Deworming Pea Puffers

[MTAquatics]

Hi everyone!

I just setup a 29 gallon pea puffer tank. I started their med trio today. 

For the next round of deworming in about 3 weeks, is it better to just stick with general cure or use another dewormer? I also have levamisole which I bought from Greg Sage about a year ago. Would that be better?

[Colu]

I would use the General cure  levamisole is a more harsh treatment 

[H.K.Luterman]

I used two rounds of Prazi Pro on my pea puffer and it seemed to work fine, though when I bought him he had a round belly so it was more of a "just in case" treatment. I've used Prazi for years and it's usually the one thing I always use during quarantining.

[OceanTruth]

Cory, in one of his videos, says that wild caught puffers are more susceptible to internal parasites, so he uses levamisole in addition to the med trio. Every so often I see tank raised Pea Puffers being sold. Maybe with those a single round of just the trio would be all right?

I always try to avoid wild caught fish. I feel like you would really need to medicate and observe more, because they are exposed to more things. Maybe I'm just paranoid though.

[MTAquatics]

48 minutes ago, OceanTruth said:

Cory, in one of his videos, says that wild caught puffers are more susceptible to internal parasites, so he uses levamisole in addition to the med trio. Every so often I see tank raised Pea Puffers being sold. Maybe with those a single round of just the trio would be all right?

I always try to avoid wild caught fish. I feel like you would really need to medicate and observe more, because they are exposed to more things. Maybe I'm just paranoid though.

Thank you! I just watched that video. They are captive bred but do you think the levamisole can do harm or is it worth the piece of mind? @Cory

[Cory]

Every med can do harm. The problem is, this is like asking someone if going the doctor can ever be harmful? If they're being honest, sure, they could get misdiagnosed, complication with a surgery etc.

I believe if someone is worries about internal tapeworms specifically and wants to go beyond paracleanse. Research symptoms and then see if you feel you need to take further action.

Most times a captive bred fish, with the correct paracleanse treating will come out "clean". However your fish could be mislabeled as tank bred, it could have shared a tank with other fish, it could have been wild caught at the wholesaler 2 weeks ago, and then the next batch was tank raised.

So mostly it's about covering your bases, then keeping active watch.

[MTAquatics]

1 hour ago, Cory said:

Every med can do harm. The problem is, this is like asking someone if going the doctor can ever be harmful? If they're being honest, sure, they could get misdiagnosed, complication with a surgery etc.

I believe if someone is worries about internal tapeworms specifically and wants to go beyond paracleanse. Research symptoms and then see if you feel you need to take further action.

Most times a captive bred fish, with the correct paracleanse treating will come out "clean". However your fish could be mislabeled as tank bred, it could have shared a tank with other fish, it could have been wild caught at the wholesaler 2 weeks ago, and then the next batch was tank raised.

So mostly it's about covering your bases, then keeping active watch.

Makes sense! Thank you so much!

[Jennifer V]

@H.K.Luterman @Cory I may be in a bit of a pickle. I read all I could find about caring for pea puffers and somehow missed the deworming portion. I just got mine from Aquahuna last night. They're in a species only tank. So, now that I already have them, do I order the paracleanse and then treat? Do I run out to the store and grab something else? If so, what? Do I feed them on the days I treat the tank? They already cleared the tank of all the small bladder snails I had in there and we fed them a few frozen bloodworms. 

[H.K.Luterman]

1 minute ago, Jennifer V said:

@H.K.Luterman @Cory I may be in a bit of a pickle. I read all I could find about caring for pea puffers and somehow missed the deworming portion. I just got mine from Aquahuna last night. They're in a species only tank. So, now that I already have them, do I order the paracleanse and then treat? Do I run out to the store and grab something else? If so, what? Do I feed them on the days I treat the tank? They already cleared the tank of all the small bladder snails I had in there and we fed them a few frozen bloodworms. 

If they have little round bellies, they're not in any danger and can wait a bit until you get some de-wormer. I use Prazi Pro, which I order from the Co-Op. But you could also use General Cure, which is usually at box stores if you don't want to wait. De-worming is usually just a "just in case" treatment and not anything too dire if they already look healthy.

You should be able to feed them while treating without any issue. 

[Jennifer V]

2 minutes ago, H.K.Luterman said:

If they have little round bellies, they're not in any danger and can wait a bit until you get some de-wormer. I use Prazi Pro, which I order from the Co-Op. But you could also use General Cure, which is usually at box stores if you don't want to wait. De-worming is usually just a "just in case" treatment and not anything too dire if they already look healthy.

You should be able to feed them while treating without any issue. 

Two of them are on the small, thin side but the others look nice and round. I suffer from "newbie panic" so I had an ahhhh moment. Thank you for the info! 

[Cory]

You should have time to wait until paracleanse would show up. If there isn't time, then they weren't healthy enough to begin with. I doubt that's the case.

