New Discus Journal

[Juancho]

On 4/21/2022 at 11:42 PM, jwcarlson said:

Mine are also from Hans 2.5"ers.  I am an over thinker/researcher (which is why I never had them when I was younger).  So I kind of knew what I was getting into.  I don't have enough experience to know if I am doing well, but I am happy with them other than the runts.  However, I have been told that is a normal occurrence.  Yours looks healthy, I'm sure they'll get going with continued good maintenance.  What are you feeding them?  This staple of beefheart and freeze dried Australian black worms seems to be doing the trick.  I am thinking about experimenting with beefheart in gelatin to keep it a little more intact.  They do seem to consume the vast majority of the beefheart and I am learning the correct portion sizes.  

I am up at 430 daily, lights wake them up around 530.  So I feed then, then feed again about 615 (beefheart both feedings in morning) on way out the door to work.  Sprinkle in some Hikari Vibra Bites and Discus Bio-Gold occasionally at that second feeding for extended grazing while at work.  On days I am home I pound them with food all day.  On normal days, I don't feed them again until about 5 when I get home.  Then I pound them until 730 or 8 when I am doing water change.  Tonight I hit everything perfect, they were pleasantly plump when I was changing water.  Most weeknights I feel like I leave a little on the table.

I have learned that they eat more of black worms that get loose and float if I feed those worms a little earlier in the evening so they can clean them up.  Otherwise I skim a lot of them off the top when changing water (that they would eat if they had some more time).

Basically, if I am awake at home, there is quality food in the tank for them.  They eat an unbelievable amount of beefheart and black worms.  And I really should install the auto feeder.  I got it all set up and never put it on the tank.  That might help push growth a little farther and I know the runts peck away at the food if it's available laying around during the day. 

 

Forgot to mention that I have pothos going now, which is pretty cool.  Roots are going like crazy, nitrates at the end of the day are effectively zero. 

Wow that’s awesome. 
So in the morning as I walk out the door at 8. I feed them jack whattley D-50 baby/juvenile pallets or tetra crisp. Both are really high in protein. My light are on timers and go on At 7:30 so there awake ready to eat. 
when I come home at 12:30 I feed them beef heart also from jack just cause it’s a little cheaper I feed when I walk in the door and feed them with flake as I walk out xcaliber spirulina or community flake also high in protein. 
 I get home I feed either brine or more beef heart. And before I go to bed I feed them more crips or flake. 
On the weekends or when I’m home like you I feed them all day and every other day I do water changes I have mange to keep the nitrates to 0 thus far.  
where do you get black worms. I have often thought about that. But just don’t have a great direction. 
i use to feed bloodworms but I had a flowerhorn get a parasite and pass away and every time I feed them those it just ran through my head, so I just stopped 

I’m thinking about plants but in time. I have plants almost in every tanks now. 

[Juancho]

On 4/22/2022 at 1:06 AM, Juancho said:

Wow that’s awesome. 
So in the morning as I walk out the door at 8. I feed them jack whattley D-50 baby/juvenile pallets or tetra crisp. Both are really high in protein. My light are on timers and go on At 7:30 so there awake ready to eat. 
when I come home at 12:30 I feed them beef heart also from jack just cause it’s a little cheaper I feed when I walk in the door and feed them with flake as I walk out xcaliber spirulina or community flake also high in protein. 
 I get home I feed either brine or more beef heart. And before I go to bed I feed them more crips or flake. 
On the weekends or when I’m home like you I feed them all day and every other day I do water changes I have mange to keep the nitrates to 0 thus far.  
where do you get black worms. I have often thought about that. But just don’t have a great direction. 
i use to feed bloodworms but I had a flowerhorn get a parasite and pass away and every time I feed them those it just ran through my head, so I just stopped 

I’m thinking about plants but in time. I have plants almost in every tanks now. 

Also forgot to mention. I also have thought about the gelatin mixed with beef heart. I might try that this weekend. 
for me I don’t think it leaves a huge mess but I would like for it to stay high for a bit instead of going straight down. I’ll let ya know if I do. 

[Juancho]

Did a water change in the Discus tank aka the chicken coop. I had a forty breeder that had nothing in it for awhile just water and algae. But today I added some housing and caves for plecos. Wiped down the glass and bought a new heater. Now I have some browns BN I gonna pair. Can’t wait to see what happens. I also dumped the super reds in the grow out. And cleaned the albino BN tank out. Man what a day. And to top off the day bought a new canister filter for the 125.  It was a great day 

[jwcarlson]

Forgot I had a picture of this one. 

[Juancho]

On 4/22/2022 at 5:21 PM, jwcarlson said:

Forgot I had a picture of this one. 

