Starting a Livebearer Tank--Suggesitons

[KaitieG]

There are lots of questions here, but I'm really just looking for ideas.  I'd love thoughts on any/all of these.  I'm looking at setting up my first big tank--a 75 or 90 gallon depending on the best deal I can find.  I'd like to do a mix of livebearers--guppies for sure and then thinking of adding in a few platys or mollies.  We have the hard water for it, I think guppies are some of the prettiest fish out there, and I'll have a perpetual supply of fish that's always changing.  I like that the platies/mollies get a somewhat larger and can add some variety, but guppies are definitely my favorites. 

I started out with 5 community guppies from Twin City Guppies and ended up with the 2nd generation of males all being dark blue/black delta tails and very pretty females with large yellow and black tales.  I'm planning to move some of these over out of the smaller tanks, but I'd also like to end up with some more color.  The females are virgin at this point and could be mixed with anything.  Right now everyone's pretty but also all the same.  So here are my questions:

1. Do I just get the cheap assorted guppies at my LFS this time and pick out the colors I want?  Throw one each in with a female in a breeding box for an hour and see what I end up with? 

2. Do I spend A LOT more money on higher end breeding pairs the colors I want when I'm not planning on trying to breed true--just wanting variety?  Will they end up imparting better genetics and make better fish?  Anyone have a good source suggestion for these if that's the case?  I honestly don't think I'm prepared to spend $50 plus shipping for 2 fish from Twin City, and I can't pick anything out for the community selection.  I could see swinging $20-$25 a pair if it would lead to better fish down the road.

3. How many guppies/platties/mollies would you recommend starting with in a 75/90 gallon tank?  My thought is to start out "slowly" with livebearers--I know the population will EXPLODE after about a month--and then add a single angel to manage fry population and because I've always wanted one.  I'm hoping if the tank is planted up a FEW fry will make it but not enough to overrun everything.   People with lots more experience--think that will work?  My LFS is an hour away and only accepts guppies for donation at this point, so there's not a big market for fry, and I'd like to keep my water changes down to about weekly--not daily!

4. Unrelated to the fish--does anyone have suggestions on substrate/plants that would look particularly good with this kind of setup?  

Edited December 23, 2020 by KaitieG

[Brandy]

I vote mutts. You are making mutts on purpose, and so "true" lines are going to be less important to you. You (like me) enjoy the surprise factor.

Only warning would be that if you cross too many things there is a risk you will end up back to wildtype. My solution so far has been to choose a particular trait I particularly like and target it. I decided (fairly arbitrarily) that I want colored pectoral fins on everybody and a metallic sheen on the heads. I also keep in mind basic physical fitness. But I let the tails be any color, etc.

I don't have albino or gold either, or reds. I like those colors, but they don't have the dark front fins I want. I think that will keep your mutts from muddying back to neutral in a few generations. If I wanted albino/red/gold I would probably need to keep a separate colony.

[H.K.Luterman]

I feel like picking out guppies from your local store might be the most fun and of course least expensive. Every now and then coming home with a new color variety sounds like a fun treat to me. Some places online do sell packs of "mutts," but yeah, the shipping can be expensive.

If you're going to add a predator to keep the numbers down, try adding rock piles to your tank. I have a catfish in with my limias and platies, and she eats the majority of fry. BUT, the rockwork allows a few to make it; she can't get at them all.

 

As for plants, things with hanging roots could be nice, like frogbit. Fry like to hide in the roots. 

[lefty o]

with guppies, you have to decide if you want to try and line breed them for whatever characteristic you want, or just let whatever happens , happen. plenty of videos out there on line breeding guppies.  better fish is in the eye of the beholder. pure strains certainly have the eye appeal depending on what it is you are looking for, however mutt guppies will tend to be more robust/healthier. 2-3 pair of guppies, or mollies etc will have you up to your ears in fry in no time.

i recently started or more correctly restarted something similar. i gave away my old strain of guppy/endler hybrids, and got a pair of blue dragon guppies, and a pair of yellow dragon guppies, and 2 young female red dragon guppies. i like the dragon type of guppy, and time will tell what colors show up. good luck.

[Brandy]

Ooo, also with an angel fish valisnaria is soo nice they sort of slither thru the fronds. I like your population control strategy.

[KaitieG]

Thanks! This is all so helpful!  Here's what I ended up with after donating the gray females. Top pic is males...they all basically look the same.  Bottom is females... I love how the females look!  This maybe should go in the breeding section,  but any suggestions on traits or colors that might combine well to get me started?

[lefty o]

them are some really good looking females.

[KaitieG]

15 minutes ago, H.K.Luterman said:

I feel like picking out guppies from your local store might be the most fun and of course least expensive. Every now and then coming home with a new color variety sounds like a fun treat to me. Some places online do sell packs of "mutts," but yeah, the shipping can be expensive.

If you're going to add a predator to keep the numbers down, try adding rock piles to your tank. I have a catfish in with my limias and platies, and she eats the majority of fry. BUT, the rockwork allows a few to make it; she can't get at them all.

