Attaching plants to hardscape

[Alec]

I am in the process of setting up a new tank. I have a large piece of spider wood that I would possibly like to add some plants to. Is this something I need to do right before I place the wood in the aquarium? What about adding plants after its already been in the water?

[Odd Duck]

On 12/1/2021 at 5:48 PM, Alec said:

I am in the process of setting up a new tank. I have a large piece of spider wood that I would possibly like to add some plants to. Is this something I need to do right before I place the wood in the aquarium? What about adding plants after its already been in the water?

Completely possible to add plants after the wood has been in the water.  I added a Buce today to wood that’s been in my tank for months.  Depending on how soft the wood is, or how much biofilm it has, I will sometimes wipe off some of the biofilm for better adherence.  Sometimes it easier to work with the wood before it builds up biofilm.

Personally, I like the wood to be soaked enough to sink, or attached to slate or rock so you don’t have to fight it staying down in position.  I still have some super sexy zip ties holding wood down to rocks in my 100 gallon tank.  One wood piece floated so well (after already soaking for MONTHS), that I’m still scared it will float if I cut the zip ties.  🤷🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️ It’s probably fine, now, but if I’m wrong, it will disrupt things soooo badly!

[Guppysnail]

Moisture is what cures cyanoacrylate (super glue). That is why our fingers adhere quicker together than two dry pieces of things that need to pull moisture from the air. I use a dry paper towel to wipe the spot I’m gluing and to dry off the roots a bit because too much water and it dries before the objects stick. 

On 12/1/2021 at 7:01 PM, Odd Duck said:

super sexy zip ties

My tanks are polluted with these 🤣

[Odd Duck]

On 12/1/2021 at 6:05 PM, Guppysnail said:

Moisture is what cures cyanoacrylate (super glue). That is why our fingers adhere quicker together than two dry pieces of things that need to pull moisture from the air. I use a dry paper towel to wipe the spot I’m gluing and to dry off the roots a bit because too much water and it dries before the objects stick. 

You’re so thorough!  I just pick my spot on the wood, add gel to rhizome, slap, hold, and pray!  😝  Works nearly every time!  If I have the wood OUT of the water, then I might blot a bit, slap, hold, and spray or dunk depending on the size of the wood piece.  🤣 

[Guppysnail]

On 12/1/2021 at 7:09 PM, Odd Duck said:

You’re so thorough!  I just pick my spot on the wood, add gel to rhizome, slap, hold, and pray!  😝  Works nearly every time!  If I have the wood OUT of the water, then I might blot a bit, slap, hold, and spray or dunk depending on the size of the wood piece.  🤣 

I’m thorough because I usually end up gluing myself to what I’m working with 🤣

[Alec]

So how would you go about adding plants to a large piece of wood that is hard to remove due to the scape? Is the glue able to be used underwater?

[Guppysnail]

I don’t think it works if submerged but I’ve never tried. I also would not do it with living things in the tank Can you do it during a water change when the water is low?

[Alec]

On 12/1/2021 at 7:31 PM, Guppysnail said:

I don’t think it works if submerged but I’ve never tried. I also would not do it with living things in the tank Can you do it during a water change when the water is low?

Idk why but I never thought about doing it during a water change. That's a good idea! 

[Odd Duck]

On 12/1/2021 at 6:20 PM, Alec said:

So how would you go about adding plants to a large piece of wood that is hard to remove due to the scape? Is the glue able to be used underwater?

Yes.  That’s exactly what I did today.  I got in a shipment of Buces, but I only had a specific spot planned for one in particular, so I popped that one right in since I knew where I wanted it.  The others are in a bucket until Saturday since I haven’t been feeling great this week.

I literally opened the lid, checked the fit of the rhizome in the groove in the wood where I wanted it, put superglue gel on the rhizome where I expected it to best contact the wood, slapped it in place (I mean, quickly, but gently placed it perfectly in position 🤣), and held it for a several seconds (20ish).  Double checked it was sufficiently secure with a GENTLE nudge (not a tug, just a little leaf flick).  Done.

You can’t dilly dally AT ALL when using glue underwater, not even with the gel.  It truly will set up before things are stuck properly together.  You don’t have to dive in and slosh half the water out, but have your spot selected, double check the fit, make sure you can grip the plant in a way that will let you hold it securely for several seconds, without wiggling because your arm is in a horrifically awkward angle (yep, done that, oops), preferably without gluing yourself to the wood or the plant (use a light touch with the glue), etc, etc.

