Algae Ecosystem Journal

[eatyourpeas]

On 9/17/2021 at 9:39 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Well, I went out to try to get some local macro-algae for the algae ecosystem.  No luck first time out!  I used a rake to drag the bottom as far out as I could toss it from the dock.  Got other stuff.  Mostly hornwort as you can see.

Obviously, I didn't end up needing the tub.  Because the local macro-algae species looks so similar to hornwort, it was a lot of searching through masses of wet plants.  In the end, to no avail.

Now before anyone has a freakout, the Minnesota DNR is fully aware of what I am doing.  I checked with them about the method I am using, the species I am collecting, the quantity of said species, and the location I am trying to collect it from.  They have approved all of it. 

I'm hoping I can find this stuff before winter sets in around these parts.  But if not, I'll be starting the tank with mat forming algae species first.  Que sera, sera.  In the meantime, searching through aquatic plants is kind of fun!

It takes patience. I now know when it is not going to be productive time for harvest based on the weather. Those days I just enjoy the time and not worry about getting anything. It may be that the season is already over for your harvest species at that particular lake. Is trying a different place an option? Sometimes depth may make a difference.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 9/17/2021 at 10:07 PM, eatyourpeas said:

Is trying a different place an option? Sometimes depth may make a difference.

I'll admit I was hoping to just go out and collect it right away.  Part of the reason for all of the research first.  But, you are right, I'll likely have to head out a few times.

In terms of a different location, I am restricted to lakes that have never had any aquatic invasive species reported from them ever.  It's because I have been in contact with the DNR, so they are a bit overzealous with their opportunity to "enforce".  I've learned that in this state you can collect aquatic vegetation for personal use in small quantities without a permit, as long as the plant is not listed as noxious nor endangered.  But I've agreed to the extra restrictions so they don't get worried.

I think you are correct about the depth.  The Characeae are often known for their habit of thriving in quite deep water; not always but often.  I'm restricted to docks and as far as i can toss a rake from them.  That's not working in my favor for sure.  It also means I fear disturbing the habitat too much.  I'm basically drag-netting the bottom of the lake for the width of a yard rake and a length of about 40'.  It's part of why I decided to do it at this time of year, as most of the vegetation is about to go dormant, so my actions at this time of year should minimize any impacts.  

But it's all okay, in part because the fish I want for this tank are proving challenging to track down.  So I have no plans for that tank except to get algae going, until I can get the fish I want.  I'm dedicated to obtaining a specific species.  As per usual.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Success!  Well, of a sort.  I was finally able to find a nicely structured algae in the lake. I just had to wade in to find it.  Here is what I found:

Ignore the bubbles.  That's because I just put it into some water from my tap.  It's almost certainly not a Chara sp.  It's too small.  But it has a nice regular structure, and is tightly bound to the rocks it is on, which will work in the tank.  I'd still like to find a Chara, but for now, this is going to be the starting stock for this tank.

The DNR is real sure there are no invasive species in this lake.  I'm less sure.  You see, it is directly across a road from a lake I know to have both zebra and quagga mussles (pretty sure the DNR knows that too).  I'm not keen to get either of those in my tank.  So, my plan is to add a decent dose of Seachem Cupramine to this in a holding tank.  That should take care of any unwanted mussles or snails that might have hitched a ride.  Is this overly cautious...  Maybe.  But if zebra mussles can hitch a halfway across the world in ballast water, and on marimo balls into tanks, I feel like they might be able to make it across a 2 lane road.  Plus, having good clean algae stock to start this tank will be nice.  It begins!

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Sorry for the multiple updates in a day.  I was so excited by finally finding the algae I want to start in there, that I decided to finish the rockscape on the tank this afternoon.  This will be the base upon which I'll start growing the algae. 

Is it a bit contrived?  A bit.  But I also don't know the sort of substrate that this algae will like most, so I wanted to pout in some variety.  I'm hoping to attached to the larger rocks at least, and perhaps the gravel.  At the very least I want to get enough cover to protect eggs and fry from serious predation.  That's a future problem though.  I'll have to get fish before those are concerns.  😛

[Torrey]

On 8/19/2021 at 1:55 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

On 8/19/2021 at 10:55 AM, Guppysnail said:

I use zebra danio.

