Baby puffers in the tank.... mind blown ...what ?

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

On 12/6/2021 at 2:56 PM, Vinm said:

Great thread. My hairy puffers just laid eggs. How long before your eggs hatched? 

That is so awesome. I need your skills with them. The palustris took probably a week or so to hatch I would guess but I haven't yet got that down to a science yet. There is some delay in fertilization from laying which i would guess is the case with the hairy as well.

I leave the eggs with the male/ adults for a while base it off of the color of the egg before trying to grab some with the airline egg siphon trick. Posted that and a few notes in your thread as well. 

Congrats

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

Day 50 ....mission impossible success

12 baby Pao cf. palustris same shot. About time to break up the males certainly a few, likely males, with level 11 anger on the spinal tap amplifier

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

Day 52 - Eating a ton and growing fast.

We did a bit of a food graduation today.

All 12 fry are now eating cherry shrimp culls to go with snails, whiteworms, blackworms, and a few scuds when found. I have also started a nightcrawler earthworm culture, and a dwarf crayfish culture to hopefully raise for sharing and for puffer food.

I cut the "wild america" portion of the GIF. I felt I needed to get a little variety in their diet and some shelled food for a little bonus nutrition.  This is the first time this puffer has encountered a shrimp. The arch, circle, look and evaluate, decide a safer approach, and feed from the safer end seems to be instinctual within the puffer brain. None have been pinched before so they would not have learned to approach from that end through personal experience or observation. Pretty neat to see and share a puffer fry using a hunting technique for the first time on a new food source they haven't encountered before.

 

 

 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

Day 54 good comparison of fry starting to get adult coloration. Could change but they do seem to be starting to show males and females in the group. We still have that eye spot which is fascinating to me. I am curious when it goes away. 

Male ( almost certainly)

Darker spot pattern below that belly line. same as adult males

 

Female(almost certainly)

Lighter olive up top and light pattern below almost no coloration to it

[eatyourpeas]

Those kids are so adorable! You are such an inspiration! 😍

[Crabby]

Couldn’t help but smile while looking at these last few posts. It’s been so wonderful to watch them grow through your thread. There’s so much visible intelligence in these young fish, it’s incredible. 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

.......And repeat:

Adult male displaying for female in his cave. The inflation and color reversal is pretty awesome to see. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by mountaintoppufferkeeper

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

 Day 60... "technically" Two months old 🤯

First day of smaller version of adult puffer food : young nightcrawlers. Will skip sharing that video but here are some of the puffers from today. 

5 of 12 of the puffer pack

 

Male. The darker pattern above, belly pattern, and semi regular "chippy" attitude  make me almost certain this is one of a few males from this batch.

nightcrawlers cultured by feeding whole wheat bread with yogurt and nutritional yeast, zucchini, greens, etc. The worms have become a staple of the adults of my adult puffers now. 

 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

We are nearly 3 months now with 12 Pao cf palustris juveniles +/-  2" long  and cohabitating in a 20 gallon they have been growing out in. Mostly happy in there together but we occasionally have fin nips or small scars from group feedings and brief puffer arguments that are almost certainly between males. They have learned how to control their pointy ends a bit now which is helpful. 

If i did not have well established cultures of earthworms, whiteworms, ramshorns snails, cherry shrimp,  daphnia polycultured with tubifex worms, blackworms, live baby brine, vinegar eels, and soon dwarf crayfish (egged up female below)

it would be hard to raise a large spawn off of frozen or prepared foods they eat frequently and a large amount per feeding.

Today the "food bill" for the 12 growing puffers was

forty  8" nightcrawlers

1/4 cup of live daphina.

They eat more often and way more food that my adults do.

I will hopefully get another puffer species to work on along with successful Pao cf palustris project, and the not yet successful Pao baileyi "hairy puffer" project started in 2018/2019. If my hairy puffer adults ever breed for me like @Vinm has had with hairy puffers, I will be thankful for that having that personal learning experience. 

 

[Patrick_G]

Are you done with the palustris for now. I saw your comment in the stream chat. Just curious 🙂

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

@Patrick_G No sir they will be around in larger numbers up here. The Pao cf. palustris will have a significant portion of the fish room forever and I expect I will try and have fry and adults in a few tanks forever.

I am even working on a DIY acrylic in tank display /divider to limit the damage when feeding larger foods and improve my process on selective breeding in the future. If I ever move any out of the fishroom that will probably be useful to keep those who move on with the best fins and blemish free bodies before they go. 

