Jump to content

Recommended Posts

On 1/12/2024 at 12:31 AM, Matthew J said:

Perfect! And another question. When it says 'rinse' after the 12 hours, does this mean to rinse under running tap water? And for the 30 minutes in regular water, is tap water fine? Should it be dechlorinated?

I just shake the plants off and drop them into the tank.  The carbon dioxide gasses off leaving only water behind. That’s one of the wonderful things about RR. It leaves no harmful residue. 
 

I only rinse when killing algae to remove as much dead algae as possible.  
 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/12/2024 at 6:40 AM, Guppysnail said:

I just shake the plants off and drop them into the tank.  The carbon dioxide gasses off leaving only water behind. That’s one of the wonderful things about RR. It leaves no harmful residue. 
 

I only rinse when killing algae to remove as much dead algae as possible.  
 

 

The only thing I was really worried about was significant pH change from the seltzer if there were a ton of treated plants going into a tiny tank, or excess chlorine from a ton of plants dragging heavily chlorinated, shocked water going into a tiny tank.  I’m paranoid about giving some blanket recommendations without knowing more details.

I also usually just shake the plants off, or quick rinse to clear debris if I’m treating algae.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

What are you supposed to do after the 30 minute "rinse" i can find literally nothing in the hundreds of pages of documentation that says what to do after that. Can you leave it or does the water need to be changed again before resuming normal use? 

I'm confused, what's the reason for the Patent? There's nothing proprietary used here, it's a great idea but doesn't require anything unique so trying to profit off it seems odd. Is there another reason for a patent other than trying to keep others from making money off the idea? 

Please help me understand. 

Also, WHY IS NO ONE MAKING VIDEOS ABOUT THIS ON YOUTUBE?  All the videos I am finding don't show any real details, results, or instructions. This should be the biggest thing since silicone. 

Edited by TJOBrien
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/22/2024 at 11:30 AM, TJOBrien said:

What are you supposed to do after the 30 minute "rinse" i can find literally nothing in the hundreds of pages of documentation that says what to do after that. Can you leave it or does the water need to be changed again before resuming normal use? 

I'm confused, what's the reason for the Patent? There's nothing proprietary used here, it's a great idea but doesn't require anything unique so trying to profit off it seems odd. Is there another reason for a patent other than trying to keep others from making money off the idea? 

Please help me understand. 

Also, WHY IS NO ONE MAKING VIDEOS ABOUT THIS ON YOUTUBE?  All the videos I am finding don't show any real details, results, or instructions. This should be the biggest thing since silicone. 

Hi, Reverse Respiration took about 6 months to design. The ultimate approach was preceded by several other “non-chemical plant sterilization” techniques which included ultrasound and electrolysis.

Carbonated water was originally added to both asphyxiate the pests and to equalize the internal pressures and protect the plant from our more caustic approaches like ultrasound. Ultimately, we found that carbonated water alone achieved our goals alone and we abandoned the other technologies.

However, the experiment ended up costing thousands of dollars with months of breeding parasites, buying plants, chemicals, hardware and shipping as well as expensive machinery such as electrolysis, power supplies and ultrasonic cleaners. It was funded by 3rd parties and so the intellectual rights are privately owned although they are free to the general public for use. To that end, the patent filing was largely to secure the rights of ownership and proper accreditation rather than a marketing goal.

Insofar as the final stage goes, I believe everyone just installs the plants after the final stage as it’s just water by then anyway. In fact, I think people place them directly in the tank from the seltzer which suffices as the "anaerobic kill-off" final stage.  If I’m wrong about that, please someone correct me.

RR is spreading greatly, and to date, the website has seen over 40,000 tests so far. I imagine private videos will be made over time. We’re hoping to see videos made, but hopefully done professionally.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/22/2024 at 2:30 PM, TJOBrien said:

What are you supposed to do after the 30 minute "rinse" i can find literally nothing in the hundreds of pages of documentation that says what to do after that.

