New Discus Journal

[jwcarlson]

I'm recently back into the hobby after about a 15 year hiatus.  I'm 37 now, as a kid I had about 7-8 tanks and was always too scared to keep discus because our water is so hard here.  Apparently that's not necessarily the case... in any event, I'm giving them a shot.  I got 10 from Discus Hans (Stendker) in 2.5" size to give them a whirl.  They're 'jumpy', but they didn't even pout for a second after acclimating (which was 5 minutes following the Stendker directions).  Kinda wild, but so far so good.

 

I am scared I'm going to wake up to all of them dead, but... fingers crossed.  Only half decent photo of them on night one.  I am floored by how beautiful they already are, I honestly expected them to be kind of indistinguishable for a month or more, but there are 8 varieties there and I can easily tell them apart.

 

Anyway, I'll maybe document it here... sometimes I'm not so great about.  Going with just some play sand and sponge filters at least until I get the hang of it.  Aiming for big daily water changes.  Tank is an absolute train wreck to look at.  That power head needs to go and because I only keep the house at 62ish degrees, so I need more than 300W to get it to 85 reliably.  Very much considering building a 'matten filter' so just one side is ugly with all the stuff behind it.  Currently undecided.  This is taken from the side, from the front, the background is black window film (for now).  It might end up blue and the sand might be gone depending how much I hate it.

 

Thanks for looking! 🙂  Sorry it's not a beautiful aquascape.  🤣

From top-to-bottom, left-to-right: dark angel, two blue diamonds, white leopard, two checkerboards, flachen (solid turquoise), brilliant turquoise, marlboro red (or red melon moreso now because of smoking), and pigeon blood. 

Edited February 16, 2022 by jwcarlson

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

They are GORGEOUS!!! Lucky you!! I'll live vicariously, you can do it!!!! 😍

[Andy's Fish Den]

They look good, I have heard good things about Hans and his discus. 

[jwcarlson]

On 2/16/2022 at 6:28 AM, Andy's Fish Den said:

They look good, I have heard good things about Hans and his discus. 

Me too, which is ultimately what lead to the decision.  Also considered Jack Wattley (Gabe Pasada), but saw enough recent displeasure that I decided not to go that route.  

He called me to make sure everything was OK and that I thought they looked good.  I haven't had tons of interaction with him, but he answered a question I had about a month ago before I ordered anything, called after the fish arrived (I missed it because I had to run to work), and then we texted a bit last night.  Can't beat that.  Meanwhile I bought some discus worming meds from another site and it's been almost two weeks and I have no idea if it's even shipped yet, suspecting not as I get an email every other day or so trying to get me to "add to my order".  

 

Granted two totally different products and whatnot, but the disparity is interesting.

[jwcarlson]

I'm sure enjoying watching these things, but they're not particularly fond of me just yet.  They're eating as long as I am far enough from the tank.  Putting Vibra Bites, Hikari Discus Bio Gold, and some Xtreme Krill flake.  They eat it (slowly) off the bottom.  

 

Finally got a bit of a feeding frenzy by sticking a cube of freeze dried Australian black worms and waiting like an hour for one to get brave enough to take a nibble. 🤣

So this is fully zoomed in, afraid to move and scare them for another half hour.  😂

But I can see filling bellies from here ten feet away and that makes me happy. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by jwcarlson

[jwcarlson]

We've had a breakthrough! 😆

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Is this their permanent tank? You think some sort of cover would help them be less shy or is this just a Discus thing ya think? Or do they eventually know you and stop being so skeered?

[jwcarlson]

I've never had discus before, but I think once they associate food with the shadow moving around they will be OK.  

Other cichlids I have had will beg every time you get near.  These have only been here for a few days and they're definitely making progress.  Letting me sit right here watching them now. 

And it's a chaotic house, honestly.  Two adults, three kids (9, almost 7, almost 4) and two Australian Shepherds.  They'll eventually get used to the activity and noise.  This eating has actually loosened them up significantly, they seem more confident. 

Here's 93 pounds (38 and 55) of the floor vibrating crew:

The red merle (Finn almost 2) is a mini, but he is a big mini, boarderline standard.  The black bi (Shade a bit over a year and not quite done growing) is a standard. 

That said... I was getting close to putting driftwood in earlier with same reasoning as you.  Thought I could expedite it a bit.  Permanent tank at the moment, not sure what the future holds.  My wife actually just said "I want one of those green ones" (flachen).  We have one of those in the mix, but maybe I can trick her.  🤣

Edited February 19, 2022 by jwcarlson

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

😄 Oh my gosh yes chaotic! I love it. What beautiful doggies!!!!! But yeah, Borders are notoriously energetic and kids well....yeah, you have your handsful already! They better get used to the environment that's for sure! I feel like of the Cichlids they are definitely different personality-wise. @Fish Folk's come out for him, so I'm sure yours will too!

