Reverse Respiration

[nabokovfan87]

I've got 12L of seltzer on standby for tomorrow.  Now here's to hoping I can find a container to fit this wood and have it be fully submerged with all the anubias attached.  I'll make a trip to the local shop to get a black tub or I'm going to need to borrow the one from the pups!

I'll try to get this one done correctly without issues!

Just to confirm.  Should I treat this for 12 hours still, increase it, or is there something I specifically need to do because this algae is so stubborn?

[Guppysnail]

On 8/16/2022 at 3:35 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I've got 12L of seltzer on standby for tomorrow.  Now here's to hoping I can find a container to fit this wood and have it be fully submerged with all the anubias attached.  I'll make a trip to the local shop to get a black tub or I'm going to need to borrow the one from the pups!

I'll try to get this one done correctly without issues!

Just to confirm.  Should I treat this for 12 hours still, increase it, or is there something I specifically need to do because this algae is so stubborn?

12 hours in the dark. Make sure you dry the wood well so it’s not introducing so much water into the bath. Make sure the second oxygen water bath is well oxygenated. 
 

Like I mentioned before I would pop the plants off. Buy a $1 bottle of h2o2 or two from the grocery. I pour that on wood directly and let sit 5 minutes and scrub with a brush and repeat until no algae remains. Returning that much dead algae to a tank that is really struggling with algae will release gobs of nutrients from the dead algae. In turn making perfect breeding ground for new algae to thrive. This would also reduce the risk of to much water being introduced into the bath. 

Im fickle so re-glue my anubias and Java fern many times before I’m satisfied with placement and it never hurt the plant. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/16/2022 at 2:02 AM, Guppysnail said:

Im fickle so re-glue my anubias and Java fern many times before I’m satisfied with placement and it never hurt the plant. 

Yeah, I have taken to suction cupping them while they recover from the algae.

Thank you for the details above and repeating everything. I'll treat the plants for now with RR, use the H2O2 on the wood as mentioned.

I removed a ton of the algae but there's one spot that's difficult to remove things from. The amanos have been working on it and I'll see how they do today with it.

[Guppysnail]

On 8/16/2022 at 9:58 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Yeah, I have taken to suction cupping them while they recover from the algae.

Thank you for the details above and repeating everything. I'll treat the plants for now with RR, use the H2O2 on the wood as mentioned.

I removed a ton of the algae but there's one spot that's difficult to remove things from. The amanos have been working on it and I'll see how they do today with it.

One thing I should mention about your wood totally off topic. I just removed 2 pieces of wood from my tanks 1 old one new because algae was becoming an issue on them. I occasionally over the years have gotten pieces that just release so much nutrients they are a continuous source of algae. I think it was @Odd Duck that has experienced this same issue with woods. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

@nabokovfan87 can you remove any of the algae with a toothbrush after the treatment?  Does it release its grip at all?

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/16/2022 at 7:40 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

@nabokovfan87 can you remove any of the algae with a toothbrush after the treatment?  Does it release its grip at all?

The sponge I was using has two holes in it now.  I could probably use sandpaper and get it off.  The toothbrush just doesn't work for this stuff.  I equate it to coral.  It's formed an attachment and it's bonded and it is it's home now so to speak.  It's very, very stubborn stuff to get off. I reduced it probably 60% on the wood. On the rocks about 80%.  The small pores on the rock, I don't think anything but chemicals will remove that one.

And then... say I get the wood, rock, plants clean.  My hope is that the stuff stuck on the frame of the tank, equipment, etc. will just die off and be out competed.  One bloom and I'm back to square one.  This stuff has cycles and waves.  My focus being, apart from treatment and removal, is to have consistency in parameters for the plants. 

I was also reading about how some corydoras won't spawn if they see algae because they assume the eggs won't hatch.  Which explains a lot of the struggles 😞 .

