangroves in a "brackish side step" to my V-Sump.

Thank you so much for posting this!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thank you. This was fantastic. I use pothos in all my tanks now in the plastic egg crate inspired by you awhile ago. I have been eyeing lucky bamboo for a few months but was afraid I would lose too much nitrate consumption by switching out the pothos. I was never convinced enough on the nitrate home media to try it so it’s good to know I’m not missing out. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

First off, this is excellent for so many reasons! 

To begin with, I've been speaking to some folks at the local aquarium club about the possibility of providing small grants to help members do their own research, and then present it to the club (and perhaps more widely).  This will be the example I will use to sell the concept.  It is the gold standard I have run across for this scale of work.  Well done!!!

Also, that Dracaena braunii, a.k.a. "lucky bambo", frankly, just looks awesome in that tank.  The impacts on nitrogenous wastes aside. 

Lastly, I began interacting on fish forums a bit over a year ago because I was hoping to hash out with folks which FW plants might make for the best refugium on a sump design.  I failed in that first effort for a variety of reasons.  I was lucky I found two good people to talk to about it (one of whom directed me to this forum, and I've not looked back), and they completely changed how I view the format of sumps.  But for the refugium piece, I've never had a thorough test available for any of the things I've been able to discuss in concept.  And here, you have set it all out before me.  Done the work.  And made it accessible.  I can't tank you enough!  You have once again changed my entire paradigm about optimizing a sump.  I'm redesigning my sump (this project has taken for-ev-er!) to include a place for terrestrial plants rather than a submerged refugium system like in SW sumps, entirely based on the merits of your presentation here.

Thank you for sharing your results!

  • Like 2
  • Love 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I might need an "Explain it like I'm 5" for this one...but if I'm reading this correctly, the most effective setup for processing nitrates would be terrestrial plants (pothos or lucky bamboo in this case) grown with their roots in the water, blasted with white and red spectrum light?

Is that pretty much the long and short of it?

(I only ask because I'm at a bit of a crossroads with my own refugium project where I'm not necessarily seeing the results I was initially hoping for and my sump system is precarious at best. So something that I wasn't constantly worrying about flooding my living room would definitely be worth exploring)

Edited by B1gJ4k3
Additional information
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@B1gJ4k3 I use pothos, peace lilly, lucky bamboo, areca palm and other plants in my setups and they make maintenance a breeze, I easily go a month and often more without needing to do a water change. I do not use a refugium (my filtration is just a sponge filter(s)) but rather let the plants grow above the water line of the display tank with overhead lighting. They remove the nitrates, provide shade which minimizes algae growth and help the fish feel safe, and they add beauty to the aquariums. I would highly recommend it to anyone looking for a healthy low maintenance aquarium. 

  • Like 3
  • Love 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/8/2021 at 7:31 PM, B1gJ4k3 said:

I might need an "Explain it like I'm 5" for this one...but if I'm reading this correctly, the most effective setup for processing nitrates would be terrestrial plants (pothos or lucky bamboo in this case) grown with their roots in the water, blasted with white and red spectrum light?

Is that pretty much the long and short of it?

(I only ask because I'm at a bit of a crossroads with my own refugium project where I'm not necessarily seeing the results I was initially hoping for and my sump system is precarious at best. So something that I wasn't constantly worrying about flooding my living room would definitely be worth exploring)

No need, you understood it perfectly. You're spot on. Not that our tests were exhaustive but of these plants: Pothos, Monstera, Peace lily, Lucky Bamboo and Anthurium, the Lucky Bamboo used the most nitrates and the peace lily, the least. My suspicion on the latter being it is outcompeted by the other plants. I just read about your refugium project and it sounds frankly, awesome. I may copy your idea! In any event, yes, the Lucky Bamboo under red light will use the most nitrates. White light if bright enough, will do the same but adds some blue which is needed for ammonification if desired. 

On 11/7/2021 at 5:58 PM, eatyourpeas said:

I absolutely love this! Thank you, @dasaltemelosguy! I am looking at canisters for mechanical filtration, in tank plants for biological filtration, and yes, Pothos and nitrogen hogs for additional waste processing! Oddly enough, I am finding these same principles applicable to saltwater tanks! Looking at a weird addition of mangroves in a "brackish side step" to my V-Sump.

Thank you so much for posting this!

Thank you so much for the very kind words. I was lucky in that the LFS owners gave us lab access so we were finally able to attach numerical values to real world results.  I'd love to hear more about your saltwater findings. In particular I had always wondered about mangroves. Thanks again. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/8/2021 at 6:58 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

First off, this is excellent for so many reasons! 

To begin with, I've been speaking to some folks at the local aquarium club about the possibility of providing small grants to help members do their own research, and then present it to the club (and perhaps more widely).  This will be the example I will use to sell the concept.  It is the gold standard I have run across for this scale of work.  Well done!!!

Also, that Dracaena braunii, a.k.a. "lucky bambo", frankly, just looks awesome in that tank.  The impacts on nitrogenous wastes aside. 