At this point I am just planning on what would be a fun next challenge to tackle down the road a bit. The redeyes are on the short list for me.

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by mountaintoppufferkeeper

[BETTA999]

i always loved puffers but i have betta babys to care rigth now but maybe in the future i will have one

 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@mountaintoppufferkeeperwhen Dan’s Fish Dan was talking about bringing in red eyes I just kept thinking about how to pull it off! Glad to see all the success.

Outside of the pea puffers which species do you recommend for people with a fair amount of experience fish keeping? I am not afraid of brackish or aggression nor of live foods.

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

On 1/20/2022 at 1:36 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

@mountaintoppufferkeeperwhen Dan’s Fish Dan was talking about bringing in red eyes I just kept thinking about how to pull it off! Glad to see all the success.

Outside of the pea puffers which species do you recommend for people with a fair amount of experience fish keeping? I am not afraid of brackish or aggression nor of live foods.

 

@Beardedbillygoat1975 I don’t really feel qualified to recommend one species over another to anyone else even highly skilled keepers like yourself but my short answer is I recommend all of them. I have yet to meet one I didn't enjoy keeping.

I have kept a few puffer species and made some observations that might help narrow it down.  I think any puffer can easily decide to kill everything in its tank at any moment so for me the tank with a puffer or puffers is theirs and the rest is allowed in it at their discretion.

I have some puffer knowledge that might help decide though. I personally pick the species that I think I will enjoy watching and caring for. If I am being totally honest, I give extra consideration to anything that is believed to be near impossible to breed in the aquarium or thought to be impossible to keep as a group. More of a personal challenge of sorts to break the code.

My favorites are Pao puffers but that mostly started because I rejected the common belief that the ambush puffers couldn't be kept in a colony and were solitary sedentary bumps on logs in all circumstances. I was fully prepared with plans B and C if I was wrong in my view. My goal is to bring 6 individuals to start a colony of all the species I keep including puffer species (when available /possible) and let it all sort itself out over time down to a pair etc. I really enjoy my hairy puffer group (3 bought in 18-19 together as a group of 3) and of course the Mekong river puffers (Male Female, Female trio down from 6 purchased adults plus regular spawns and F1 adolescents) are great. 

 

 

The puffers I am keeping:

 

1.)     Pao baileyi          Hairy Puffer               50gallon Aquasky light at 30%  77F 7.0 300 TDS planted + caves

                             

a.       My favorite puffer I haven’t yet bred

 

b.       3 puffer colony (“likely” : Male, Male, Female)

I have kept four total over the years. One individually and my current 3 as a colony. The guess on the male vs female breakdown is just based on behaviors and who controls what cave. No successful spawning yet so not 100% sure. My personal experience is that most are way more active and personable than people think and even more so if kept with other hairy puffers. I base that off of removing one of the three to their own tank and it becoming less active and responsive to me until moved back with the pair. When they are hungry they will come out and swim the glass, make eye contact with me, look at the top, look back at me, then repeat until I give them worms or similar food. Normally the smallest (likely male) is the most active and always following me around the room by swimming midwater and being generally curious what I am up to. The other two are generally happy to keep an eye on me and watch from a perch of some kind vs actively swim.  

 

2.)     Pao cf. palustrus              Mekong River Puffer        75gallon  77F 7.0 300 TDS planted + caves                 

 

a.       My favorite puffer for obvious reasons

 

b.       3 puffer colony ( Male, Female, Female)

They are pretty “chippy” for lack of a better term. I do not have one of the twelve 3-month-old fry who doesn’t have a bit of superficial damage from feeding run ins or disagreeing with a sibling. I believe that the males as many more aggressive than the females even as fry. The 75 gallon well planted houses the male and his two females because of the line-of-sight breaks, heavy plants, and good food. They do not fight exactly but the male runs half of the tank and only allows the females over there to feed with him or when one is spawning in his cave with him. The all will come out and swim the glass when they see you, they also like to watch the backyard occasionally which they can see from the end of the tank.

 

The puffers I previously kept:

3.)     Tetraodon lineatus                         Nile/Fahaka Puffer

I have kept one of these to 8” or so a very quick to take off and run into things puffer. I have not seen that in the Pao species I have kept.

 

4.)     Carinotetraodon travancoricus                Pea Puffer

Kept as a group of 6 they were pretty aggressive even more than the Mekong Puffers are. They were always fighting each other in my tank despite the space 40 breeder, heavy plants and food available ramshorns, bloodworms, cherry shrimp, repashy.