Of course!  Brilliant!  That is what I will do.  Then, I'll have to figure out what to do with them after, but that's future me's problem. (Future me is not a big fan of past me because of this sort of behavior.)

Your future me and my future me have been sharing notes🤣

 

This looks like a really cool project!

 

I have tried 3x to grow algae, and one tank insists on devolving into cyanobacteria. 

 

It's such a gorgeous blue-green, I have intentionally encouraged it to take over a back wall of the tank before.... but that requires increased aeration. 

BBA and hair algae are the ones I have the most success with, however I finally have some staghorn algae growing in my 4' guppy tank. If the tank is big enough, and you limit the inhabitants to males, you won't get a population explosion. 

[eatyourpeas]

On 9/19/2021 at 4:12 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Is it a bit contrived?  A bit. 

All tank beginnings are contrived. In time, it will let you know what it wants to be. Looking great, and love the algae! 😃

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Today the copper went in with the algae.  I'm using nearly a double dose.  Am I being overly paranoid about introducing zebra mussels to may tank, when the DNR is not concerned with stuff from this lake?  Maybe.  But I am doing it anyhow!  Two long weeks until I can out the algae in the tank.  It's all about patience I guess. 

[eatyourpeas]

On 9/24/2021 at 10:45 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Today the copper went in with the algae.  I'm using nearly a double dose.  Am I being overly paranoid about introducing zebra mussels to may tank, when the DNR is not concerned with stuff from this lake?  Maybe.  But I am doing it anyhow!  Two long weeks until I can out the algae in the tank.  It's all about patience I guess. 

Please notify your snails of the change. 😉

It is worth being paranoid about the ZMs!

[OnlyGenusCaps]

I finally added the collected algae to the tank.  It's absolutely worse for wear after the dosage of Cu I treated it with for a couple weeks.  But here it is installed in one section:

Yes, there is some guppy grass in there.  I added a bit for cover as I am getting my fish next week.  Stay tuned for the reveal!

This algae is awesome because it seems to grow primarily on rocks.  I'm hoping that will allow me to control it well.  I was all set this morning.  Happy with that I have and looking forward to nice new growth over the coming months.  Then...

I took a trip to a LFS today to get some more blackworms.  And while I was there a high-tech tank caught my eye (how could it not, the light was so bright!).  It seemed to be getting over run with Black Beard Algae (BBA), except it wasn't.  The algae wasn't black, it was vibrant green!  It was absolutely amazing, and one of the best looking things in the tank, IMHO.  So I asked the owner if I could buy some off of him.  He was happy to let it go gratis because he was not happy with it and unable to get rid of it.  Where he saw blight, I see opportunity. 

My plan is to grow out the algae in my plant QT section.  Mostly, I want to see if it will adapt to my hard water, and whether it might revert to a black color in my low-tech, lower light environment.  If not, I think I am adding this to this tank.  Getting the rocks covered in flowing waves of Green Beard Algae (GBA?) sounds absolutely perfect, and I think will allow me to accomplish the look of the system in the video earlier in this thread from Ash Meadows.  That would be the dream!

But, I would like to get some input from all of you.  I'm still a bit on the fence about all of this.  Assuming this stuff doesn't loose its wonderful green color, should I remove the collected algae from the tank, or would it be better to keep both in there and see what happens?

 

[eatyourpeas]

I'd say go for both and see what happens. Then again, you know me, can't have too much algae as far as I am concerned.

[Torrey]

On 10/8/2021 at 2:22 PM, eatyourpeas said:

I'd say go for both and see what happens. Then again, you know me, can't have too much algae as far as I am concerned.

I'm with @eatyourpeas on this one.

[Biotope Biologist]

I third the consensus here. It's slow enough growing that if it starts to compute with your local algae you can step in and manage it. 

 

Can't wait to see the fish additions!

