All year around pond fish

[Griznatch]

Most fish will self regulate by moving up and down in the water column to suit their needs. Seasonal temperature fluctuations are usually so slow and gradual that most non-tropical fish can adapt. I only have a surface heater on my pond so that the entire thing doesn't freeze over. That'd block out any gas exchanges and kill the fish.

[Patrick_G]

The koi farm near me seriously recommends ponds at least three feet deep for temperature and predator control. For me that wasn’t practical since I had already built a two foot deep container, but it’s solid advice nonetheless.

[Taco Playz]

Any other good heaters that are for a good price?

[Patrick_G]

@Taco Playz you could also look into a inline heater or one built into a canister filter. 

[KentFishFanUK]

On 7/19/2021 at 4:08 PM, Taco Playz said:

So me and my dad @Jbeezydad were thinking about maybe setting up a pond that goes all year around. We wanted to do some Ricefish. I heard they can go in very cold temps but not alot lower than 50F. In the winter were we live it can get pretty cold. Any suggestions for all year around fish or is there not any all year around fish. Thanks!

Not so long ago I spoke with a guy in Austria who is breeding and selling different strains of rice fish, he said they can overwinter outside and will tolerate a thin ice cap (though obviously not freezing all the way through). Not first hand experience but still, I'm in the UK and Austria has a similar climate to here. 

I keep a couple goldfish in a small outdoor pond and they do just fine all winter in the UK, the usual advice us that as long as the pond is 24" deep then they will do fine. My pond is only 18" deep and they have been fine anyway but it's an in the ground pond not tub which will insulate it somewhat. 

Unless your part of the world has very extreme winters you'd probably be just fine with either of those all winter. You could always get one of those floating pond heaters/place the pond somewhere sheltered like near the house/maybe wrap the pond in some sort of insulation or even dig it partially in the ground to be sure. 

Goldfish can basically hibernate near the bottom of the pond when it's very very cold, their metabolism slows down and they don't eat or move much and you aren't supposed to put food in. Maybe rice fish do something similar? I assume koi do the same but not sure about other fish. 

[CalmedByFish]

On 7/19/2021 at 10:08 AM, Taco Playz said:

We wanted to do some Ricefish.

Just a heads-up. I researched "Daisy's blue rice fish" and Medaka (before settling on endlers). It turns out they're not the same species. If you do decide on "rice fish" or "medaka," make sure you know exactly what you're getting. That way, you'll accurately know what their needs are. 

[Patrick_G]

A great video on Ricefish by @Ryo Watanabe

 

[Taco Playz]

So rice fish are VERY RARE IN MY AREA. I wanted to buy them off Aqua Huna is there any different breeds you would reccomend. Also we have tons of raccoons our area so anything to keep them away. Thanks!!

[Expectorating_Aubergine]

Common paradise fish can be outside year round. Where they come from in Australia gets ice on the water.....

[Patrick_G]

On 7/21/2021 at 7:48 AM, Expectorating_Aubergine said:

Common paradise fish can be outside year round. Where they come from in Australia gets ice on the water.....

I think the Paradise Gourami is a tropical temperature fish from Asia, but maybe we’re thinking of different species. 

[CalmedByFish]

On 7/21/2021 at 7:26 AM, Taco Playz said:

So rice fish are VERY RARE IN MY AREA. I wanted to buy them off Aqua Huna is there any different breeds you would reccomend. Also we have tons of raccoons our area so anything to keep them away. Thanks!!

I'd say to find videos of the different colors of medaka, taken from above the surface of the water. That will help you see what they'll actually look like from above, and maybe you'll recognize a color you prefer, or just don't prefer.

Maybe you can even find views of the color(s) you like taken in tubs/ponds with dark bottoms and light bottoms, to see what looks better to you. 

[Expectorating_Aubergine]

The fish I'm talking about is Macropodus opercularis. It's actually a subtropical fish that many people recommend for pond keeping. If you look at their range, they do occur where temperatures get low enough for surface ice to form. I have kept them outside before, and can confirm that the cold is not a problem for them. Where I live it can get down to the low 40's in the winter, occasionally into the 30's. When that happens we get ice. Mine had no problems. They not only survived the winter, but bred successfully before and after.

[Sandra the fish rookie]

@Daniel I have a little outdoor water feature which is supposed to be a 7 g pond.. I wanted to test it first.. and currently in my screen porch its 83 degrees! The coldest it got (no heater) was 58. I live in Wilmington NC.. 

