New Discus Journal

[Jeff]

Discus are my bucket list fish as well. I have an empty 90g for them when the time comes in my basement. It's all carpet, and at some point, will have to rip that all up, and put down something that water won't absorb into the carpet. 

It's good to see another person like yourself have success. That gives me hope...lol.

Seeing George Farmer and MD Fish Tanks bow out of Discus recently really put a scare into me. But, I have enjoyed reading your thread.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Jeff

[Brandon p]

On 7/19/2022 at 10:34 PM, Jeff said:

Discus are my bucket list fish as well. I have an empty 90g for them when the time comes in my basement. It's all carpet, and at some point, will have to rip that all up, and put down something that water won't absorb into the carpet. 

It's good to see another person like yourself have success. That gives me hope...lol.

Seeing George Farmer and MD Fish Tanks bow out of Discus recently really put a scare into me. But, I have enjoyed reading your thread.

You can do them. I think that they are getting easier to raise better. I think you will love a discus tank. I have one piece of advice. Don’t be scared or over worried. It makes it less fun. 
I hope that dream comes true sooner than later.

[jwcarlson]

I feel both sides of the discussion.  In a very real sense I just have a glass box that I put food in and keep the water very clean in.  That is not remotely difficult.  But I am quite good at monkey-see-monkey-do.  That said, I have still lost 20% of my discus in five months.  One to something I did and one to what I think was something that could have been treated had I dealt with what I think was hexamita sooner.  The treatment (12 days of metro) turned around the one "runt", but the other didn't get so lucky. 

They do seem pretty finicky and of course there's a lot of time and effort and some money tied up in them.   But they sure are pretty.  I keep thinking about getting a school of rummynose to out in with them, but an "old timer" says he has abandoned rummys for lemon tetras for hardiness.  But man I sure love rummynose.  Just need to set up the QT and probably give them six weeks in it for my own sanity.  I am still quite concerned that I am going to collapse them! 

I do appreciate the kind comments, though I want to make sure everyone understands a caveman could do what I am doing as long as you're willing to change a bunch of water daily.  Though I do have a pretty nice setup that gets my water changes done with maybe 15 minutes of hand time every night. 

[Brandon p]

On 7/20/2022 at 12:15 AM, jwcarlson said:

I feel both sides of the discussion.  In a very real sense I just have a glass box that I put food in and keep the water very clean in.  That is not remotely difficult.  But I am quite good at monkey-see-monkey-do.  That said, I have still lost 20% of my discus in five months.  One to something I did and one to what I think was something that could have been treated had I dealt with what I think was hexamita sooner.  The treatment (12 days of metro) turned around the one "runt", but the other didn't get so lucky. 

They do seem pretty finicky and of course there's a lot of time and effort and some money tied up in them.   But they sure are pretty.  I keep thinking about getting a school of rummynose to out in with them, but an "old timer" says he has abandoned rummys for lemon tetras for hardiness.  But man I sure love rummynose.  Just need to set up the QT and probably give them six weeks in it for my own sanity.  I am still quite concerned that I am going to collapse them! 

I do appreciate the kind comments, though I want to make sure everyone understands a caveman could do what I am doing as long as you're willing to change a bunch of water daily.  Though I do have a pretty nice setup that gets my water changes done with maybe 15 minutes of hand time every night. 

I guess I missed something. I’m sorry you have lost som fish. Your tanks are alway amazing so a caveman can’t do that. They are not angelfish you can’t just toss them in. I do feel that  they easier than 20 years ago. Please don’t get discouraged. I do understanding the Frustration. I lost some of my beauties in march when I had a heart attack and was in the hospital. I love to see you post photos. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Brandon p

[jwcarlson]

@Brandon pI lost one after dumping in Fritz Zyme 7 early on.  No clue what happened, but they were in very rough shape.

Then the other one was just a non-eater from the get-go and finally died after about four months.  If I would have been more observant (it would eat, but would always spit it out in the beginning), I probably would have done some treatment sooner.  But that's learning for ya!