I place the plants directly in the tank after the seltzer to suffice as the final stage “rinse” in aerated water. 
 

On 1/22/2024 at 4:30 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

WHY IS NO ONE MAKING VIDEOS ABOUT THIS ON YOUTUBE?

We are not YouTubers. We are hobbyists. Just as @dasaltemelosguysaid we only wanted to provide a chemical free, SAFE, method of treatment that was very easy to use for even a day 1 aquarist wanting to start with plants but avoid introducing snails, parasites or negative bacteria.
 

We never intended to profit only help other aquarists.  Reverse Respiration is so amazing and easy word of mouth alone served to spread the information. I have also done club presentations to help inform folks. We felt no need to advertise beyond making the information available.  
 

RR being free to all we felt no need to spend more money to advertise via YouTube. 
I am glad you found this so amazing. 
 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

One interesting thing is that Cory/ACO don't seem to mention it in their YouTube videos.  There seems to have been many opportunities, but I've never heard it mentioned.

On a side note, I've used it and it worked for me... 🙂

 

  • Like 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/22/2024 at 3:01 PM, Galabar said:

One interesting thing is that Cory/ACO don't seem to mention it in their YouTube videos.  There seems to have been many opportunities, but I've never heard it mentioned.

On a side note, I've used it and it worked for me... 🙂

 

💯 EXACTLY! 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/22/2024 at 6:01 PM, Galabar said:

One interesting thing is that Cory/ACO don't seem to mention it in their YouTube videos

I would assume it’s because they test everything extensively before sharing it with YouTube.  They are always inundated with products to test to go to market that have potential to make money.  ACO is a business.

There is no profit to be made on RR.  They would need to test hundreds of plants themselves as is their fashion. It’s why we trust ACO so much.  With no money to be made and to little time to test the plethora of things they want to test it makes perfect sense this was never mentioned. 
Cory did however move it out of journals and into community resources and link the easier to read format website at the top of the original post to make it easily accessible to everyone. 

On 1/22/2024 at 8:12 PM, TJOBrien said:

💯 EXACTLY! 

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recently gave RR a try with some new plants which worked out because my normal quarantine tank is currently my ramshorn grow tank/back up daphnia culture. I ended up receiving a lot more plants then I ordered 😁, so I didn't have time to really look them over for pests. I did find 2 small snails on 2 of the plants before I began and removed them.  Work and homework kept me busy, so my RR period went well past 12 hours and closer to 24.  At the end while replacing the water to soak them in tap water for 30 mins I found several snail egg sacks, the eggs inside looked dead and had turned white.   

 

Not the best images I know but I thought I'd share. Looks like a good sign to me.

 

IMG20240126220412.jpg

IMG20240126220406.jpg

Edited by TheChosenOne
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/27/2024 at 10:18 AM, TheChosenOne said:

I recently gave RR a try with some new plants which worked out because my normal quarantine tank is currently my ramshorn grow tank/back up daphnia culture. I ended up receiving a lot more plants then I ordered 😁, so I didn't have time to really look them over for pests. I did find 2 small snails on 2 of the plants before I began and removed them.  Work and homework kept me busy, so my RR period went well past 12 hours and closer to 24.  At the end while replacing the water to soak them in tap water for 30 mins I found several snail egg sacks, the eggs inside looked dead and had turned white.   

 

Not the best images I know but I thought I'd share. Looks like a good sign to me.

 

IMG20240126220412.jpg

IMG20240126220406.jpg

I used RR in testing on plants from my bladder snail breeding tank. They looked just like yours after RR.  I returned them to a bare bottom tank with no snails. After 2-3 months I never had a snail or pest sighting. I do wipe them off now after RR. I figure no reason to just let them decay in a tank. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...

OMG!!!!

