Alternative Nitrate Reduction via Emergents

[Odd Duck]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:11 AM, Guppysnail said:

@OnlyGenusCaps I Just found these at Lowes

Nice!  Tall enough to go all the way to the bottom in a lot of tanks.

On 4/16/2022 at 8:18 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Well, I was in my local reptile shop (well the older one, we have a new one too), and look what I saw they were selling:

I asked the associate there why they had so many of these, and they replied that adding them to a pauldarium keep the nitrates low in the water portion.  Then apropos of nothing, she added that fish keepers have found out that this plant works particularly well, and I could learn more by looking online.  So, apparently word is spreading to the herping community.  Interestingly, I can't find stuff like this at any of the LFS around here.  But now I know where I can go to get a stalk if I need one! 

Excellent find and fantastic that word is spreading!  @dasaltemelosguy, look at what you’ve created!  Wisdom is good!

[modified lung]

@OnlyGenusCaps really? they're at every LFS around me, garden centers and hardware stores.

 

[dasaltemelosguy]

@OnlyGenusCaps I know what you mean, I've been seeing them here but only quite recently as well. Just a year ago, at least in this area, I saw none. Now they're literally selling them even at PetCo and PetSmart!  

No more testing has been done here, so this is entirely anecdotal, but I had tried to make it more interesting with other emergent's but the pothos and LB just outcompeted them all and so far, every other plant perished but those two just keep growing.

Pothos and LB starved my anthurium, monstera, and peace lilies out of existence! I tried 3X but I finally gave up and let those two take over. I know when I'm beat!

BTW my LB is now 7'5"! 😮

Originally, I copied @Odd Duck 's beautiful 'LB Forest' in the center of this 125 but my now "Unlucky Bamboo" began losing an argument with a ceiling fan!

 

I relocated the fan and that bought me some time but eventually, I had to move the entire 'forest':

Still, a glutton for punishment, I couldn't resist because of the beautiful roots they create, and I added ten, 24" Red Mangroves to it. This too is an entirely anecdotal observation and there may be many other factors but my overstocked 125 lost 50% of the nitrates in 8 days! 

We did no testing on this so I'm just mentioning it, but we'll see if how this nutrient competition goes! So far, they're definitely growing very fast along with the pothos and LB's. 

I may regret this! 😮

And speaking of unproven anecdotal observations! 

I recently had noticed a lot of the fish in that tank flashing against objects as if to dislodge external parasites or the like. I could not see any, but half the fish were doing it. So, despite my plants, I chanced a salt treatment for a week, and it all cleared up nicely. 

However, I thought I'd mention this for whatever it's worth. After a week of the salt treatment, HALF the pothos died but the LB seemed totally unaffected! 🤪

[Odd Duck]

On 4/16/2022 at 11:40 AM, dasaltemelosguy said:

After a week of the salt treatment, HALF the pothos died but the LB seemed totally unaffected! 🤪

Interesting!  What salt level did you use?

[dasaltemelosguy]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:44 AM, Odd Duck said:

Interesting!  What salt level did you use?

Oh yeah, good question! Actually, I used Level-1 and raised it to Level-3 over 3 days. I could see yellow leaves by the 4th day and by the 8th, half the pothos died! But LB & Eveready "keep going, and going, and..."

[Jack.of.all.aquariums]

The dwarf umbrella palm in my puffer tank has been extremely prolific grown under some hardware store led shop lights. I haven't done a great job monitoring nitrates though. It's pretty easy to find too. Might be another species for you to look into.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Jack.of.all.aquariums

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:37 AM, modified lung said:

really? they're at every LFS around me, garden centers and hardware stores.

Yup, you can find them at garden centers here, and tiny ones at LFS being sold as "true aquatic" plants to be submerged.  But this is the first time I have seen them being sold specifically for nitrate reduction in aquatic systems.  That was the piece that surprised me. 

On 4/16/2022 at 11:40 AM, dasaltemelosguy said:

I relocated the fan and that bought me some time but eventually, I had to move the entire 'forest':

That's some dedication!  Looking good though!

On 4/16/2022 at 11:40 AM, dasaltemelosguy said:

So far, they're definitely growing very fast along with the pothos and LB's. 

You might want to offer @Biotope Biologist some tips on growing mangroves then.  🤪  I know he was struggling previously.  Not sure if he's found success or even still trying.  But I thought I'd tease him a bit.

On 4/16/2022 at 11:40 AM, dasaltemelosguy said:

And speaking of unproven anecdotal observations!

Hey, there are certain segments of the hobby that would list those as "fact".  🤣  In all seriousness, there are some things unproven that are championed by a few, which if they ever bothered to test it with the rigor you have here, the issue would be settled.  Ah but I suppose if they did, then, to paraphrase Huxley, an ugly fact may slay their beautiful theory. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/7/2021 at 4:54 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

Despite the deliberate architecture of this media (BioHome and Pond Matrix) to favor anaerobic colonization, anaerobic bacteria require a slower flow to maintain an oxygen-free environment. To that end the flow rates were rheostatic-ally altered as we found the greatest growth rate of anaerobes to be circa 50GPH. 

 

On 11/7/2021 at 4:54 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

In inverse order of efficacy in nitrate reduction; be it filter media (anaerobically), aquatic plants or terrestrials , if given enough space, time and quantity, all of these can remove nitrates to similar levels. But their efficacy is very different as they will favor ammonia or nitrate and this changes over time and with the light quality.

All told, it's a lot easier for most of us to remove nitrates with plants than filters!

These two tidbits were the interesting lines for me reading through all of the information provided. Very cool stuff. I think if there is a specific "flow" of water that creates the environment needed you can create a pretty dense, more efficient, "anaerobic zone" in something like a sump or some other designs. There's a pretty easy way to add this to basically ANY HoB filter (in addition to, not as a part of) and we are seeing things like booster filters more regularly.  These different mechanisms all open up what we would think on the saltwater side as a reactor, but the freshwater use case where we are targeting specifically anaerobic bacteria. Part of the issue is trying to fit the problem into the perspective of existing materials, instead of knowing that you have the realm to change the problem using other methods. As a design engineer, that's what I got to do on a daily basis, and it was (and is) fun as can be to see things that way.

[modified lung]

I use mint plants and water primrose to the same effect in my outdoor tanks. The primrose hasn't done well indoors though.

[Biotope Biologist]

On 4/16/2022 at 10:17 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

 

You might want to offer @Biotope Biologist some tips on growing mangroves then.  🤪  I know he was struggling previously.  Not sure if he's found success or even still trying.  But I thought I'd tease him a bit.

 

Haha I see everyone growing mangroves and cry myself to sleep. I have acquired a 40 gallon breeder that I have turned into a humidity chamber. I am ready to attempt again.

[Guppysnail]

On 4/16/2022 at 6:18 PM, modified lung said:

I use mint plants and water primrose to the same effect in my outdoor tanks. The primrose hasn't done well indoors though.

Water primrose does better floating the entire plant for me than emergent.

[Wise old fish]

I've had good results with spider plants, Chlorophytum comosum. They must be planted with leaves above water, or they will rot, But - if correctly planted they develop huge under-water root balls with vigorous growth of leaves and "spiderlings' . It's easy to harvest and remove biomass - just snip off the large spiderlings, and re-home in other tanks if needed. 

My rule of thumb if that plant growth (biomass) is vigorous, then by definition they will be removing nitrogen from the water and you're doing the right thing. Terrestrial plants from what I can find are about 3% nitrogen by weight. 

Edited June 27 by Wise old fish
Added wisdom