I never kept them 20 years ago, so I can't agree or disagree, but these Stendkers have been around for awhile and they seem to do just fine in my extremely hard and high pH water.  The perception certainly was that they were hard to keep, which is what turned me away from them at the time.  Sometimes I think that as information becomes more readily available things appear "easier".  For example, I'm pretty comfortable tearing pretty deeply into our vehicles because I can go find step-by-step guides or detailed videos on YouTube about my exact make/model in most cases.  That's a pretty new phenomenon.  ~20 years ago there were some forums and websites, but it was very much lacking consensus as I recall.  The internet in general is still very much like that.  However, with so many more people involved and trusted/knowledgeable people as fixtures, it's easier to root out bad information if you're willing to do the work to find out.  For example if I hear Cory say something that agrees with advice I heard on a Facebook group which lead me to do some digging and find an old thread on on a fish forum from 2008... I can be pretty darn sure that's good advice.  That's one of the reasons I think being (tactfully) critical on forums/social media/whatever is important.  I've learned a lot over the years by someone being "mean" to me on an online forum which lead me to do more research and learning.  Which led me to the decision to NOT get discus 20 years ago, but also led me to be a much better fish-keeper at the time.

Maybe I'm just pretty good at vetting information for the most part.  I also keep about 40 honey bee colonies and rear all my own queen bees.  I'm not sure there's a hobby more rife with disinformation and charlatans than beekeeping. 

[Brandon p]

On 7/20/2022 at 9:29 AM, jwcarlson said:

@Brandon pI lost one after dumping in Fritz Zyme 7 early on.  No clue what happened, but they were in very rough shape.

Then the other one was just a non-eater from the get-go and finally died after about four months.  If I would have been more observant (it would eat, but would always spit it out in the beginning), I probably would have done some treatment sooner.  But that's learning for ya!

I never kept them 20 years ago, so I can't agree or disagree, but these Stendkers have been around for awhile and they seem to do just fine in my extremely hard and high pH water.  The perception certainly was that they were hard to keep, which is what turned me away from them at the time.  Sometimes I think that as information becomes more readily available things appear "easier".  For example, I'm pretty comfortable tearing pretty deeply into our vehicles because I can go find step-by-step guides or detailed videos on YouTube about my exact make/model in most cases.  That's a pretty new phenomenon.  ~20 years ago there were some forums and websites, but it was very much lacking consensus as I recall.  The internet in general is still very much like that.  However, with so many more people involved and trusted/knowledgeable people as fixtures, it's easier to root out bad information if you're willing to do the work to find out.  For example if I hear Cory say something that agrees with advice I heard on a Facebook group which lead me to do some digging and find an old thread on on a fish forum from 2008... I can be pretty darn sure that's good advice.  That's one of the reasons I think being (tactfully) critical on forums/social media/whatever is important.  I've learned a lot over the years by someone being "mean" to me on an online forum which lead me to do more research and learning.  Which led me to the decision to NOT get discus 20 years ago, but also led me to be a much better fish-keeper at the time.

Maybe I'm just pretty good at vetting information for the most part.  I also keep about 40 honey bee colonies and rear all my own queen bees.  I'm not sure there's a hobby more rife with disinformation and charlatans than beekeeping. 

Yes I think we my have discussed beekeep before. I did it  form 10-22 it was the family business’s. This be in the family tree since my Mimi’s family came from what is now Germany in the 1870’s. It a big family tree and most of it has done it at some points. It was a business we sold semi-trucks of 55gal drums. Your right there! I think the internet is a blessing and a curse. I and pretty sure what I do with my fish I could not teach or say this has worked for me. You are on the opposite side of things with discus. I try to do as little as possible. I don’t mean just not do things. But I do way less water changes and all that. I like clean water that does have things in it but I prefer that tea color. I try the water changes daily and I had troubles. I have some Heath issues so there have been time I have been tan the hospital for long periods (with help from family and friend) I am believing less is more for somethings. But that makes it sound easy. There water testing and all still. The more I tried to change this the more problems I had. The ph has had a difference for me. With the Florida raised discus and watch that has helped. A neighbor a few blocks away that has city water and he has to eat different thing to keep his alive. I really think that there are guidelines that can be varied for as you gain experience. I don think that most first time discus keeper are good at it. I use angels because I like them , but lots of first time angelfish keepers can have those fish and grow huge and have fry. A money my be able to do that. Discus is more experienced based it think. Now if you can find a good mentor it helps. 