Sometimes you don’t get perfect positioning, but it’s a plant, it will grow to cover your mistakes if it likes what you’ve done with the place.  If it doesn’t stick, try again until it does.  It’s not what I’d recommend if you’ve never glued plants before, but it absolutely can be done.  I didn’t even get glue on my fingers this time!  😉 

[Guppysnail]

On 12/1/2021 at 7:37 PM, Odd Duck said:

Yes.  That’s exactly what I did today.  I got in a shipment of Buces, but I only had a specific spot planned for one in particular, so I popped that one right in since I knew where I wanted it.  The others are in a bucket until Saturday since I haven’t been feeling great this week.

I literally opened the lid, checked the fit of the rhizome in the groove in the wood where I wanted it, put superglue gel on the rhizome where I expected it to best contact the wood, slapped it in place (I mean, quickly, but gently placed it perfectly in position 🤣), and held it for a several seconds (20ish).  Double checked it was sufficiently secure with a GENTLE nudge (not a tug, just a little leaf flick).  Done.

You can’t dilly dally AT ALL when using glue underwater, not even with the gel.  It truly will set up before things are stuck properly together.  You don’t have to dive in and slosh half the water out, but have your spot selected, double check the fit, make sure you can grip the plant in a way that will let you hold it securely for several seconds, without wiggling because your arm is in a horrifically awkward angle (yep, done that, oops), preferably without gluing yourself to the wood or the plant (use a light touch with the glue), etc, etc.

Sometimes you don’t get perfect positioning, but it’s a plant, it will grow to cover your mistakes if it likes what you’ve done with the place.  If it doesn’t stick, try again until it does.  It’s not what I’d recommend if you’ve never glued plants before, but it absolutely can be done.  I didn’t even get glue on my fingers this time!  😉 

This is awesome to know. I never would have thought you could use it underwater. 

[Odd Duck]

On 12/1/2021 at 6:31 PM, Guppysnail said:

I don’t think it works if submerged but I’ve never tried. I also would not do it with living things in the tank Can you do it during a water change when the water is low?

I’ve glued most of my Buces in my 100 gallon with the wood under water.  I have also done it during a water change, sometimes dropping the water level farther than typical in order to do the gluing.  But I’ve done it so many times now, I usually just stick it in there.

On 12/1/2021 at 6:34 PM, Alec said:

Idk why but I never thought about doing it during a water change. That's a good idea! 

It especially helps if you have a bigger rhizome that you’re trying to attach or attaching to a trickier spot than usual.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Odd Duck
Typo

[Brandon p]

The gel super glue is sold on coop. It works great on large hardscape down to using large Malaysian trumpets nails(empty) to attach penny wort or other small plants to small rocks to hide them.

[Dawn T]

If I can get the hardscape out easily enough to get the part above water that I want to apply the epiphyte plant to, I do @Odd Duck's approach.

If I can't do that, I use a piece of cotton thread and tie the plant in place. Cotton thread will dissolve over the long haul, but not before the plant has anchored itself to the hardscape. Haven't had any break down before the plant is anchored. Just make sure it's cotton. Nylon and such won't break down like cotton thread does.

@Odd Duck, I didn't realize you could actually use superglue under water! Of course, I have enough trouble with it ABOVE water, so... it might be tempting fate to try under it. 😋

[HH Morant]

On dark rocks, the regular superglue can look bad because when it dries it is white. When I was gluing some plants to lava rock I found some black cyanoacrylic glue which blended in with the black rock. I also used it to glue lava rocks together. The brand was Starbond.

[Brandon p]

I have not had issues with this I think one of the mistakes people make is a small drop will more than work.do you happen to know the price difference between super glue and black cyanoacrylic glue

[Minanora]

On 12/1/2021 at 4:41 PM, Odd Duck said:

I’ve glued most of my Buces in my 100 gallon with the wood under water.  I have also done it during a water change, sometimes dropping the water level farther than typical in order to do the gluing.  But I’ve done it so many times now, I usually just stick it in there.

It especially helps if you have a bigger rhizome that you’re trying to attach or attaching to a trickier spot than usual.

Mind.... Blown. I have always wanted to try to glue stuff after my tank was full... NOW I KNOW I CAN! \

🌈*The more you know*🌟

Edited December 2, 2021 by Minanora
Formatting messed up my rainbow. Fixed it.