[Fish Folk]

On 2/18/2022 at 8:01 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

@Fish Folk's come out for him, so I'm sure yours will too!

Dim the lighting if you can.

My new trio bought last week, feeding well tonight…

Big ones are fine as long as I don’t make any sudden movements…

I make them try everything. I refuse to get locked into their dietary plans for my wallet. Eventually they eat everything. 

[jwcarlson]

They've eaten everything I have put in so far, just not as voraciously as the FDBlackW.  I'm going to make a 'patty' of flake in the AM and stick it to the wall.  I'm guessing they'll go for that as well. 

I think it's time more than anything.  They come right up to the gravel vac during water changes so they're not THAT shy.  

[Guppysnail]

On 2/18/2022 at 8:38 PM, jwcarlson said:

I'm going to make a 'patty' of flake

How do you do this. I would love to do this please 😁

[jwcarlson]

On 2/18/2022 at 8:01 PM, Guppysnail said:

How do you do this. I would love to do this please 😁

How I'm planning on doing it: taking some flake and mixing in either tank water or (more likely) some garlic guard.  Make a bit of a dry mush out of it and press it together into a ball, then stick it to the glass.  I think it will work.  I've done it with the Co-Op fry food, I think the flake should work as well.

[Guppysnail]

On 2/18/2022 at 9:14 PM, jwcarlson said:

How I'm planning on doing it: taking some flake and mixing in either tank water or (more likely) some garlic guard.  Make a bit of a dry mush out of it and press it together into a ball, then stick it to the glass.  I think it will work.  I've done it with the Co-Op fry food, I think the flake should work as well.

Do you dry it out first or press the mush ball to the tank?

Edited February 19, 2022 by Guppysnail

[jwcarlson]

I've not purposefully dried it, but extra goes in the fridge.  The key is to not make it too "mush" to begin with.

It was something I was doing when feeding medicated feed to make sure that some of the smaller fish got it.  Basically make a little ball and target feed them.

I'm sure it's not a unique idea.  It was also done by the Xtreme foods guy during a Co-Op tour.  Go to 32:10 if the link doesn't take you to the correct time.  And also about 17:15.

 

Edited February 19, 2022 by jwcarlson

[Torrey]

On 2/15/2022 at 8:17 PM, jwcarlson said:

I'm recently back into the hobby after about a 15 year hiatus.  I'm 37 now, as a kid I had about 7-8 tanks and was always too scared to keep discus because our water is so hard here.  Apparently that's not necessarily the case... in any event, I'm giving them a shot.  I got 10 from Discus Hans (Stendker) in 2.5" size to give them a whirl.  They're 'jumpy', but they didn't even pout for a second after acclimating (which was 5 minutes following the Stendker directions).  Kinda wild, but so far so good.

 

I am scared I'm going to wake up to all of them dead, but... fingers crossed.  Only half decent photo of them on night one.  I am floored by how beautiful they already are, I honestly expected them to be kind of indistinguishable for a month or more, but there are 8 varieties there and I can easily tell them apart.

 

Anyway, I'll maybe document it here... sometimes I'm not so great about.  Going with just some play sand and sponge filters at least until I get the hang of it.  Aiming for big daily water changes.  Tank is an absolute train wreck to look at.  That power head needs to go and because I only keep the house at 62ish degrees, so I need more than 300W to get it to 85 reliably.  Very much considering building a 'matten filter' so just one side is ugly with all the stuff behind it.  Currently undecided.  This is taken from the side, from the front, the background is black window film (for now).  It might end up blue and the sand might be gone depending how much I hate it.

 

Thanks for looking! 🙂  Sorry it's not a beautiful aquascape.  🤣

From top-to-bottom, left-to-right: dark angel, two blue diamonds, white leopard, two checkerboards, flachen (solid turquoise), brilliant turquoise, marlboro red (or red melon moreso now because of smoking), and pigeon blood. 

You **almost** make me miss my discus enough to want to move into a larger space so I can breed again. I'm just not willing to pack, lol.

You have some gorgeous fish in your tank, I will share that finding plants that do well at 85° F to 88° F is a royal pain, and also 100% worth it. The hard water isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to be, except for breeding. Yes, harder water makes pH higher, which increases the toxicity of ammonia and nitrites, and discus can be mess makers if you are feeding them correctly. 

Which is why I recommend good plants, to minimize ammonia and nitrites, as well as nitrates, building up. 

If you don't want to lose swimming space, this post has good alternatives 

Discus are smart fish, enjoy a mentally stimulating environment, and if you decide to go RO they make very attentive parents.

They simply require more space than my tiny apartment can offer. 