I’m really like them. I was a huge dark angle fan which Don’t  get me wrong still a stunning fish. But checkerboards 👌🏽

[Matt_AKA_Poth-O-Carry]

On 3/24/2022 at 12:24 PM, jwcarlson said:

Last night I added a Poth-O-Carry and put a couple of rooted pothos cuttings in and took two trimmings from a philodendron and put them in as well.    So excited to see those take off in the coming months. 
 

I hope your Poth-O-Carry is working out well still! 😄 😄 😄 😄 Always so exciting to see people out in the wild with my designs.

[jwcarlson]

On 5/4/2022 at 11:01 AM, Matt_AKA_Poth-O-Carry said:

I hope your Poth-O-Carry is working out well still! 😄 😄 😄 😄 Always so exciting to see people out in the wild with my designs.

I think the thing is awesome!  Working great.  I haven't populated the second one yet, but the first set of starts are humming right along!  

[jwcarlson]

Three months with the discus now... I feel like this last month was pretty much lost, but looking at pictures I can tell they've grown.  And my in-laws who haven't seen them for a month thought they looked bigger.  So I know it wasn't lost. 

However, it was really hampered by doing two levamisole treatments trying to get these two non-eaters to start eating.  I'm now resigned to probably moving them into a ten gallon together and seeing if I can get them rolling with higher temp and probably eventually metro.  One of them has started to eat some, but the other hasn't started.  Levamisole apparently makes them not want to eat.  They took these treatments two weeks apart relatively difficultly.  But most all of them are at least a little peckish, but I am told it can take two weeks to return to normal.

In any event, they almost all died when (apparently) our water switched over to chloramines.  I always put Prime in even if I age my water.  I forgot for about 30-45 minutes.  Just popped my head over to this (these were the best looking ones, three of them I thought were dead):

If I wouldn't have just by chance gone back to look for no real reason (this was Friday the 13th), I think they probably would have been dead in the morning or at least most of them.  I plopped prime in and they started turning around pretty quick after that.  Also dropped in a bunch more aeration (even through there's already five air stones) over night.

So that's further complicated their recovery from levamisole.  However, today they seem relatively happy and are thinking about greeting me at the tank again.

Nothing makes me realize how dirty the outside of the front glass is like taking a couple of pictures.  I would be lying if I told you that I haven't thought about getting rid of them (because I feel like a failure when stuff like this chloramine deal happens).  I do not mind the maintenance, but I do not like feeling like I'm failing something I'm caring for...

In any event, they sure are beautiful fish!

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

Awww. Not a failure. Lots of bumps can come into keeping "new" fish especially if you haven't kept them before or not in a long while. From what I know Discus aren't the easiest fish but I can see where they'd be absolutely rewarding when you get on the other side of this hill. Your batch is indeed beautiful. Keep going!!

[Juancho]

On 5/18/2022 at 6:08 PM, jwcarlson said:

Three months with the discus now... I feel like this last month was pretty much lost, but looking at pictures I can tell they've grown.  And my in-laws who haven't seen them for a month thought they looked bigger.  So I know it wasn't lost. 

However, it was really hampered by doing two levamisole treatments trying to get these two non-eaters to start eating.  I'm now resigned to probably moving them into a ten gallon together and seeing if I can get them rolling with higher temp and probably eventually metro.  One of them has started to eat some, but the other hasn't started.  Levamisole apparently makes them not want to eat.  They took these treatments two weeks apart relatively difficultly.  But most all of them are at least a little peckish, but I am told it can take two weeks to return to normal.

In any event, they almost all died when (apparently) our water switched over to chloramines.  I always put Prime in even if I age my water.  I forgot for about 30-45 minutes.  Just popped my head over to this (these were the best looking ones, three of them I thought were dead):

If I wouldn't have just by chance gone back to look for no real reason (this was Friday the 13th), I think they probably would have been dead in the morning or at least most of them.  I plopped prime in and they started turning around pretty quick after that.  Also dropped in a bunch more aeration (even through there's already five air stones) over night.

So that's further complicated their recovery from levamisole.  However, today they seem relatively happy and are thinking about greeting me at the tank again.

Nothing makes me realize how dirty the outside of the front glass is like taking a couple of pictures.  I would be lying if I told you that I haven't thought about getting rid of them (because I feel like a failure when stuff like this chloramine deal happens).  I do not mind the maintenance, but I do not like feeling like I'm failing something I'm caring for...

In any event, they sure are beautiful fish!

Your doing a good job man. Unfortunately these are the breaks in the hobby . Just keep doing your best. And be patient. You got this. You deserve these little guys. And it sounds like you care a lot with all the effort your putting in. . Keep it up man. 

On 5/18/2022 at 7:09 PM, Juancho said:

Your doing a good job man. Unfortunately these are the breaks in the hobby . Just keep doing your best. And be patient. You got this. You deserve these little guys. And it sounds like you care a lot with all the effort your putting in. . Keep it up man. 