[jwcarlson]

Not the best pics and not a monthly update.   But they looked nice after the water change.   Some recent additions of some sort of hygrophalia (spelling?).   Person who sent it said giant, but it doesn't look like google pics of that variety.  Also six lemon tetras who have survived thus far.   I want to get at least ten more of the tetras, but store only had six. 

 

[jwcarlson]

I'm trying not to pic favorites, but...

[jwcarlson]

About the 225th water change for these so far. 🙂

 

 

[anewbie]

On 4/5/2022 at 8:31 PM, jwcarlson said:

Well, I think I've got it at this point.  Been three days like this.  And that strip has been sitting for at least 10 minutes.  Been wiping down small sections so as not to shock anything and hopefully boost colonies in the sponges. 

They ate two beef heart cubes this morning, two more after work, plus 2.5 freeze dried black worms.  AND one of them was pecking my hand for the first 1/3rd of the water change.  How do you eat so much, discus? 

Forgot to add this pic.  The one with the head injury is still doing well, it looks better already, actually. 

I realize this is an old post but i want to post a few things i have learned about discus the past year via various readings. First beef heart and meat in general is not good for discus despite the myth. They actually eat a fair amount of plant matter in the wild; the problem with beef (and beef heart) is they can't really digest it very well et all. There is a video somewhere by a well known breeder that talks about various diet for discus and what he feed them and there are some research paper that go into analysis of wild discus stomach content as well as what kind of foods are healthy for discus in general (i've glanced at them but never bothered to save the references but you can seek them out).

[jwcarlson]

Do you happen to know who the breeder was? 

 

I think beefheart is widely used because it's cheap and high protein.  Clearly they aren't eating meat in the wild, but they don't eat a lot of things in the wild that are in most fish foods.  I would love to read the research, I'll do some digging. 

[Zzsharks]

I breed my discus and this came out.Ten I breed my new strain I made when they were adults and now I sell them to my of 50 bucks a fish!

 

[jwcarlson]

The blue diamond had quit eating about the time of my last post.  After three rounds of levamisole, he is back to lightly eating and getting a bit more aggressive in appetite each day.  Not sure if it was just "bad luck" or if the tetras I added over the summer brought worms in.  In any event, he seems to be recovering.

As the fish are farther into maturity the water changes will probably eventually lessen, but I am still committed to nightly 90% water changes and February will be a year of that (just missing a handful for vacation or weekends away).  That said, the tank has been setup as a growout from the beginning.  Bare bottom, very limited decoration.  The plants I tried before were absolutely thrashed by the discus and perhaps didn't have enough to eat from the water.  The guy I got the plants from has beautiful stands of them in his discus tank and he doesn't use root tabs or anything.  I have some of them growing in a different tank and am considering bringing another cluster up to see if it survives.  If I could get a good stand of them growing, I could hide some of these filters.  

Also thinking more about rearranging and maybe eliminating one of the tall sponge filters.  At the least, I think they're all going to get shuffled all the way to the right to limit the ugly areas.  Overall wishing I had a bigger tank with a sump where I could hide the heaters and eliminate the filters taking up space.  Maybe someday.  🙂

Added some driftwood and anubias last night.  The discus are quite alarmed, but none of them died of fright overnight and they had ventured about 4" farther left of where they were in this picture as of this morning.  

[jwcarlson]

They have come to grips with the wood. 

Tidal 110 comes today and I begin transitioning the tank to something more "display tank worthy" eliminating the sponge filters over time and freeing up some space in the tank. 