Lastly, I began interacting on fish forums a bit over a year ago because I was hoping to hash out with folks which FW plants might make for the best refugium on a sump design.  I failed in that first effort for a variety of reasons.  I was lucky I found two good people to talk to about it (one of whom directed me to this forum, and I've not looked back), and they completely changed how I view the format of sumps.  But for the refugium piece, I've never had a thorough test available for any of the things I've been able to discuss in concept.  And here, you have set it all out before me.  Done the work.  And made it accessible.  I can't tank you enough!  You have once again changed my entire paradigm about optimizing a sump.  I'm redesigning my sump (this project has taken for-ev-er!) to include a place for terrestrial plants rather than a submerged refugium system like in SW sumps, entirely based on the merits of your presentation here.

Thank you for sharing your results!

Thank you so much! I'm so happy some people are finding the findings of value! I love your idea of sponsored research! I never thought of that but with some inexpensive equipment and educated volunteers, there's infinite potential! 

I'm very interested in the sump idea. That would allow for much more control and efficacy than what I did on top. Guess we gotta watch for bamboo sales!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/7/2021 at 8:30 PM, Isaac M said:

@AndEEss in my experience it does grow roots at the base but they are not very substantial. More like that of an aquatic stem plant rather than a sword plant or crypt. 

Exactly. One of my parrots dug one up and after 3 months, the roots are still seem no larger but the plant is now 6' tall! Go figure!

 lbr_.jpg.27ceff22c1dedb517629e727f9a811f3.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/7/2021 at 11:08 PM, Guppysnail said:

Thank you. This was fantastic. I use pothos in all my tanks now in the plastic egg crate inspired by you awhile ago. I have been eyeing lucky bamboo for a few months but was afraid I would lose too much nitrate consumption by switching out the pothos. I was never convinced enough on the nitrate home media to try it so it’s good to know I’m not missing out. 

Thank you so much for the very kind words. I too wondered about the bamboo's efficacy until we tested it as it's not all that green and is not a fast grower, imperfect signs of high nitrate eaters. I can't explain why the bamboo took twice the time to potentiate over the pothos but eventually it prevailed. The only caveat I see being my latest "grove" grew 3' taller in 3 months! I may need a skylight!

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@dasaltemelosguy Thank you so much for this!  I’m so glad you’ve done all this testing and laid out your findings so well.  Your tank inspired me months ago and now your research inspires me further!

I’m finding my lucky bamboo growing faster than I expected and I would love to see pics of your super tall bamboo!

Here is a pic of my bamboo tops at the beginning just a few months ago (July 26) and then one tonight.

43F1F34B-811F-4829-9401-DB26F19C382C.jpeg

79173A29-81C2-4D1A-BCBB-FA38DC6AF36A.jpeg

Plus the difference in the pothos and peace lily.

  • Like 4
  • Love 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@dasaltemelosguy or anyone, OK, I went to my local Walmart (live in a small town, not too many choices) and found some lucky bamboo, I cut a piece of the egg crate plastic to fit the back of my aquarium so now what?  I separated the bamboo stalks-there are 5 of them-they are a little big to fit through the 1/2 in squares of the egg crate-do you just squish them down in there or cut bigger holes in the egg crate?  Do I leave the existing roots or cut them off and let them grow new "water roots"? I really wanted some pothos, but couldn't find any. I'm really excited about this!

100B0802-BF8D-4679-AB28-A00A87B1464F.jpeg

BACF1774-C3F2-45D6-BDAC-EE2BB91B599A_1_201_a.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I did was when the stalks or plants were too large for a single hole, I didn't want to force them so I twisted out the little partitions to make the holes wider. A tight grip with a pliers and a bit of wiggling and they snap right out.

I remove the 4 in the circle for a larger opening:

GRID-.jpg.c7ba74a855adf9cdb3d6c8b5a079ab2d.jpg

Also as they grow, you may need to snap 2 or 4 more out to accommodate their growth. My anthurium fattened up so greatly, I had open one to 4 x 4 holes in size! 

When I snap out the little partitions, I put a net under it should and fragments shatter. Also a single hacksaw blade fits in one hole to score them or saw them out too.

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is such a great experiment, laid out well making it reasonably easy to follow. This absolutely cements that I will be using lucky bamboo and pothos.

Is it required to start with lucky bamboo that goes from planted at bottom to out of tank at top? The tank I wanna use is 25” tall so I would need to start with a 30” piece?

On 11/8/2021 at 9:58 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

I've been speaking to some folks at the local aquarium club about the possibility of providing small grants to help members do their own research, and then present it to the club (and perhaps more widely)

Awesome idea! Really will help promote a more educational approach to this hobby.

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know, OnlyGenusCaps has an inspired idea there. I know I'm going to ask the people who helped with the tests about it next I see them. 

One of my tanks is 25" also. The bamboo with the curl on top doesn't quite fit so you may want to find straight stalks. I bought 32" stalks but with the curl, it doesn't quite reach past it. 

I don't know if they actually need to be planted. We did so and I assume the detritus in the gravel helps them grow but in truth, I don't really know. They are typically sold to be kept in water in a bowl or vase with periodic additives of nutrients so perhaps the roots do not need planting? 

If anyone knows, I'd be very curious myself. They are insanely hardy but if the leaves lie in the water, they will rot. So long as the leaves have air, they seem to start getting taller after about a month. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/7/2021 at 4:54 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

I wish this could be more extensive and exhaustive and less anecdotal but given the limitations of our testing, one thing I can say with confidence, is there's no greater nitrate reduction one can get for a freshwater tank for $20!

It’s good you have access to a great group to do some crowd sourced testing. 😀I have a tank in mind already! 

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...