[Gator]

@Minanora; Yeah, you can glue plants to wood, but my experiences say that it's best to tie the plants to the wood after the wood has become soaked enough to sink, this allows the roots to grow into the wood to anchor itself. I've tried using superglue to hold plants in place until they anchor themselves, but the roots didn't take off like they do when they're tied to the wood, maybe the superglue damages the roots somehow (?). 

[Minanora]

On 12/1/2021 at 6:53 PM, Gator said:

@Minanora; Yeah, you can glue plants to wood, but my experiences say that it's best to tie the plants to the wood after the wood has become soaked enough to sink, this allows the roots to grow into the wood to anchor itself. I've tried using superglue to hold plants in place until they anchor themselves, but the roots didn't take off like they do when they're tied to the wood, maybe the superglue damages the roots somehow (?). 

Totally agree with this point regarding root damage. But if you can get away with using very little glue, and not on the primary roots, I can see it really helping. I recently glued an anubias nana to a plant weight to set it level with the substrate and it worked quite well. Glue did kill bits of my christmas moss, and java moss, but once it grows over, you can't tell. 

I would tie things... but I have very little patience for these types of tasks. I was previously of the mind that if I can't glue it, I don't need it. So even if gluing makes it harder for the plant to take off, at least I'll have tried at all. 🙂

However I am obsessed with plants and will not, and would not ever, risk killing a plant entirely with glue. I'm not an animal. Just lazy.

And by lazy, I mean I have a full time job, a kid, etc. I just am not willing to dedicate more time to tying plants with my arms in the tank and my glasses falling off of my face. I've dropped them in the tank before!

[Gator]

I understand your statements about a full-time job, a kid, and wearing glasses. I'm retired, my two daughters are grown with fantastic careers, but I'm 68, retired, and had to start wearing glasses when I was 47. What I did and you can too after your kid goes to bed for the night is take the wood out of your tank, tie black thread around the piece of wood where you want the plant to be, if it is Java fern or one of the Anubias species, wrap the thread around the rhizome and the wood between the leaves, tie the thread off and you're done. If the plant is Java Moss, you'll need a needle to push the thread through and around the wood. Place the wood back in your tank and watch your plant grow.

[Gator]

@Minanora; No, I don't think you would intentionally kill any of your plants, but if you're like me, you'll make new plants from cuttings.

[Minanora]

@Gator Great ideas and I appreciate the detail. I am afraid to move the wood in my tank. It's quite massive. I may try in a future setup. I'm not so worried about my 3 year old helping me. He's actually a great helper for just about any task. Including using my giant tweezers to remove snails, and snail eggs without damaging anything in the tank.

I indeed make...many... new plants from cuttings. I am frequently told to get rid of my recycled taco bell specimen/experiment cups full of plants. 🙂 

[Odd Duck]

On 12/1/2021 at 8:53 PM, Gator said:

@Minanora; Yeah, you can glue plants to wood, but my experiences say that it's best to tie the plants to the wood after the wood has become soaked enough to sink, this allows the roots to grow into the wood to anchor itself. I've tried using superglue to hold plants in place until they anchor themselves, but the roots didn't take off like they do when they're tied to the wood, maybe the superglue damages the roots somehow (?). 

I try to not get glue on the roots, only the smallest spot I think will hold on the rhizome.  I do think I’ve gotten carried away with glue before, and slowed down the plant.  But as long as I keep the glue dot small and on the rhizome instead of roots, the plants seem to do fine.

I’m not good at tying Anubias and Buce.  I can tie moss just fine, but weaving that string between the leaves and then tying it successfully where it doesn’t loosen up prematurely?  Not my strong suit, apparently.

Edited December 2, 2021 by Odd Duck
Typos. 🤦🏻‍♀️

[BuzzDaddy21]

Glad I found this, such good information.

I got a little tree a while back and a branch broke off, week or so goes by and I watched a video by The Small Scape, and she used

a product with an accelerator for super glue, so I got some and man did it work fast.

I like the idea of using string or line, but I have to use my Opti Visor to tie fishing line on a hook🙂, just a sign of getting old.

 

 

[CalmedByFish]

@Odd Duck or anyone who knows,

If you put fresh superglue in the tank, how long does it take before it's safe for fish and snails to touch?

Also, does it off-gas anything sketchy?

[lefty o]

superglue will be rock hard and perfectly safe within seconds of it getting wet. water causes it to dry almost instantly. offgassing, good question. its likely even if it does offgas much, you are using so little to anchor plants that it should not be a concern.

Edited December 15, 2021 by lefty o