Also you and I bought ares about  the same time and yours are growing quite faster then mine, I’m jealous. 

[Torrey]

@jwcarlson I hear the "not liking feeling like I'm failing at taking care of something I care about"

The point is, your niggling intuition *did* tell you to check on them "for no reason" and they didn't die. I understand how easy it is to beat ourselves up (even if we think we aren't) when things go wrong, because we've been conditioned to look for what is wrong. It requires a conscious effort on our part to [re]train our brains to learn how to focus on and look for what is going right.

Discus have never been the easiest fish in the hobby. I got into breeding them as a Holy Grail of things to breed... in the late 80's early 90's. Go swimming with them in the wild if you can, they are truly majestic in large 'schools' [take your goggles, the sediment does NOT feel good in the eyes]. It's a truly worthwhile vacation, in 1992 we were invited to stay with a family of water guardians. It's... no words. Watching Cory's Peru videos is a pale comparison to actually being there.

My point is, they are the most personable, most human like, most sensitive, and most worthwhile fish I think I ever bred. I cried when I sold the last of my discus in 2001, and there was no way I could have properly cared for them completely off grid. They respond like very cautious puppies: They need you to hang out with them, cover the tank if there's going to be a lot of activity in the room, and just be patient. When they start eating out of your hand (black worms are a typical hit) they will start tolerating more activity. I used to play music in their room 24/7, so unexpected noises wouldn't spook them and make them swim into the tank walls.

By the time I had the third generation, I could keep them in my living room tank and they would swim to the front every time the door opened. They require a bit more... of everything. Patience, heat, wriggly foods, cleanliness... and mostly patience.

I promise you, they are so worth it in the long run. I swear they talk, and then look at us patiently waiting for us to understand what they are saying... or maybe that's just me anthropomorphizing my discus in response to Dune.

Regardless, you have some gorgeous fish there! Bump up the heat, and see if the activity increases enough to stimulate the appetite. I always washed the heck out of my blackworms and hand selected what went into a shallow breeding tub, and let them grow for 4 to 6 weeks before feeding to my discus. They loved the live food options, and it seemed to prevent a lot of the live food issues. Another option is livebearer fry you have bred and no the parents were properly quarantined. The livebearer fry yielded better health outcomes, and stimulated the prey activity... especially if you have sufficient roots or plants for them to hunt in.

[HH Morant]

It is worth it for those beautiful fish.

[Guppysnail]

On 5/18/2022 at 7:08 PM, jwcarlson said:

.  I would be lying if I told you that I haven't thought about getting rid of them (because I feel like a failure when stuff like this chloramine deal happens).  I do not mind the maintenance, but I do not like feeling like I'm failing something I'm caring for...

I have felt this and every time something occurs I still go through this.  I think a lot of folks go through this.

[jwcarlson]

@Torrey I appreciate the kind words 🙂  I do tend to be hard on myself.  I assure you it's not hard enough to be affecting my mental health or anything.  I just know I can do better.  Same way with my bees.  The bees don't really make mistakes, but beekeepers do.  I do not have many bee colony failures that are not something that happens by chance (like a new queen gets eaten by a dragonfly when she's going off to mate kind of thing).  It's really lousy opening up a bee colony in the spring and seeing that they starved to death or died due to mite infestation that you didn't treat for... it's part of any hobby involving livestock.  But it still stinks.

On 5/20/2022 at 8:10 AM, Guppysnail said:

I have felt this and every time something occurs I still go through this.  I think a lot of folks go through this.

I *tend* to learn really well from mistakes.  I think the most discouraging part of these kinds of things is when it's something I could have prevented, but didn't necessarily control... if that makes sense.  I don't control that the city started using chloramine (apparently), but I could have prevented it by doing the Prime dose as I had been.  But there had been a couple warning signs that I didn't catch.  The first being that when I do the ammonia test strip it's not yellow anymore, but just the faintest hint of green.  I had been attributing that to heavy feeding, but I am leaning toward it being the chloramine after Prime does whatever it does.  Additionally one night awhile back the fish did something similar (but to a MUCH MUCH less extent.  I cranked all the air stones up and was trying to figure out what might have caused my water not to be well oxygenated in the aging barrel.  Overall, this is probably one of the better ways I could have found out.

[Juancho]

Any growth with your discus? I’m at a loss. I don’t know what more I need to do I can not grown them out.  One has gotten fairly big if the others were there I would be beyond happy. I now one is stunted for sure. But the others seem ok. Just not getting very big. Hate to start monkeying with things but I’m afraid I’m gonna have to to start to try other things. 