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/16/2022 at 10:55 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

It's formed an attachment and it's bonded and it is it's home now so to speak.  It's very, very stubborn stuff to get off

If only the mosses we actually want to have would do this. 😆

On 8/16/2022 at 10:55 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

treatment and removal

Maybe you need like, 100 shrimp to help you.  What you need are critters that like to nom on the stuff so you don't have to do so much work.

On 8/16/2022 at 10:55 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I was also reading about how some corydoras won't spawn if they see algae because they assume the eggs won't hatch.

Well that stinks. 😐

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/16/2022 at 8:40 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

If only the mosses we actually want to have would do this.

BUT IT IS DOING IT NOW! I'm so excited.  Moss is loving the CO2 and going nicely.  I turned the rock sideways and working on growing out the moss wall.  🙂

I'll dip the plants out tonight. I ordered a bunch of plant weights as to avoid the silverware drawer.

On 8/16/2022 at 8:40 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Maybe you need like, 100 shrimp to help you.

I had 15, down to 10.  Definitely getting some more.

[Guppysnail]

On 8/16/2022 at 6:07 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I'll dip the plants out tonight. I ordered a bunch of plant weights as to avoid the silverware drawer.

I could not color inside the lines to save my life 🤣

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/16/2022 at 6:07 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

had 15, down to 10.  Definitely getting some more.

Are they eating it?

On 8/16/2022 at 6:07 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I ordered a bunch of plant weights as to avoid the silverware drawer.

LOL

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/16/2022 at 6:22 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Are they eating it?

I think my older amanos do a better job. Bigger appetite. It's a balance of starving the tank to get them to eat the algae vs. other foods. I'll treat the tank, starve them for 2-4 days and see what happens. I stare at what the shrimp eat more than anything. The Corydoras I've even seen grazing on the algae which is cool.

Everything in the tank is being treated. I'll add it to the tank in the morning and hopefully not screw up the cycle too much. The plants, rock, etc. Will be clean and I hope the plants bounce back and then I'll pull the wood and treat that separately.

I just hope... I'm so tired of fighting the algae. I hope the shrimp eat what need be and then that the plants out compete everything else.

I can handle green, brown diatoms. This stuff (red algae) is just the absolute worst.

[Odd Duck]

@nabokovfan87You might consider adding bristlenose plecos if you don’t have any.  They will work your wood.  I have nerites and rarely appreciate eggs for long.  I suspect my plecos are rasping them off.  I also don’t get much BBA on my wood in my 100G nano despite my neglect and having plenty on my poor neglected plants in that tank.

I'm pretty certain I would be BBA free if I did half as much as I advise people to do (if I was a cobbler . . . my kids would have no shoes) since my BBA typically cleans up pretty readily when I’m doing my share of the work instead of relying so much on inhabitants.

[Odd Duck]

On 8/16/2022 at 8:01 AM, Guppysnail said:

I think it was @Odd Duck that has experienced this same issue with woods.

Yes, in my tiny 2 G tank.  I had a nice bit of driftwood with some nice, tiny tank proportional, fine leaved Buces on it.  Never could get that tank balanced.  Finally took the wood out and left the tank alone except water changes and viola!  I’ve been slowly making small changes to give it a little something more for variety, but I’ve found I have to micro size my changes or it gets out of whack again.  I do water changes or top offs right now.  I’ll “fix it” after it’s in the Offish.  Might try a reset somewhere before then if I get a wild hair.

Pic with wood when it looked nice before repeatedly crashing.

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Odd Duck
Add pic

[nabokovfan87]

I pulled all the anubias off the wood. I'll vac the substrate to remove anything that settled on the surface and then add the plants tomorrow. All the plants, literally everything, is in the seltzer minus the wood.

I have a bin, I'll pull the wood, add the plants and rocks back, treat the wood, scrape it as best I can as well, and then we'll see how everything does.

Honestly, my biggest concern is the hygro pinnatifida.

On 8/16/2022 at 10:49 PM, Odd Duck said:

nabokovfan87You might consider adding bristlenose plecos if you don’t have any.  