Eventually I would like to make a larger one outside, but am concerned about a few things 

1) Hurricanes! What would you do with a pond outside (if not dug into the ground)?

2) Heat! Do you ever worry about the water getting too warm?

3) Dragon flies (don't their larva kill fish?? Can't remember where I heard that.. I could be wrong

Anyone can chime in here.. just curious what everyone does. I am super jelly of all of these beautiful outdoor ponds!!! I am getting inspired.. OH OH... haha

[CalmedByFish]

On 7/21/2021 at 3:26 PM, Sandra the fish rookie said:

Hurricanes! What would you do with a pond outside (if not dug into the ground)?

I've been wondering about this too. For that matter, if it is dug into the ground, what happens when a hurricane floods the yard? Fish "beached" in the grass? 

I'm hoping to do a stock tank that's large enough, so heavy enough, to not get turned over by a hurricane. Perhaps with some kind of heavy-duty screen that can be anchored on top to keep fish from being flooded over the edge, or whooshed out by waves.

 

[Patrick_G]

On 7/21/2021 at 10:03 AM, Expectorating_Aubergine said:

The fish I'm talking about is Macropodus opercularis. It's actually a subtropical fish that many people recommend for pond keeping. If you look at their range, they do occur where temperatures get low enough for surface ice to form. I have kept them outside before, and can confirm that the cold is not a problem for them. Where I live it can get down to the low 40's in the winter, occasionally into the 30's. When that happens we get ice. Mine had no problems. They not only survived the winter, but bred successfully before and after.

That’s really cool. They would be a great extended season pond fish here in the Seattle area. 

[Patrick_G]

@Sandra the fish rookie, sorry to hijack the thread, but I just want to give a shout out to a fellow Wilmingtonian! I lived there as a kid in the 80s and still have close friends there. 

[Guppy Guy]

On 7/21/2021 at 4:26 PM, Sandra the fish rookie said:

3) Dragon flies (don't their larva kill fish?? Can't remember where I heard that.. I could be wrong

Dragonflies only eat the fish fry. If you have see and of the Michaels fish room videos on YouTube, you will know this by heart.

I would say it is only a threat if you are trying to breed fish or have small fish(<1.5”). Otherwise, they are just ugly.

[KentFishFanUK]

On 7/21/2021 at 6:03 PM, Expectorating_Aubergine said:

The fish I'm talking about is Macropodus opercularis. It's actually a subtropical fish that many people recommend for pond keeping. If you look at their range, they do occur where temperatures get low enough for surface ice to form. I have kept them outside before, and can confirm that the cold is not a problem for them. Where I live it can get down to the low 40's in the winter, occasionally into the 30's. When that happens we get ice. Mine had no problems. They not only survived the winter, but bred successfully before and after.

Interesting that you've experienced that, a quick Google search and the guides mention temps much higher than that. I remember Cory mentioning an anecdote about another tropical fish (which one escapes me but I think it was a cichlid) that survived being iced over and I've heard plenty of people talk about white clouds and danios and rice fish etc in very cold water.

Makes me wonder if actually many more species than most of us realise might be able to survive those temperatures at least for short periods of time and we only don't know because we don't try (for obvious reasons). 

Edit: oops Cory already brought it up on this very topic (though I heard him mention it in a video too) and it was firemouth cichlids

Edited July 22, 2021 by KentFishFanUK
For being dumb!

[CalmedByFish]

On 7/21/2021 at 10:58 PM, KentFishFanUK said:

Makes me wonder if actually many more species than most of us realise might be able to survive those temperatures at least for short periods of time and we only don't know because we don't try (for obvious reasons). 

If I remember right, back during the Texas Freeze, Goliad Farms had just a couple survivors from some species. Maybe the ability to survive is present but rare within a species - like how a small percentage of humans could survive lower temps than most. Though that doesn't easily answer the question of how, which would be interesting. 

[Daniel]

On 7/21/2021 at 4:26 PM, Sandra the fish rookie said:

@Daniel I have a little outdoor water feature which is supposed to be a 7 g pond.. I wanted to test it first.. and currently in my screen porch its 83 degrees! The coldest it got (no heater) was 58. I live in Wilmington NC.. 

Eventually I would like to make a larger one outside, but am concerned about a few things 

1) Hurricanes! What would you do with a pond outside (if not dug into the ground)?