Congratulations, and welcome to the forum. Your discus are absolutely gorgeous. 

[jwcarlson]

@Torrey

I'm (currently) unconcerned with the tank appearance, though I have started a couple pothos cuttings off my plants.  But I might end up buying a bigger one.  Also considering some floating plants, but not sure if that would be a good idea or not.  Still noodling on that.  Seems like the roots might trap a lot of garbage.  Not sure if I like the look of bamboo.  Will admit to not having read your link, though, which I will do tomorrow. 

I'm a little nervous about screwing them up at the moment too.  Regardless of reassurances.  So I'm trying to keep it pretty bare so I can keep up with the maintenance more easily.  

In the process of removing the sand and feeling like I'm going to end up draining and painting the bottom something light.  I don't dislike the bare bottom look as much as I thought I would.

 

As far as future plans, that's an interesting question.  I have RO ability, but not installed.  Eight years ago I started keeping bees with a few colonies I bought.  I have a knack for it.  I've not bought any additional bees and have "organically" grown it into a small business and about 40 honey bee colonies.  I sell honey, hand reared queen bees, and nucleus (starter) colonies.  The hang up with bees is that it mostly needs to be light outside for me to be able to work bees.  Time away from home weighs on me greatly, I am very efficient at keeping bees these days...  but they still require roughly weekly visits (sometimes more often) and those visits can take 2-4 hours.  Not to get too far in the weeds here.  I could run a pretty good sized fish room and spend more time at home.  I could spend ~4-5 hours a night working fish if I wanted to.  Right now I'm not interested in breeding them  (and I know they've got lots of time and work to grow yet).  I might be totally worn out on them in six months.  😄

To shorten the story, I need to move my entire apiary because the land owner sold their house.  Moving bees is not fun and it's been weighing on me all winter.  I feel a pretty massive scale back coming on the bees and all of that could look really different in a year or two.  I have already jokingly told my wife that I could sell all my bees and just have a fish room in the basement.  She doesn't hate the idea and thought I was serious at first.  My heart also just isn't feeling the bees quite as much as it normally does as I'm approaching spring.  However, I am not sure how much of that is because I'm dreading the moving of them.

 

Back to this tank... I would like some vertical driftwood at some point, I think.  But I want to make sure I keep it easy to clean the food/waste out for water changes.  More than anything at this point it's a 37 year old that wanted to keep these fish when he was 18-20 and was too scared because he had hard water. 😄  Tank is overstocked (or will be with growth) and I'm kind of hedging my bets thinking I'll lose some.  Knowing that if they all make it I'll either have to deal with the overcrowding or give some away as they grow.  I'm OK with an ugly tank if it means healthy, well grown fish in 18 months.  Then maybe I do something more elaborate.  But sometime in between there maybe I toss a couple sticks in with anubias and java ferns glued to them.  

What a ramble here. 🙃

[Torrey]

On 2/18/2022 at 10:24 PM, jwcarlson said:

@Torrey

I'm (currently) unconcerned with the tank appearance, though I have started a couple pothos cuttings off my plants.  But I might end up buying a bigger one.  Also considering some floating plants, but not sure if that would be a good idea or not.  Still noodling on that.  Seems like the roots might trap a lot of garbage.  Not sure if I like the look of bamboo.  Will admit to not having read your link, though, which I will do tomorrow. 

I'm a little nervous about screwing them up at the moment too.  Regardless of reassurances.  So I'm trying to keep it pretty bare so I can keep up with the maintenance more easily.  

In the process of removing the sand and feeling like I'm going to end up draining and painting the bottom something light.  I don't dislike the bare bottom look as much as I thought I would.

 

As far as future plans, that's an interesting question.  I have RO ability, but not installed.  Eight years ago I started keeping bees with a few colonies I bought.  I have a knack for it.  I've not bought any additional bees and have "organically" grown it into a small business and about 40 honey bee colonies.  I sell honey, hand reared queen bees, and nucleus (starter) colonies.  The hang up with bees is that it mostly needs to be light outside for me to be able to work bees.  Time away from home weighs on me greatly, I am very efficient at keeping bees these days...  but they still require roughly weekly visits (sometimes more often) and those visits can take 2-4 hours.  Not to get too far in the weeds here.  I could run a pretty good sized fish room and spend more time at home.  I could spend ~4-5 hours a night working fish if I wanted to.  Right now I'm not interested in breeding them  (and I know they've got lots of time and work to grow yet).  I might be totally worn out on them in six months.  😄

To shorten the story, I need to move my entire apiary because the land owner sold their house.  Moving bees is not fun and it's been weighing on me all winter.  I feel a pretty massive scale back coming on the bees and all of that could look really different in a year or two.  I have already jokingly told my wife that I could sell all my bees and just have a fish room in the basement.  She doesn't hate the idea and thought I was serious at first.  My heart also just isn't feeling the bees quite as much as it normally does as I'm approaching spring.  However, I am not sure how much of that is because I'm dreading the moving of them.