[Guppysnail]

On 10/8/2021 at 3:05 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

rocks covered in flowing waves of Green Beard Algae (GBA?) sounds absolutely perfect,

The times I have been blessed with the opportunity to see this in nature it’s always mesmerizing. The tranquility of it is wonderful.  I’m keeping my fingers crossed you are successful (and post videos😁)

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 10/8/2021 at 3:22 PM, eatyourpeas said:

go for both

On 10/9/2021 at 1:28 AM, Torrey said:

I'm with @eatyourpeas on this one

On 10/9/2021 at 1:58 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

I third the consensus here.

Sold.  It's still in plant QT row right now, but once it clears there (and I figure out how to attach it to the rocks) it's going in.  Thanks for the input everyone! 

If all works out well, I'll update on fish next week.

[Torrey]

On 10/9/2021 at 7:07 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Sold.  It's still in plant QT row right now, but once it clears there (and I figure out how to attach it to the rocks) it's going in.  Thanks for the input everyone! 

If all works out well, I'll update on fish next week.

👍💜🌱🌿💜

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Quick updates:

1. The collected algae is on its way out.  It looks terrible and I think it'll be dead in a week.  So does the recently acquired guppy grass for that matter.  The up side is the pods are devouring it it all as it dies!

2. The GBA (green beard algae) is now introduced to the tank.  I think this might be my saving grace on this tank effort.  Though, I'm still thinking about buying some Chara.  But if that GBA works, it might be my new favorite thing!

3.  The fish are in transit!  That means I am hoping to have the big reveal tomorrow. Let's hope they do well.

More soon...

[OnlyGenusCaps]

The fish arrived today!  Sadly, not all of them arrived alive despite paying an exorbitant fee to have FedEx get them here over night.  This is what I saw when I took the box from the delivery person:

Needless to say, that sight made my heart sink.  The water was clearly coming from inside the box!  So, after allowing the driver to document it for the shipper's records, I immediately opened it.  Several of the breather bags they fish were so lovingly packaged in had burst.  In fact, four of the bags were burst.  Three of those had no water in them, and the fish were clearly dead.  The final one had just a few mL of water left in the bag and was breathing.

That's the sad stuff.  The good news is that I was able to recover the little girl who had such a rough time of it.  Took her about an hour during a very careful acclimation to the new tank water, but she's right there with everyone else in the tank.  But "what fish are these?" I hear you asking.  I am very excited to have been able to obtain pupfish.  Real honest too goodness pupfish!

If you recall from the videos I linked to as inspiration for this entire endeavor, they both had pupfish in them.  I've had pupfish in the past, and I missed them greatly.  Indeed it was pupfish that originally got me interested in fishkeeping, as opposed to herps which I was doing, in the first place.  I set out with that as my goal from the start with this tank.  In the background, I've been searching for a year.

Perhaps you are wondering "aren't pupfish endangered, listed, and thus illegal to own?"  You'd be correct if it were one of the endangered desert pupfish species from the United States.  Unfortunately, these I have gotten, Cyprinodon longidorsalis, have it even worse.  They are extinct in the wild.  No longer found from the one spring Ojo de Agua la Presa where they originate.  I am thrilled and humbled to have the chance to keep and try to breed these very rare fish.  I am also in contact with the only zoo I know of and working to act as a backup to their population.  I also intend to spread these fish to other hobbyists who are willing to devote effort to maintaining and breeding them.  Big plans.

I tried to take some photos of them, but as you'll see, I am once again in possession of zippy little fish that just won't hold still to have their picture taken, even with @Zenzo and @GameCzar's photography advice. 

They are already coloring up nicely!  And to my eye, they are absolutely the most adorable fish in the world.  I love pupfish!

As you can see in the photos the collected algae is in terrible shape.  But, if you look at the base of the rocks, there is a green fuzzy algae with a hint of black.  That is my new Green Beard Algae (GBA).  And I think between that and these fish, I'm going to have my own little replica of that video from Ash Meadows National Wildlife Refuge I linked to before.  It's just a matter of time now.  And I'll provide updates. 

Thanks for looking!  I'm so excited to finally embark on this entire project!

