mountaintoppufferkeeper Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) The project has officially begun now. Egg collection was nearly impossible I was not really ready for it first round so grabbed the subwassertang and put it i to a german breeding ring floating in an empty 60 breeder. Still learning and the initial 6 or more will be invaluable to me to get better for the next group. Adjustments to wild group tank to follow for the next try and hopefully get more eggs to start. Day 0 March 24 2023 at 134 pm up here Today day 5 March 29th 2023 at 530pm to 615 pm @Preston John they are amazingly small in person. Way smaller than the palustris fry were. 5 days to free swimming at 9,100 feet seems like the altitude doesnt change the development so far. Day 6 30MAR23 0432/432am Thats a normal sized subwassertang leaf for scale. That leaf above is a brazilian pennywort leaf. Some portion of the now 7 counted fry are eating based off the belly. Day 6 30MAR23 430pm 16 or so visible now. Seem to have paramecium bellys and possibly infusoria off the subwassertang Day 7 31 Mar 23 11am ish. Treating for hydra since one grabed a fry before it swam free. That has caused the slight haze. Approximately 30 fry visible in the ring today Edited March 31, 2023 by mountaintoppufferkeeper 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) Holy Subwass… Edited March 30, 2023 by Fish Folk 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaintoppufferkeeper Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) On 3/29/2023 at 6:43 PM, Fish Folk said: Holy Subwass… Lol the puffers farm it up here ... so much of it in a few tanks it carpets for me Edited March 30, 2023 by mountaintoppufferkeeper 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXInkedPhoenixX Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I LOVE my Subwassertang. It's such a neat plant for so many reasons. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaintoppufferkeeper Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 Puffer proof in all the tanks so far 🙂 my favorite for most situations 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllFishNoBrakes Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Congrats! So dope! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardedbillygoat1975 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Note to self subwassertang and puffers mix, who knew?! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaintoppufferkeeper Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 On 3/30/2023 at 1:11 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said: Note to self subwassertang and puffers mix, who knew?! The hairy puffers are probably better at growing it than anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The endler guy Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 On 3/29/2023 at 8:37 PM, mountaintoppufferkeeper said: The project has officially begun now. Egg collection was nearly impossible I was not really ready for it first round so grabbed the subwassertang and put it i to a german breeding ring floating in an empty 60 breeder. Still learning and the initial 6 or more will be invaluable to me to get better for the next group. Adjustments to wild group tank to follow for the next try and hopefully get more eggs to start. Day 0 March 24 2023 at 134 pm up here Today day 5 March 29th 2023 at 530pm to 615 pm @Preston John they are amazingly small in person. Way smaller than the palustris fry were. 5 days to free swimming at 9,100 feet seems like the altitude doesnt change the development so far. Day 6 0432/432am Thats a normal sized subwassertang leaf for scale. That leaf above is a brazilian pennywort leaf. Some portion of the now 7 counted fry are eating based off the belly. Have you tried breeding Amazon puffers? On 3/30/2023 at 6:40 AM, mountaintoppufferkeeper said: The hairy puffers are probably better at growing it than anyone Hairy puffers can probably be with any plant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaintoppufferkeeper Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 On 3/30/2023 at 6:07 AM, The endler guy said: Have you tried breeding Amazon puffers? Hairy puffers can probably be with any plant! I have not tried the amazon puffers the faster growth of the teeth and the planktonic larval stage is not something I have set up for yet but never say never on that one. Yes, the hairy puffer colony they do well with plants but the subwassertang takes off in that tank to the point that I have generally pulled a gallon ziplock bag worth out of that 75 every two weeks. the benefit for me is they can bite it and it just makes more with no visible damage vs most plants where you can see the bite and damage. The hairys are with anubias, Brazilian pennywort (that I run as a floater), and subwassertang. Those seem to be the best options up here on the mountain 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The endler guy Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 On 3/30/2023 at 8:22 AM, mountaintoppufferkeeper said: I have not tried the amazon puffers the faster growth of the teeth and the planktonic larval stage is not something I have set up for yet but never say never on that one. I feel captive breed Amazon puffers would make them soooooo much more successful in aquaria, eliminates wild-caught problems and importing issues I really hope some one can breed them because a huge tank with a colony of them would be AWESOME!