In the big tank I had a BN pleco as well as a RL pleco.  One did a lot of work on the glass, the other did a lot of work on the other surfaces and was more nocturnal.

Next time I'm at the shop with "quality" fish I'll try to find something, but the tank right now has 2 clowns.  I'm planning to move one out, have one clown in each tank. Then take my main tank in my room and stack it with a few more amanos.

[nabokovfan87]

After the treatment, rescape, etc.  It looks much better in person 🙂

Algae on the rocks it doesn't seem like it did much to the "pores" that are little specs of algae all over the surface.








Full Shot:

 

[Guppysnail]

@nabokovfan87 looks like you nailed it this time. Great job. If by pores you mean tiny black almost spikey dots???…. I have manzanita that did that for the better part of 2 years. It never grew more than the tiny spikes though. I would scrub it off but then it would come back same spikes little black spots. I often wondered if it was something like sap still coming out. That may account for some algae issues all that excess nutrients 🤷‍♀️ It finally stopped one time after I scrubbed it and threw it in a drawer for 6 months. 
 

BTW fantastic shape on that wood. Great find. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by Guppysnail

[nabokovfan87]

It's on the Seiryu stone.  The surface has craters and nicks and so forth and it's where the algae took hold.  I removed the algae manually by scrubbing it, then you're left with the smallest little bit still latched on and it looks like the rock has blackheads, etc.  My hope was that with the RR treatment all of those would change red or white.



This one is in focus, you can see it a lot more clearly here.

[Odd Duck]

On 8/17/2022 at 1:16 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I pulled all the anubias off the wood. I'll vac the substrate to remove anything that settled on the surface and then add the plants tomorrow. All the plants, literally everything, is in the seltzer minus the wood.

I have a bin, I'll pull the wood, add the plants and rocks back, treat the wood, scrape it as best I can as well, and then we'll see how everything does.

Honestly, my biggest concern is the hygro pinnatifida.

In the big tank I had a BN pleco as well as a RL pleco.  One did a lot of work on the glass, the other did a lot of work on the other surfaces and was more nocturnal.

Next time I'm at the shop with "quality" fish I'll try to find something, but the tank right now has 2 clowns.  I'm planning to move one out, have one clown in each tank. Then take my main tank in my room and stack it with a few more amanos.

With what you’re doing to kill the algae, I’d bet your plecos will be able to keep up better.  Clowns are known for rasping wood, and so will BN’s.  I’m not sure what you mean by RL pleco, but I’m very tired tonight.

On 8/17/2022 at 1:43 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

It's on the Seiryu stone.  The surface has craters and nicks and so forth and it's where the algae took hold.  I removed the algae manually by scrubbing it, then you're left with the smallest little bit still latched on and it looks like the rock has blackheads, etc.  My hope was that with the RR treatment all of those would change red or white.



This one is in focus, you can see it a lot more clearly here.

I would test an inconspicuous spot so you can tell if it leaves scratches in the stone, but if the CUC doesn’t finish off those spots, you might try a wire brush and see if that gets rid of those tufts better.

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/17/2022 at 9:54 PM, Odd Duck said:

I’m not sure what you mean by RL pleco, but I’m very tired tonight.

Rubberlip / Bulldog Pleco.  It's basically designed for getting plate algae / diatoms off of surfaces.  Big algae lips!



For comparison, pleco mouth:



Oto Mouth: (very similar to BNPs

On 8/17/2022 at 9:54 PM, Odd Duck said:

I would test an inconspicuous spot so you can tell if it leaves scratches in the stone, but if the CUC doesn’t finish off those spots, you might try a wire brush and see if that gets rid of those tufts better.

Awesome idea. Will do.  For the remaining stuff on the wood I was going to try some 80 grit sandpaper.

I do have some seltzer left to do one more treatment on the rocks if I need to or some plants that still have lingering issues.