I have a 40g breeder community tank, and have in the past few weeks had an outbreak of staghorn algae. I have tried manual removal, balancing nutrients and light exposure, and it just seemed to be getting a bit worse. I was hesitant to use any spot treatments, or anything chemical in nature, just because I always worry about the impacts on my fish and tank. My amazon swords and java ferns were covered. 

I found this post on the forums after searching for all sorts of solutions. The article is extremely in depth, but I do have a background in the sciences, and I couldn't believe the level of understanding and depth of the research involved. I HAD TO TRY IT!!

I used a giant storage tote (solid blue color), 10L of seltzer water, threw my plants in, added a weight to hold them under the surface, then placed the lid (but did not seal the container) on top, and covered with a blanket. 12h soak. I prepped a 5 gal bucket I normally use for water changes, and added a spare ACO sponge filter which has a built in air stone, to aerate the water. After the 12hr soak, I removed the plants, put them into the bucket, and placed an aquarium light (LED) over the top. Set a 30 min timer, and just let them soak.

When I pulled the plants out, I was ready to replant them into my tank. As soon as I put them into the water, and under my light, I could see all of the previously black-ish algae was either a burgundy-red or a pale white-ish color. I have 3 bushynose plecos, 3 mollies, and 2 amano shrimp in the tank, so I didn't manually remove any of the algae, I wanted to see if my fish would clean up the dead stuff. They either couldn't or wouldn't eat the staghorn previously, but I had read that once it dies, the clean up crews will take care of it, or it will fall off and decompose.

I couldn't BELIEVE the results from this process. I am ever so grateful to ACO and the community, this forum, and the researchers who gave us this amazing information. I will continue to update as this week progresses.

  • Thanks 1
  • Love 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/26/2024 at 10:48 AM, JayStu11 said:

OMG!!!!

I have a 40g breeder community tank, and have in the past few weeks had an outbreak of staghorn algae. I have tried manual removal, balancing nutrients and light exposure, and it just seemed to be getting a bit worse. I was hesitant to use any spot treatments, or anything chemical in nature, just because I always worry about the impacts on my fish and tank. My amazon swords and java ferns were covered. 

I found this post on the forums after searching for all sorts of solutions. The article is extremely in depth, but I do have a background in the sciences, and I couldn't believe the level of understanding and depth of the research involved. I HAD TO TRY IT!!

I used a giant storage tote (solid blue color), 10L of seltzer water, threw my plants in, added a weight to hold them under the surface, then placed the lid (but did not seal the container) on top, and covered with a blanket. 12h soak. I prepped a 5 gal bucket I normally use for water changes, and added a spare ACO sponge filter which has a built in air stone, to aerate the water. After the 12hr soak, I removed the plants, put them into the bucket, and placed an aquarium light (LED) over the top. Set a 30 min timer, and just let them soak.

When I pulled the plants out, I was ready to replant them into my tank. As soon as I put them into the water, and under my light, I could see all of the previously black-ish algae was either a burgundy-red or a pale white-ish color. I have 3 bushynose plecos, 3 mollies, and 2 amano shrimp in the tank, so I didn't manually remove any of the algae, I wanted to see if my fish would clean up the dead stuff. They either couldn't or wouldn't eat the staghorn previously, but I had read that once it dies, the clean up crews will take care of it, or it will fall off and decompose.

I couldn't BELIEVE the results from this process. I am ever so grateful to ACO and the community, this forum, and the researchers who gave us this amazing information. I will continue to update as this week progresses.

I’m so happy you had success. Any leaves that were dying from the algae will melt off but you should see new growth happening quickly. We noticed most plants have a quick growth spurt from the co2. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

I just discovered this...  and joined the forum strictly for this thread. 

 

I started experimenting with using CO2 to disinfect plants and kill pest critters back in 2009. I posted about it and some other stuff I was doing while I was learning Arabic at the defense language institute(I'll post the link below).  I kinda dropped off the face of the planet after that...  I deployed to Afghanistan, Syria, and most countries in the northern half of Africa(there is always a war in Africa).  so, this last decade has been busy to say the least.  I never really got to experiment further with the stuff I was doing back then.   never really had the time.