 

Back to this tank... I would like some vertical driftwood at some point, I think.  But I want to make sure I keep it easy to clean the food/waste out for water changes.  More than anything at this point it's a 37 year old that wanted to keep these fish when he was 18-20 and was too scared because he had hard water. 😄  Tank is overstocked (or will be with growth) and I'm kind of hedging my bets thinking I'll lose some.  Knowing that if they all make it I'll either have to deal with the overcrowding or give some away as they grow.  I'm OK with an ugly tank if it means healthy, well grown fish in 18 months.  Then maybe I do something more elaborate.  But sometime in between there maybe I toss a couple sticks in with anubias and java ferns glued to them.  

What a ramble here. 🙃

You have a fellow bee keeper in the forum, he does the most fish stuff during the winter, I believe. 

Give me a bit, and I will even remember the name🤦‍♂️

Rambles are fine, my brain functions in paragraph format.

Look forward to talking more, I look forward to watching your discus grow. If you don't want to breed, you don't need RO. As much water needs to be changed for regular discus tank maintenance, it doesn't make much sense to use RO unless you are breeding.

[jwcarlson]

One tablespoon Hikari Discus Bio Gold

One tablespoon Xtreme Krill Flake

One cap garlic guard

They're eating it, but it doesn't hold a tenth as long as the FDBW.  Might try with half a cap of garlic guard and/or just one food instead of a mix. 

[jwcarlson]

On 2/18/2022 at 6:35 PM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Is this their permanent tank? You think some sort of cover would help them be less shy or is this just a Discus thing ya think? Or do they eventually know you and stop being so skeered?

I decided to put in a couple of pieces of driftwood that I had planned on adding at some point.  Now they have better places to hide behind.  😄

 

I say that partly joking as it has seemed to help them be a bit less sheepish.  The coolest thing is watching them hold tightly to the cover.  They stack into the "cups" in the driftwood pretty interestingly.  And, in general, they're eating and tolerating more traffic while being "out".  I guess I just expected them to be a little quicker in adjustment, but I know they're notoriously more skittish than other fish.  

 

I do think I'm going to find some oak limbs and attach three/four roughly vertical pieces of branch to slates and go that route.  I think that would be a cool look.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I DO get the impression from what I see here and other sites that they benefit from a bit of cover- it appears they like the option of being able to hide if they feel threatened which seems to make them just a little bolder when they know they have somewhere to go. I don't think that's unusual of any fish though. My CPDs, Harlequins and Black Neons dive for cover every time I pass their tanks which is a LOT since it's in a high traffic area of my kitchen. But if I sit there and watch they will eventually come out and move around. 

[Odd Duck]

On 2/19/2022 at 12:46 AM, Torrey said:

You have a fellow bee keeper in the forum, he does the most fish stuff during the winter, I believe. 

@Danielis a beekeeper.  And Torrey is right, we like rambles.

 @jwcarlsonThat video was a great link, very interesting.  Your discus look great.  Don’t forget to follow that thread about the nitrates.  It’s also extremely interesting.

[jwcarlson]

@Odd Duck

Thanks for the reminder 🙂  I've started reading this thread before, actually.  I didn't get to any of the pictures, or at least don't remember it.  I actually kind of like the look of the bamboo going all the way down to the bottom like that.  Wondering where to get such tall bamboo!  I think a mix with bamboo and some pothos sprinkled in for that rootiness.  

 

I "can't keep" nitrates at any appreciable level in my 37 gallon.  Working on finding that balance of light/ferts/algae.  

I do wonder if there would be enough nutrients in the discus tank to foster plants thriving as daily water changes keep everything way far down.

Edited February 22, 2022 by jwcarlson

[Odd Duck]

On 2/22/2022 at 10:24 AM, jwcarlson said:

@Odd Duck

Thanks for the reminder 🙂  I've started reading this thread before, actually.  I didn't get to any of the pictures, or at least don't remember it.  I actually kind of like the look of the bamboo going all the way down to the bottom like that.  Wondering where to get such tall bamboo!  I think a mix with bamboo and some pothos sprinkled in for that rootiness.  

Check my 75 gallon tank in my sig.  I got mine from a certain online, smiley store.

[jwcarlson]

I'm thinking I'll have to wait a bit before they're able to be shipped to me (on account of the cold).  But thinking I can get some pothos locally.  Or maybe tear some of mine out of the pots.  I do already have some cuttings rooting.  

Wondering if a philodendron could also be used...

Edited February 22, 2022 by jwcarlson