As for plants, things with hanging roots could be nice, like frogbit. Fry like to hide in the roots. 

Thanks!  I think so too, and that was the way I was leaning, but wanted to get some more input too!  I appreciate it!

I'm wanting to add some rock to this one--haven't used it before, only driftwood in the smaller tanks. That's a great suggestion!
 

I'm going to try floating plants ONE MORE TIME with this tank--I've killed every variety I've ever tried...even duckweed (3 times!)

[Wingman12r]

If your into live-bearers and want something a little different I would highly recommend looking up Goodeids and Yucatan Mollies.

 

Goodeids for the most part they have the same requirements, only slightly cooler water and are endangered in the wild. I've found them to be more hardy than the usual guppy/molly/platys.

Yucatan Mollies (Poecilia Believers) can get 4-5" and really fill out a large tank. Plus the mating displays of the males are really Something to behold.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Wingman12r

[Brandy]

Oh! sorry for the multiple posts but just thought of another thing.

If you got mollies and/or platys in red/orange/yellow and kept the guppies in green/blue/purple/yellow, you would would have such a colorful tank! Angel in yet another color...dark substrate, maybe eco-complete or gravel capped with black diamond blasting sand? And a few albino cories or khuli loaches? It would look like a cloud of butterflies, lol.

[Colu]

Xenotoca eiseni   orange tailed goodeid are great fish they do like it on the cooler side

 

[KaitieG]

57 minutes ago, Wingman12r said:

If your into live-bearers and want something a little different I would highly recommend looking up Goodeids and Yucatan Mollies.

Goodeids for the most part they have the same requirements, only slightly cooler water and are endangered in the wild. I've found them to be more hardy than the usual guppy/molly/platys.

 

Looking these up right now!  Very cool!  I'm seeing a max temp for the Goodeids of about 74-75 and a min for angels at about 78.  Thoughts about who could deal with hotter or colder, out or are they not a good option together?

[KaitieG]

48 minutes ago, Brandy said:

Oh! sorry for the multiple posts but just thought of another thing.

If you got mollies and/or platys in red/orange/yellow and kept the guppies in green/blue/purple/yellow, you would would have such a colorful tank! Angel in yet another color...dark substrate, maybe eco-complete or gravel capped with black diamond blasting sand? And a few albino cories or khuli loaches? It would look like a cloud of butterflies, lol.

I think you've totally got what I am going for 🙂  The red/orange/yellow mollies and platys are my favorites, though I do like the black ones too, and I love albino corys--and pretty much all the other kinds too.  

[Fish Folk]

We bought about 6-8 guppies, equal numbers male / female  from the big chain store ... gave them the “med-trio” Cory recommends... put them outside I a mini pond all summer, and ended up with 75+ wildly assorted guppies that we moved in to our friend’s 5th grade classroom tank. The color spectrum they threw out in their genetics in the sunlight outdoors was _amazing_.

[StephenP2003]

4 hours ago, KaitieG said:

y thought is to start out "slowly" with livebearers--I know the population will EXPLODE after about a month--and then add a single angel to manage fry population and because I've always wanted one.  I'm hoping if the tank is planted up a FEW fry will make it but not enough to overrun everything. 

Well, what's your definition of overrun? In my experience thus far, my livebearer tank population is taking care of itself. I feed live baby brine daily plus an assortment of other foods throughout the week. It doesn't matter how much I feed, the guppies and platys always look hungry, and I never feed more when I see a new batch of fry. The fish constantly graze on microorganisms in the substrate, on the plants, on the filter media, as do the shrimp and corydoras, and the few BN plecos that escaped from my fry box a few months ago. Part of their grazing includes fry and shrimplet snacks. The platys seem to be the most voracious fry-eaters.

I've posted this tank (a 40 breeder) many times, but it's constantly changing:

 

That's a lot of fish. Anyone care to count them, 'cause I do not.  This tank started off with the offspring of a dying female guppy. Any line-bred guppy I bought from my LFS wouldn't last 2 weeks, but the females (being always and forever pregnant) produced some slightly stronger offspring. Then my daughter's platy gave birth, so I added those fry to this tank to grow them out, then COVID hit and my wife had to bring her platys and guppies home from her classroom. In April, to introduce new blood, I bought some assorted male guppies from aqua huna, some additional platys from my LFS, and added tiger endlers (male and female) that I'd been breeding in another tank. 

This tank has also become a plant overflow, housing trimmings and whatever I decide to take out of my "scaped" tanks.  Believe it or not, I don't really "need" to change the water in this tank, but I do it twice a week because I'm encouraging growth. I haven't added or removed any fish from it since April, but I'm planning to start selling off some adults after the holidays so I can give new generations an opportunity to grow. 

I feel like I see a new color pattern every time I take time to sit and watch the tank. The endler/guppy "hybrid" offspring really adds a new dynamic. Photographing is a bit difficult though:

 

 

So, all this is to say... mutt guppies all the way.