[Zenzo]

@OnlyGenusCaps Your project looks to be exciting and rewarding. I am happy to read that you were able to salvage something out of the bad experience.

 Good luck!

[Streetwise]

My current feelings are the definition of melancholy. I am so sorry for your loss; I celebrate your survival fish, and I hope that your efforts pay off for you and the hobby.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 10/12/2021 at 4:35 PM, Zenzo said:

salvage something out of the bad experience

On 10/12/2021 at 5:10 PM, Streetwise said:

My current feelings are the definition of melancholy

Oh no!  I didn't intend to make people sad.  To me this is a start to good things.  The bad stuff has happened.  We can't change that.  But now there is a zoo keeping them and hoping to manage the species long-term, rather than just haphazard trades between a few people in the hobby (not to disparage those folks - they literally saved this species from extinction! It is just that management long-term will likely be easier at a zoo).  And I get to be a part of this new beginning, all while trying to make the tank of my aquatic dreams!  This is a moment I celebrate.  My apologies if I conveyed that poorly in my previous post. 

[Streetwise]

I relate to melancholy; persevering through struggle is good. Please continue.

[eatyourpeas]

@OnlyGenusCaps This is looking amazing already! I would not give up on the algae, though. I don’t think you have given it enough time to adapt, so don’t be surprised if it starts coming back.

I love that this is a tank with a purpose, a great purpose! Please continue, as @Streetwise stated before. 😍

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 10/13/2021 at 11:45 AM, eatyourpeas said:

I would not give up on the algae, though.

If by "give up on" you mean no longer hold out hope for its succeed.  Too late.  Already done.  But if you mean, don't toss out the rocks with it on them yet, no worries.  Even dead they are still giving the pods something to munch on, and still hiding them a bit.  The pupfish have been voracious in their hunting the pods down.  They love them! 

But in terms of the algae, I'll be super happy if the GBA takes over.  It looks for all the world to the unaided eye like an Audouinella species, but I'm not aware of green species.  It's got oddly blackish tint to sections of it as it moves though.  As long as it stays green, whatever it is, this is my new favorite algae!

[Torrey]

On 10/12/2021 at 6:01 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Oh no!  I didn't intend to make people sad.  To me this is a start to good things.  The bad stuff has happened.  We can't change that.  But now there is a zoo keeping them and hoping to manage the species long-term, rather than just haphazard trades between a few people in the hobby (not to disparage those folks - they literally saved this species from extinction! It is just that management long-term will likely be easier at a zoo).  And I get to be a part of this new beginning, all while trying to make the tank of my aquatic dreams!  This is a moment I celebrate.  My apologies if I conveyed that poorly in my previous post. 

We helped salvage poultry breeds that were almost obliterated by industrial farming industry. 

 

So wonderful to see you succeed!

May your breeding attempts be fruitful, and that is very distressing to hear about the bags rupturing 😔 I was so excited to hear a friend's success story of a shipment lost in the mail for 11/12 days, and all arrived alive in the breathable bags wrapped in paper.

 

Bursting is no good...

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 10/15/2021 at 9:35 PM, Torrey said:

We helped salvage poultry breeds that were almost obliterated by industrial farming industry.

That's important work.  Good on you!  There is a guy in Iowa with a veg and poultry catalog all filled with heritage and heirloom stuff that he maintains.  Apparently this massive selection is a hobby of his, as his main employment is as a high school teacher!  As amazing as his efforts are, I'm glad for groups like Seed Savers Exchange and the like.  I'm concerned for all of his varieties when he dies.  Institutional holdings can outlive a person.  That's why I am already in contact with a zoo.  I love these fish enough to want the species to outlast me for generations.

On 10/15/2021 at 9:35 PM, Torrey said:

I was so excited to hear a friend's success story of a shipment lost in the mail for 11/12 days, and all arrived alive in the breathable bags wrapped in paper.

That's incredible!  I'm guessing this package was abused by FedEx.  I can't think of another explanation for those to have popped.  The outside of the package had loads of "live fish" and "handle with care" stickers.  But it was a reused box, so I'm guessing the guys though the stickers were from a previous package.  Or didn't give a...  Didn't care.