[jwcarlson]

I measured one of the biggest three smack at 4.5 after three months.  I'll measure a couple again around 4 months.  I am in the middle of treating the whole tank for hexamita with metronidazole and the smallest non-eater started passing white stringy poop.  I haven't seen him poop ever, so maybe that's a good sign.  About another week of metro.  Have a blanket over the tank for the duration (other than water changes), so I have no idea if it's eating or not.  But it's passing *something* and I guess I take that for a good thing.  

How often and how much water are you changing?  How do yours eat?

[Juancho]

On 6/4/2022 at 9:03 PM, jwcarlson said:

I measured one of the biggest three smack at 4.5 after three months.  I'll measure a couple again around 4 months.  I am in the middle of treating the whole tank for hexamita with metronidazole and the smallest non-eater started passing white stringy poop.  I haven't seen him poop ever, so maybe that's a good sign.  About another week of metro.  Have a blanket over the tank for the duration (other than water changes), so I have no idea if it's eating or not.  But it's passing *something* and I guess I take that for a good thing.  

How often and how much water are you changing?  How do yours eat?

Water changes are 40_50% every 2-3 days. And food is krill flake, brine , bloodworms and beef heart 3 times a day or more and more in the weekends. 
nitrates 0, nitrites 0, ph 7.5

i did some reading and it seems like they want you to keep 2.5 ones in a smaller (20)tanks untill they reach 4.5” then they say go to(30) until 6” idk 

thinking about putting them in a smaller tank for a bit. Like i said idk what to do. 

On 6/4/2022 at 9:03 PM, jwcarlson said:

I measured one of the biggest three smack at 4.5 after three months.  I'll measure a couple again around 4 months.  I am in the middle of treating the whole tank for hexamita with metronidazole and the smallest non-eater started passing white stringy poop.  I haven't seen him poop ever, so maybe that's a good sign.  About another week of metro.  Have a blanket over the tank for the duration (other than water changes), so I have no idea if it's eating or not.  But it's passing *something* and I guess I take that for a good thing.  

How often and how much water are you changing?  How do yours eat?

Also I hope your discus get better and stay better soon. 

[jwcarlson]

Yeah they don't suggest a bigger tank for grow out, not surr why exactly.  Someone said they swim too much in bigger tank and are burning calories.  I just have sponges so not making them fight heavy current 24/7 with a big canister or something. 

I don't feel qualified to guess why yours are not growing much.  All I know is for grow oit everyone told me pound them with clean water and lots of food.  So that's what I have done. I have the water change system down pretty well.  Takes me about an hour a night but time at the tank isn't much.  I am doing dishes, feeding dogs/cats, and doing other things using timers to remind me to go back to the tank. Also no substrate during growout.  I can't imagine a substrate in this tank and trying to keep it even remotely clean even with my daily 70% water change. 

[jwcarlson]

Tomorrow is officially four months.  Tonight I measured one at like 4.6" or so.  Not a ton of growth as I did two levamisole treatments the second of which clammed them up for nearly two weeks.

They are just starting to get a good appetite again. 

Finally lost the smallest straggler, but the other non-eater has had a real good rebound and is growing well.  So down to eight fish, which is OK.

They should take off running this month, though we are leaving for six days.  They will be fasting during that time.  Pictures don't really do them justice, but here are some. 🙂

 

[Juancho]

On 6/14/2022 at 7:06 PM, jwcarlson said:

Tomorrow is officially four months.  Tonight I measured one at like 4.6" or so.  Not a ton of growth as I did two levamisole treatments the second of which clammed them up for nearly two weeks.

They are just starting to get a good appetite again. 

Finally lost the smallest straggler, but the other non-eater has had a real good rebound and is growing well.  So down to eight fish, which is OK.

They should take off running this month, though we are leaving for six days.  They will be fasting during that time.  Pictures don't really do them justice, but here are some. 🙂

 

I wish mine were growing like that. Your doing good man. Mine all good eat well just growing ultra slow. So I have decided to not to focus on that and just keep them healthy and they grow as they grow. Cause it could drive a person crazy.  

[jwcarlson]

Few days late, but here's a five month update.  Biggest ones are a bit over 5".  I don't measure them all and I don't try to get super accurate, they're over five.  But not 5.5" yet.  The solid turquoise (or Flachen) is growing quite nicely now.  I think I've got pictures of all of them though they didn't all turn out.  

 

[FLFishChik]

I will live vicariously through your Discus journal.... they are my 'dream' fish....but I have not the experience yet to keep them

[jwcarlson]

On 7/19/2022 at 7:57 PM, FLFishChik said:

I will live vicariously through your Discus journal.... they are my 'dream' fish....but I have not the experience yet to keep them

I waited 20 years haha

[FLFishChik]

On 7/19/2022 at 9:03 PM, jwcarlson said:

I waited 20 years haha

I have time then, lol

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Beautiful fish @jwcarlson 😍