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaintoppufferkeeper Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 I would expect that as well. It would be a cool project with the larval stage challenges involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The endler guy Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 On 3/30/2023 at 8:35 AM, mountaintoppufferkeeper said: I would expect that as well. It would be a cool project with the larval stage challenges involved. What entails the larval stage? Is it for both of the species considered Amazon puffers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaintoppufferkeeper Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 On 3/30/2023 at 8:36 AM, The endler guy said: What entails the larval stage? Is it for both of the species considered Amazon puffers? Disclaimer I have never done this and am a super newbie on the larval stage. My limited understanding is that they are minimally developed "almost fry" and not quite eggs that float on or suspend in the current. Some good studies are out there on this species and topic. The gist is the Colomesus asellus, and I would assume any Colomesus puffer, has a spawning process similar to the saltwater puffers with the larval stage of development. In their case it appears they use rising water larval drift during the rainy season to disperse larvae into the flood plains and along the banks of the river. Im not well versed in what seems to be a saltwater process in freshwater. I believe : the first hurdle in the aquarium would be to collect the ichthyoplankton/larvae and not filter it out of the tank. My assumption would be to run a larvae trap from salt water and no filtration whatever night spawning would occur to make it work. the second to concentrate them to feed microscopic foods for a period while still maintaining water parameters. Once develop into fry and can start to eat more reliably raise them with the regular puffer challenges of food available vs puffers in need of that food. references: colomesus asellus breeding - Google Scholar Transport of larval fish in the Amazon - Araujo‐Lima - 1998 - Journal of Fish Biology - Wiley Online Library Natural selection in the water: freshwater invasion and adaptation by water colour in the Amazonian pufferfish - COOKE - 2012 - Journal of Evolutionary Biology - Wiley Online Library Drift of Colomesus asellus (Teleostei : Tetraodontidae) larvae in the Amazon river- fdi:43866- Horizon (ird.fr) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The endler guy Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 On 3/30/2023 at 11:30 AM, mountaintoppufferkeeper said: Disclaimer I have never done this and am a super newbie on the larval stage. My limited understanding is that they are minimally developed "almost fry" and not quite eggs that float on or suspend in the current. Some good studies are out there on this species and topic. The gist is the Colomesus asellus, and I would assume any Colomesus puffer, has a spawning process similar to the saltwater puffers with the larval stage of development. In their case it appears they use rising water larval drift during the rainy season to disperse larvae into the flood plains and along the banks of the river. Im not well versed in what seems to be a saltwater process in freshwater. I believe : the first hurdle in the aquarium would be to collect the ichthyoplankton/larvae and not filter it out of the tank. My assumption would be to run a larvae trap from salt water and no filtration whatever night spawning would occur to make it work. the second to concentrate them to feed microscopic foods for a period while still maintaining water parameters. Once develop into fry and can start to eat more reliably raise them with the regular puffer challenges of food available vs puffers in need of that food. references: colomesus asellus breeding - Google Scholar Transport of larval fish in the Amazon - Araujo‐Lima - 1998 - Journal of Fish Biology - Wiley Online Library Natural selection in the water: freshwater invasion and adaptation by water colour in the Amazonian pufferfish - COOKE - 2012 - Journal of Evolutionary Biology - Wiley Online Library Drift of Colomesus asellus (Teleostei : Tetraodontidae) larvae in the Amazon river- fdi:43866- Horizon (ird.fr) Can Amazon puffers live in brackish? anyway I don’t want to clog your journal cool stuff none the less! maybe a giant tank with a colony of Congo puffers would be cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaintoppufferkeeper Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 On 3/30/2023 at 11:41 AM, The endler guy said: Can Amazon puffers live in brackish? anyway I don’t want to clog your journal cool stuff none the less! maybe a giant tank with a colony of Congo puffers would be cool I havent kept them but full fresh as far as I am aware. Seems like the related and larger Colomesus psittacus is brackish /salt though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry the fish keeper Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 That is a LOT of babies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaintoppufferkeeper Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 Put in some vinegar eels in addition to the paramecium on the 430pm feeding. About 16 fry visible currently 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaintoppufferkeeper Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 Day 7 31 March 23 mid day A little over 30 today 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineSong Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 Congratulations, and fascinating video! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaintoppufferkeeper Posted April 1, 2023 Author Share Posted April 1, 2023 Day 8 1 April 23 mid day Im not sure if they are eating the vinegar eels yet but still adding them in just in case they are. This is one eating paramecium Two hunting 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSwissAquarist Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 Huge congrats to you @mountaintoppufferkeeper!!!!!!!!!!! I see another breeder of the year award coming your way. 🥳🥳🥳 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaintoppufferkeeper Posted April 1, 2023 Author Share Posted April 1, 2023 Thanks kindly @TheSwissAquarist. Ill give the winner a run for their money at a minimum 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveO Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 This is truly an awesome accomplishment. I am excited to follow the fry developments. Best wishes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountaintoppufferkeeper Posted April 4, 2023 Author Share Posted April 4, 2023 Day 9 2 April 23 evening Day 10 3 April 23 Going strong so far. My camera doesnt quite catch the food but does catch the feeding. The fry coming right to left snags some sort of something in the water either paramecium or some other infusoria type creature. The fry facing down in the center feeds upwards Baby brine is still too big for them it seems but a good size comparison. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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