 

5.)     Tetraodon schoutedeni                       Spotted Congo Puffer

I have only kept one but this was a very active and engaging puffer in my setups. Did not get flightly and run into things as often as the  fahaka did either.  

 

The currently known puffers I will try keep eventually:

6.)     Tetraodon miurus                          Potato Puffer / Congo Puffer

This is next on my list to get a colony growing up and possibly breeding. This will be my first true Congo River system species to try and grow as a colony. This will be a big learning experience either way once started.

 

7.)     Carinotetraodon salivator                   Striped Redeye Puffer

I have been really considering the redeyes since October or so myself. I have discovered that redeyes are most often imported in Fall and was told that is due to seasonal fluctuations which allow for them to be caught in the wild during our Fall season. When fall comes around and if I can get 6 these will be added. The redeyes are arguably rare due to the locations and seasonal availability. I think it would be fun to try and get them going as captive raised. This look is my favorite of the redeye species currently known. 

 

8.)     Carinotetraodon borneensis                   Borneo Redeye Puffer 

My 1b redeye puffer I would like to work on both if they ever show up in retail

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@mountaintoppufferkeeperthank you for taking the time to give such a thoughtful analysis. I really appreciate it. I really love how your experience with larger breeding type setups has led to some behaviors that are really counter to the info you see online. Nothing like real world experience. 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

Went ahead and pulled about 50% of the spawn today. The male has actually adjusted his strategy a bit he now will sit on the eggs and block the airline from sucking them up instead of actively attacking it. This is the 4 month old pao cf palustris and this spawn with fry actively hatching in the coop specimen container the background. 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

25Jan22 Male has left the cave the remaining eggs hatched and swam off in the 75 gallon. My buddy is now expecting his post spawning feast. A great day to be a mountain top puffer for him and the two females. 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

Day 3 . Fun to see those tiny puffer fry zipping around from overhead. Everything in the photo not duckweed is a Pao cf. palustris fry. I am looking to get 30-40 to 30 days in a 20 gallon then to 3 months in a 50 gallon grow out if we get them eating this week. This batch should be fun to improve witb even if that is learning what to not try next batch.

[Dancing Matt]

On 1/20/2022 at 11:03 AM, mountaintoppufferkeeper said:

I am even working on a DIY acrylic in tank display /divider

Did this work? I was thinking about building an in-tank-sump/filter compartment. What type and size acrylic did you use? Do you know if acrylic will stick to glass with silicone?

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

On 1/28/2022 at 4:09 PM, Dancing Matt said:

Did this work? I was thinking about building an in-tank-sump/filter compartment. What type and size acrylic did you use? Do you know if acrylic will stick to glass with silicone?

It works decsnt enough for me. I used 1/4" thick cast cell acrylic and weldon 4 acrylic glue to bond all seams into one piece. I was trying for the thinnest possible that still holds shape and is in theory tough enough for the puffers, not too expensive or hard to find, and is still fairly easy to cut with a scoring tool. 

I have not tried acrylic for an in tank sump/filter but I would guess the silicone would be more to hold it in place vs bond to it. I think a sump set up like that could possibly be done with twin wall polycarbonate and lighting diffuser "egg crate" if all glass were not an option. 

I havent tried either no idea if they work personally.

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

Happy 4th all

Day 253 / 9 months  ......

Fishroom surprise today F1 fry celebrating July 4th in a cave. These are from the October 23 2021 batch and are only half the adult size. But the ability to document the whole process will be great to further learn from this species. "Puffer cam" has been relocated to record the cave activities

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by mountaintoppufferkeeper

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 7/12/2021 at 5:19 PM, mountaintoppufferkeeper said:

just turkey baster'd them over to the breeder boxes

I really like your breeder box. Where did you get it?

[sweetpoison]

On 1/27/2022 at 5:09 PM, mountaintoppufferkeeper said:

Day 3 . Fun to see those tiny puffer fry zipping around from overhead. Everything in the photo not duckweed is a Pao cf. palustris fry. I am looking to get 30-40 to 30 days in a 20 gallon then to 3 months in a 50 gallon grow out if we get them eating this week. This batch should be fun to improve witb even if that is learning what to not try next batch.

Those are incredible views excellent shot!👏♥️📸

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

On 7/4/2022 at 9:43 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

I really like your breeder box. Where did you get it?

great suction cups on those also. It is this one https://www.aquariumcoop.com/products/ziss-premium-breeder-box