[Dawn T]

@StephenP2003 Beautiful tank! I love how dense the plants are, and that's a stunning group of fish. 🙂

[Lemon]

42 minutes ago, StephenP2003 said:

Well, what's your definition of overrun? In my experience thus far, my livebearer tank population is taking care of itself. I feed live baby brine daily plus an assortment of other foods throughout the week. It doesn't matter how much I feed, the guppies and platys always look hungry, and I never feed more when I see a new batch of fry. The fish constantly graze on microorganisms in the substrate, on the plants, on the filter media, as do the shrimp and corydoras, and the few BN plecos that escaped from my fry box a few months ago. Part of their grazing includes fry and shrimplet snacks. The platys seem to be the most voracious fry-eaters.

I've posted this tank (a 40 breeder) many times, but it's constantly changing:

 

That's a lot of fish. Anyone care to count them, 'cause I do not.  This tank started off with the offspring of a dying female guppy. Any line-bred guppy I bought from my LFS wouldn't last 2 weeks, but the females (being always and forever pregnant) produced some slightly stronger offspring. Then my daughter's platy gave birth, so I added those fry to this tank to grow them out, then COVID hit and my wife had to bring her platys and guppies home from her classroom. In April, to introduce new blood, I bought some assorted male guppies from aqua huna, some additional platys from my LFS, and added tiger endlers (male and female) that I'd been breeding in another tank. 

This tank has also become a plant overflow, housing trimmings and whatever I decide to take out of my "scaped" tanks.  Believe it or not, I don't really "need" to change the water in this tank, but I do it twice a week because I'm encouraging growth. I haven't added or removed any fish from it since April, but I'm planning to start selling off some adults after the holidays so I can give new generations an opportunity to grow. 

I feel like I see a new color pattern every time I take time to sit and watch the tank. The endler/guppy "hybrid" offspring really adds a new dynamic. Photographing is a bit difficult though:

 

 

So, all this is to say... mutt guppies all the way.

that tank is crazy! can you get a video?

[KaitieG]

41 minutes ago, StephenP2003 said:

Well, what's your definition of overrun? In my experience thus far, my livebearer tank population is taking care of itself. 

I've posted this tank (a 40 breeder) many times, but it's constantly changing:

I feel like I see a new color pattern every time I take time to sit and watch the tank. The endler/guppy "hybrid" offspring really adds a new dynamic. Photographing is a bit difficult though:

 

 

 

So, all this is to say... mutt guppies all the way.

That is such a fun tank!  I love the yellow guy in the middle of this picture!  So interesting to see what you end up with!  I think I'm going to start off with the guppies I have and see what their babies look like and go from there.  I'd like to try a couple of the larger mollies and some platies too.  

Overrun means that when I got my original 5 guppies I thought they'd eat most of their fry.  They didn't eat any of them. I only fed once a day and err on the side of underfeeding.  I fed a few a day to an ADF we had for a little while before he went back to the LFS for someone else to adopt him and hand feed him live food--not my thing), ended up with at least 50 adults after separating sexes and only had a 20 and a 10 to put them in.  And they had to share with the cories and white clouds. I don't want to end up with, say 1000 guppies in a 90 gallon either 🙂 And that's what seems like it could happen without someone to eat most of them!

Maybe mine were just exceptionally considerate parents.

[Joshua14]

I honestly prefer guppies with shorter tails! Personally I think they are easier to care for. 

As far as plants go, floating water sprite has been a savior for me in terms of breeding and water quality for my guppies. 

[StephenP2003]

3 hours ago, quirkylemon103 said:

that tank is crazy! can you get a video?

Yep! Just filmed today and put some clips together:

 

[Fish Folk]

StephenP2003 that tank is . . . R. I. G. H. T. E. O. U. S. ! ! ! !

Old Sera Tab recipe or new?? 

[Fish Folk]

Here’s a video of the 5th grade class tank we set up with mutt outdoor mini pond guppies (33 gal. long)

 

[lefty o]

48 minutes ago, StephenP2003 said:

Yep! Just filmed today and put some clips together:

 

thats a pile of guppies. have you named them all? LOL

[StephenP2003]

10 minutes ago, Fish Folk said:

Old Sera Tab recipe or new?? 

The old one. I lucked out with my Amazon order. I ordered them expecting to get the new stuff but ended up getting the classic tabs. I only have a few left, though.

[StephenP2003]

15 minutes ago, Fish Folk said:

Here’s a video of the 5th grade class tank we set up with mutt outdoor mini pond guppies (33 gal. long)

 

Very cool! My wife wants to do something at her school, but she teaches the really little ones - ages 3 to 6 - so right now she just has a 10-gallon with live-bearers. One of the other teachers has a boyfriend who supposedly maintains the 55-gallon at the school's front office, but it's stocked with koi (yes koi) and goldfish and looks terrible all the time. Love to see classrooms learning about the hobby in a more advanced way.