 

[Guppysnail]

It’s funny how our aquatic kids remind us it’s THEIR HOME not our artwork. Every time I redo a tank or make changes like that my kids let me know. I think to myself after how would I feel if somebody just came in and rearranged my whole house and redecorated?  🤣

[jwcarlson]

On 12/9/2022 at 6:59 AM, Guppysnail said:

It’s funny how our aquatic kids remind us it’s THEIR HOME not our artwork. Every time I redo a tank or make changes like that my kids let me know. I think to myself after how would I feel if somebody just came in and rearranged my whole house and redecorated?  🤣

Absolutely, I think most fish handle all of that stuff pretty well.  The discus are certainly more sensitive.  But yeah, someone rips the roof of my house and shoves a 10 foot wide vacuum in sucking everything up and then just walks away, I'm going to be a little confused and moody for a bit. 😆

[Odd Duck]

On 12/9/2022 at 6:46 AM, jwcarlson said:

They have come to grips with the wood. 

Tidal 110 comes today and I begin transitioning the tank to something more "display tank worthy" eliminating the sponge filters over time and freeing up some space in the tank. 

 

You could always stack those sponge filters and take up less floor space.  Lots easier to hide when it’s only half the square inches of floor space.

[jwcarlson]

On 12/9/2022 at 7:57 PM, Odd Duck said:

You could always stack those sponge filters and take up less floor space.  Lots easier to hide when it’s only half the square inches of floor space.

I have three double stacked large AC sponge filters, I don't think I can stack them anymore! 😄

And one stuck to the back that's a finer filter.  It's too much with wood.  This way I should be able to add some more wood and the planter back in with some other plants.

[Odd Duck]

On 12/9/2022 at 8:31 PM, jwcarlson said:

I have three double stacked large AC sponge filters, I don't think I can stack them anymore! 😄

And one stuck to the back that's a finer filter.  It's too much with wood.  This way I should be able to add some more wood and the planter back in with some other plants.

Hah!  I didn’t realize they were double stacked already and didn’t even notice the one behind your wood piece.  😂 🤦🏻‍♀️ 🤷🏻‍♀️ 

[jwcarlson]

Here's the crew during refill from tonight's water change.  I measured three of them and the two bigger ones are 5.5" and one that was WAY WAY behind is right at 5" now.  The (darker) blue one is coming out of a worm issue and has started eating.  Hoping that he takes off the way the other runt did now that he's eating pretty well.

In a few days it will be ten months since I received them at 2.5".

Tidal 110 has replaced one sponge filter and eventually at least one more will go, possibly two more.  I'm holding off as my wife recently gave me the go ahead to buy used tanks that an old friend from high school wants to sell.  He's selling me a 125, 90, 55, and 40 bow - all with stands and filters for $350.  Trickster knows how to get me to bite.  Not sure what the future of the discus is, but they may end up in the 125 with significantly more dither fish.

Anyway, they were being pretty photogenic tonight.

 

 

 

 

[Odd Duck]

Absolutely gorgeous!

[jwcarlson]

Giving the potted plants another go.  Hopefully these discholes don't destroy them again. 😂

 

[jwcarlson]

Tomorrow is 11 months since I got these fish.

Well, you can see how the hygro and val or... vesuvius? did not fair well.  This time it wasn't the discus, but the reverse respiration.  All the other plants I have done it to have done fine, but this entire batch was basically destroyed.  

Sponge filters have migrated to a new apisto tank, might journal that at some point?  Not sure.

I feel like I should just punt on trying to put plants other than anubias in here.  I might take some trimmings of hygro pinnatifida which is doing pretty good in the community tank.  I don't love this driftwood either, so next time I make it to the LFS, I might buy something different.

 

Edited January 15, 2023 by jwcarlson

[jwcarlson]

Marking one year of discus (tomorrow). It's been an interesting journey and I have learned a lot. And changed a lot of water. But I think they're turning out well.  

In about a week it will be 365 water changes, which is the true year with discus, in my opinion. 😄

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

@jwcarlson can’t they have substrate?