WhitecloudDynasty Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 (edited) Ok i have to hear you guys/gals thought on this. Same parents, 2pair , 2 different set. First set have an huge under bite, and second set is 100% fine. They are about 1 month apart in age. They are raise the same, in a 10 gallon bare bottom, with 1 sponge filter, almost same control, other than feed. Can it be genetic? Environment? Feed? I'm guessing is due to feeding too much bbs? First batch was born around the same time I was feeding bbs to my rainbow shiner fry, so they got bbs twice a day from 2week to 8week of age with their normal .1mm pellets. Second batch didn't get that luxury, they would have gotten at most 2 weeks of bbs before I stopped. So the question is.. is too much bbs bad? Will this genetic carry on to their fry? I would like to hear from you @Dean’s Fishroom since you bred in high number and @Cory with your experience. Plus everyone else since i can't tag you all lol In nature GNA can change and adjust/adapt to new obstacles pretty quick. I highly doubt ill use the first batch in any of my breeding programs to be on the safe side. Edited February 8, 2021 by WhitecloudDynasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitecloudDynasty Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 First batch They look way better now with age Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitecloudDynasty Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 Second batch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Cory Posted February 8, 2021 Administrators Share Posted February 8, 2021 I myself have never seen a problem with brine long term when breeding. I've heard that microworms can cause problems with bettas, but haven't seen that in fish I've bred with brine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitecloudDynasty Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 28 minutes ago, Cory said: I myself have never seen a problem with brine long term when breeding. I've heard that microworms can cause problems with bettas, but haven't seen that in fish I've bred with brine. My rainbow shiner are fine on bbs. This is the only thing that is different from the 2 batch. White cloud is a species that are ment to eat mainly from the surface and with bbs in front of them the whole time, can it cause it? Is it a bad habit that force the body to adapt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 I would be leaning towards genetic I have never had problems with fry I feed heavily with bba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitecloudDynasty Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Colu said: I would be leaning towards genetic I have never had problems with fry I feed heavily with bba I'm not saying it can't be, but how the first batch is bad and the second batch is fine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 (edited) I thinking about it if it was genetic i would have expected some fish in both batches to be affected Edited February 8, 2021 by Colu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitecloudDynasty Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 2 hours ago, Colu said: I thinking about it if it was genetic i would have expected some fish in both batches to be affected Right, but its only from the first batch. If it not genetic will first batch carry this trait to their offspring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colu Posted February 8, 2021 Share Posted February 8, 2021 I don't think they would pass on the trait but just in case I would not use them as breeders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitecloudDynasty Posted February 8, 2021 Author Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, Colu said: I don't think they would pass on the trait but just in case I would not use them as breeders They automatically won't be breeder anyway, but it would be a interesting experiment. I'm going to try feed bbs heavily again and see if I can recreate this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 Just out of curiosity, do you rinse your bbs? Or do you just feed salt and all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fonske Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 19 hours ago, WhitecloudDynasty said: it would be a interesting experiment. I'm going to try feed bbs heavily again and see if I can recreate this. Maybe split one batch of fry from a single pair of parents into two halves? One half heavily fed with BBS and another half (not-so-heavily fed with BBS) for control? With all other variables kept as identical as possible, this kind of experiment might produce a meaningful conclusion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitecloudDynasty Posted February 9, 2021 Author Share Posted February 9, 2021 2 hours ago, Fish Folk said: Just out of curiosity, do you rinse your bbs? Or do you just feed salt and all? I do rinse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitecloudDynasty Posted February 9, 2021 Author Share Posted February 9, 2021 10 minutes ago, Fonske said: Maybe split one batch of fry from a single pair of parents into two halves? One half heavily fed with BBS and another half (not-so-heavily fed with BBS) for control? With all other variables kept as identical as possible, this kind of experiment might produce a meaningful conclusion. I hate to lose another batch but this worth finding out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitecloudDynasty Posted March 12, 2021 Author Share Posted March 12, 2021 2nd batch turn out amazing ..perfect jaw Now the question is what could have happen to the first batch? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted March 12, 2021 Share Posted March 12, 2021 I know I’m just looking at pictures and the fish could just be caught open-mouthed, but it looks to me like there are one or two in your second batch with the same problem? Maybe? Is this the first and second batch you’ve ever gotten from this female/pair/set? And are you putting multiple males in with one female? Just trying to think of other variables here. I saw from your other thread that you had to cull a lot to select your breeding adults. My guess is that this is genetic. Either you got “lucky,” or something in the first batch caused the bad gene(s) to get expressed. There are also factors we can’t control like minor infections that we probably never see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitecloudDynasty Posted March 13, 2021 Author Share Posted March 13, 2021 9 hours ago, Hobbit said: I know I’m just looking at pictures and the fish could just be caught open-mouthed, but it looks to me like there are one or two in your second batch with the same problem? Maybe? Is this the first and second batch you’ve ever gotten from this female/pair/set? And are you putting multiple males in with one female? Just trying to think of other variables here. I saw from your other thread that you had to cull a lot to select your breeding adults. My guess is that this is genetic. Either you got “lucky,” or something in the first batch caused the bad gene(s) to get expressed. There are also factors we can’t control like minor infections that we probably never see. First and second batch came from the same 2 pairing about 30ish fry each. If it was genetic it should show up on some of the second batch fry also, but they are pretty clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Not sure then. It will be interesting if you can reproduce the defect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitecloudDynasty Posted March 13, 2021 Author Share Posted March 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Hobbit said: Not sure then. It will be interesting if you can reproduce the defect! Thats the plan this year..I hate to lose another batch but it'll be worth finding out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostiesFishes Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Do you hatch the eggs in meth blue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitecloudDynasty Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 3 hours ago, FrostiesFishes said: Do you hatch the eggs in meth blue? I do not, only the rainbow shiner get that treatment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostiesFishes Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 I’ve be interested in your test results . But if I had to guess I’d say it has something to do with the water quality. But hard to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitecloudDynasty Posted March 16, 2021 Author Share Posted March 16, 2021 22 hours ago, FrostiesFishes said: I’ve be interested in your test results . But if I had to guess I’d say it has something to do with the water quality. But hard to know. Water should be close to the same, there was only about 20-25 fry per tank and I do 80% water twice a week if they need it or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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