[Brandy]

1 hour ago, Jennifer V said:

Two of them are on the small, thin side but the others look nice and round. I suffer from "newbie panic" so I had an ahhhh moment. Thank you for the info! 

Because I am a newbie also prone to unnecessary panic--keep in mind females are MUCH fatter and rounder than males sometimes, I can actually tell mine apart that way. Puff Daddy is healthy, but sleeker, shaped more like the famous Murphy than a round little ball like my females. His belly is more gently round. The sick ones look tucked up, like they are trying to suck in their gut, and they are sharply flat on the bottom. I would take a pic, but they are not being cooperative at the moment.

[Jennifer V]

4 hours ago, Brandy said:

Because I am a newbie also prone to unnecessary panic--keep in mind females are MUCH fatter and rounder than males sometimes, I can actually tell mine apart that way. Puff Daddy is healthy, but sleeker, shaped more like the famous Murphy than a round little ball like my females. His belly is more gently round. The sick ones look tucked up, like they are trying to suck in their gut, and they are sharply flat on the bottom. I would take a pic, but they are not being cooperative at the moment.

Ok great to know! And I'm glad I'm not alone in the freak out department. Here's a pic of some of my cute little nuggets. 

[Annam]

Hi I have paracleanse and expel-p  which one do I use  

[Patrick_G]

I tried Paracleanse first. It worked so I didn’t need the expel-p.  From what I understand the Paracleanse is more gentle. 
 

[Odd Duck]

ParaCleanse and Expel-P get different types of intestinal parasites but do have some overlap in what they treat.  Expel-P (levamisole) gets the more common parasites and is NOT harder on the fish but is definitely hard on any snails in the tank.  The Expel-P essentially paralyses the parasites and allows the fish to expel them, hence the name.  ParaCleanse is a combination of 2 medications, praziquantal which paralyzes tapeworms and other related worms to allow them to be expelled, and metronidazole which is used as an antibiotic but it is also has activity against certain one-celled intestinal parasites like Hexamita among others, and even has some activity against Ich (not enough to be a sole treatment).  In combination with the praziquantal, it has effect against flukes, and against some nematodes and trematodes.

Both ParaCleanse and Expel-P are fairly broad-spectrum dewormers with some overlap in what they treat.  For the most effective deworming, you will need to use both since it is very hard to collect fecal samples and run tests on pea puffer poo.  Both these meds can easily be done with some overlap.  Always watch for any symptoms during treatment, especially immediately after adding the medications.  Have dechlorinated water ready to do a rapid water change just in case of any significant symptoms (I haven’t seen any symptoms from dosing on pea puffers).  Follow directions and calculate dosages very carefully!

Below is a copy/paste from another app where I made it that doesn’t format well on transfer, so pardon any weird spacing or font.  I have posted most of this previously, but I keep refining and clarifying as best I can, so I apologize if you have seen most of this before.

Deworming

Siphon out debris from the bottom before and after dosing to remove any expelled worms, debris, etc.  Levamisole is inactivated by organic debris and by light, so dose after lights out and black out the tank for 24 hours, remove organics via water changes and cleaning the bottom of debris as much as possible.

It’s likely that levamisole does what it can do within the first hour, but best to follow directions precisely.  If you have a bare bottom hospital tank available, it might be best and easiest to transfer the fish to that tank for the duration of treatment - up to 5 weeks total treatment time if doing 3 doses of praziquantal.

Levamisole treatment should be weekly for 4 treatments.  Praziquantal treatment should be every other week (at least) for 2-3 treatments and it is left in for a week at a time.  It can be dosed the day after levamisole treatment.  Remove any carbon or Purigen from filters before dosing.

Have enough dechlorinated water to do a 50% water change immediately if any adverse symptoms are seen in the fish.

 

A typical treatment regimen: 

1. 50% water change with careful siphoning of debris from the bottom of the tank.

2. Dose with levamisole and black out the tank for 24 hours.  Then 50% water change siphoning the entire bottom of the tank.

3. Dose with praziquantal directly after the second 50% WC.

4. One week later, 50% water change siphoning the bottom thoroughly.  Dose with levamisole following directions in step 1-2.

5. One week later (start of week 2 of treatment), repeat all steps 1-4 over another 2 weeks time.

6. Repeat all steps 1-5, then do last WC one week later after third dose of praziquantal.

 

Most snails will NOT tolerate treatments, so best to remove any snails in the tank.

 

Condensed weekly schedule:

Week 1: siphon/WC, levam x 24 hrs, siphon/WC, then prazi.

Week 2: siphon/WC, levam x 24 hrs, siphon/WC.

Week 3: siphon/WC, levam x 24 hrs, siphon/WC, then prazi.

Week 4: siphon/WC, levam x 24 hrs, siphon/WC.

Week 5: siphon/WC, levam x 24 hrs, siphon/WC, then prazi.

Week 6: siphon/WC.

Guide: siphon/WC = siphon any visible debris and do 50% water change; levam = treat with levamisole; prazi = treat with praziquantal.

 

Hope this helps clarify somewhat.