2) Heat! Do you ever worry about the water getting too warm?

3) Dragon flies (don't their larva kill fish?? Can't remember where I heard that.. I could be wrong

Anyone can chime in here.. just curious what everyone does. I am super jelly of all of these beautiful outdoor ponds!!! I am getting inspired.. OH OH... haha

I live in North Carolina also and the last hurricane that passed over us was Fran and it wrecked our house, so even the fish inside were affected. I don't have any solution for hurricanes.

The water at the surface of the pond last year reached 95°F but it didn't seem to harm any of the fish. I think it's cooler in the deeper parts of the pond. Even the rice fish who spent a lot of time at the surface didn't seem to be bothered by the warm waters in July and August.

Dragonflies, yes there are tons of dragonflies. The primary food for dragonflies seems to be tadpoles. I'm sure they eat a few fish, but not enough to put a dent in the population of fishes. Just think about the real world of streams and ponds that get hot and have predators and dragonflies and such and everything works out there so why should it be any different in our ponds?

Wilmington NC would be a near perfect location for an outdoor tub or pond. I would say go for it and see what happens.

 

[Sandra the fish rookie]

@Daniel Here is the other "little" issue. I live off a nature reserve (which is delightful) but we have A LOT of birds! Big and small. So wondering how I could hide the fish but still enjoy seeing them.. II am pretty elevated, so flooding is not an issue for me (thankfully). Wonder if I should dig it in a bit, so its solid and wonder if it would help with heat?? Maybe keeping the bottom cooler? But I REALLY want a outdoor tub 🙂 what size does everyone recommend? If I had my choice.. it would be HUGE.. but being realistic I want to enjoy it and not have to be constantly maintaining it.. Thinking something already pre made (like Lowes/home depot) type.. 

@Patrick_G I moved to Wilmington NC 14 years ago from Canada! Love it here.. 

[Daniel]

On 7/22/2021 at 8:51 AM, Sandra the fish rookie said:

@Daniel Here is the other "little" issue. I live off a nature reserve (which is delightful) but we have A LOT of birds! Big and small. So wondering how I could hide the fish but still enjoy seeing them.. II am pretty elevated, so flooding is not an issue for me (thankfully). Wonder if I should dig it in a bit, so its solid and wonder if it would help with heat?? Maybe keeping the bottom cooler? But I REALLY want a outdoor tub 🙂 what size does everyone recommend? If I had my choice.. it would be HUGE.. but being realistic I want to enjoy it and not have to be constantly maintaining it.. Thinking something already pre made (like Lowes/home depot) type.. 

@Patrick_G I moved to Wilmington NC 14 years ago from Canada! Love it here.. 

I would definitely dig the tub in as that is a really good way to even out temperature swings. As far as birds go, I don't think there is a good way to hide the tub from them. In my experience almost all the fish are okay almost all the time, but the birds do eat some of the fish, some of the time. Nature works that way.

I would get the biggest tub you can afford as it makes everything fish-wise better for the fish.

[JoshStover]

Check out LRB Aquatics on YouTube. He has lots of videos on overwintering above ground ponds. He gets some serious winter weather and his fish and plants seem to do well in his ponds

[Expectorating_Aubergine]

On 7/21/2021 at 8:58 PM, KentFishFanUK said:

Interesting that you've experienced that, a quick Google search and the guides mention temps much higher than that. I remember Cory mentioning an anecdote about another tropical fish (which one escapes me but I think it was a cichlid) that survived being iced over and I've heard plenty of people talk about white clouds and danios and rice fish etc in very cold water.

Makes me wonder if actually many more species than most of us realise might be able to survive those temperatures at least for short periods of time and we only don't know because we don't try (for obvious reasons). 

Edit: oops Cory already brought it up on this very topic (though I heard him mention it in a video too) and it was firemouth cichlids

There are tons of both tropical and subtropical fish that can handle the cold just fine. There are many parts of the United States that have snakeheads, a tropical Asian fish species, living as invasive in their waters. Many of these places get very cold in the winter and the fish not only persist, but thrive. I believe the same could be said about pacu. I have a hunch *puts on tinfoil hat* that part of the reason you don't hear about it much is people worrying about species getting banned as potentially "invasives" if there was lots of evidence of them surviving cold weather. *takes off tinfoil hat*

[Taco Playz]

Is there anything that y’all would recommend for raccoons here in Kentucky there are TONS OF THEM.