[Guppysnail]

On 8/18/2022 at 2:03 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Rubberlip / Bulldog Pleco.  It's basically designed for getting plate algae / diatoms off of surfaces.  Big algae lips!



For comparison, pleco mouth:



Oto Mouth: (very similar to BNPs

Awesome idea. Will do.  For the remaining stuff on the wood I was going to try some 80 grit sandpaper.

I do have some seltzer left to do one more treatment on the rocks if I need to or some plants that still have lingering issues.

Look at those adorable lips 😍. You can try h2o2 on the stone as well. 

[Bev C]

Hi everyone 

 I finally got some more Seltzer water and did all my 2nd soak with my main tank plants, the plants that I have had the longest.   I did not have any problems with the soak.  It took the algae off the plants and killed some snails, and the plants never looks so green ...

The plants are not getting any more algae back on them, but they are not growing or getting any new growth, it has been 3-5 weeks they are still alive, but the growth is stunted ... I have been using the Fertilizers, I have  trying different doses . But I think my plants were dying way before the soak, and after many different treatments because of having algae over a year.

I do not think it is because. Of the seltzer water, I might give it another couple months to see what happens. But I might have to replace the plants. But at least I know the seltzer water will help with algae, and they might have a better chance in the future ,,,  

Edited August 21, 2022 by Bev C

[nabokovfan87]

Cleaned the tank today and scrubbed the living crap out of the algae on the wood.  the S. Repens seems to be doing well and I am seeing that now.  The tissue culture I got has some new plants or I was just pretty bad at sorting it out.  The Hygro Pinnatifida melted back pretty hard but I think it will bounce back.  Moss is ok.  Hairgrass seems ok.  Anubias is kind of ambivilant with everything, but I will be glueing it back to the hardscape now that I have the layout and the algae scraped.

The bacopa.... 95% of it is completely trashed now.  There might be one stem that has some life left in it, but that plant did not handle treatment well at all.  All leaves, stems, etc. are completely melted and turning into nothing.  The "new growth" at the top of one stem might make it, but I don't have my hopes up.  I will keep my eye out on everything over the next couple of days. 

[Guppysnail]

On 8/22/2022 at 12:25 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Cleaned the tank today and scrubbed the living crap out of the algae on the wood.  the S. Repens seems to be doing well and I am seeing that now.  The tissue culture I got has some new plants or I was just pretty bad at sorting it out.  The Hygro Pinnatifida melted back pretty hard but I think it will bounce back.  Moss is ok.  Hairgrass seems ok.  Anubias is kind of ambivilant with everything, but I will be glueing it back to the hardscape now that I have the layout and the algae scraped.

The bacopa.... 95% of it is completely trashed now.  There might be one stem that has some life left in it, but that plant did not handle treatment well at all.  All leaves, stems, etc. are completely melted and turning into nothing.  The "new growth" at the top of one stem might make it, but I don't have my hopes up.  I will keep my eye out on everything over the next couple of days. 

I’m glad things are progressing for you. Bacopa hates me and dies if I look at it incorrectly so I wish you luck with that one. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/22/2022 at 4:06 AM, Guppysnail said:

I’m glad things are progressing for you. Bacopa hates me and dies if I look at it incorrectly so I wish you luck with that one. 

I had a few plants, various types, where the roots just turned dark and basically were dead.  What I am seeing is that RR likes to "highlight" dead plant material.  It breaks it down.  I have one stem of the bacopa today that has ~1-2 roots on one end attached to basically mush but it's still alive.  On the other end is the only leaves that are alive on all the stalks on all the stems of bacopa.  It is the obi wan of my bacopa now. 😂

It popped out of the substrate when I was re-attaching the diffuser and I went to replant and had to do a double take on which end had roots vs. stalk mush.  We'll see!  Fingers crossed.

[Guppysnail]

On 8/22/2022 at 3:03 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

highlight" dead plant material

Yes. This is the “ph pruning” spoken of in the article. It keeps dead tissue from hanging about long enough to grow new algae.