 

but, my combat days are behind me now and I would like to get back to it.  

 

I absolutely love the work y'all have done.  

https://www.plantedtank.net/threads/tricks.568466/

Edited by Auban
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 4
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

In the coming weeks I'm planting out my new 88 gallon. Before I committed to a large order going through this process I bought a couple plants from my LFS supplied by Dustin's plants. 

They started beautiful, and came out of the process just as beautiful. I didn't notice any small eggs on the leaves or snails in the lfs tank. But I'll be moving forward with this technique. 

Once I get to the end I will test my old plants that have plenty of snails and some BBA.

The plants I did cycle: Bacopa carolina,  Hydrophilia cordata

after the first week I see nothing crawling around

Edited by Lonkley
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Well, it's been a couple weeks.  I planted an amazon sword, red ozelot sword, sri lanka crypt, ludwigia ovalis, rotala orange juice (the scientific name im sure), anubias barteri, anubias nanaanubias nana golden, anubias nana petite.

All of them came out of the process and healthy as going in.  The ozelot appears to have melted heavily but i chalk that to conversion. There have been no snails after 2 weeks.  Since these were from my lfs in 3 different tanks. I have to believe that snails exist, unless they have a stealth loach on duty.  Also I think it killed any algae that may have been on them.

Last night my new tank finished cycling so I moved everyone over and I pulled all my plants from the old tank.  There is quite a bit of BBA on them and definitely snails. This morning, I don't see any snails, but the bba is still laughing contently on the plants. Not a change of color, can't rub it off by hand, just seems the same as before treatment.

Since the main goal was to remove snails, I consider it a success for now.  I only say for now because I don't know how long it takes pest eggs to hatch.  Disappointed the bba didn't die, since a couple of those plants I wanted to put into the new tank, but I don't want to carry the bba into a new tank.

ETA: That's pretty slick that the plants were automatically hyperlinked to the store.  As a coder, I appreciate such little details, now I'm curious if it'll do it for all products.

 

PXL_20240501_043935614.jpg

Edited by Lonkley
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/1/2024 at 12:50 PM, Lonkley said:

but the bba is still laughing contently on the plants

It should turn white pink or purple witching 24 hours.  The only time it did not for me was I had a bottle of seltzer I opened fresh but did not get a big blast of spray. I suspect that bottle was slightly flat and did not work as it should. Bba takes 9-12 hours in fresh non flat soda to die. The bba will remain in the plant but it will be dead indicated by a color change. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I don't think it's laughing, but it's not mortally wounded. 

This is after 15 hour soak, then 48 hours in oxygenated quarantine tank. 

It was an interesting experiment, and might be good when caught early. Or maybe it needs a second treatment. These guys are going to be disposed of though.

PXL_20240503_145655823.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Will this work with floating plants? I kind of want to get red root floaters but obviously I cant submerge it without killing it. I just want to kill any snail or eggs. I mean I guess the roots and underside would be covered, but do snail lay eggs on top?

 

Edited by Lonkley
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/6/2024 at 5:22 PM, Lonkley said:

Will this work with floating plants? I kind of want to get red root floaters but obviously I cant submerge it without killing it. I just want to kill any snail or eggs. I mean I guess the roots and underside would be covered, but do snail lay eggs on top?

 

I’ve put floaters in a media bag and weighted down. I usually end with 75% mortality in floaters though. They do not like being submerged at all. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/6/2024 at 4:22 PM, Lonkley said:

Will this work with floating plants? I kind of want to get red root floaters but obviously I cant submerge it without killing it. I just want to kill any snail or eggs. I mean I guess the roots and underside would be covered, but do snail lay eggs on top?

 

If your only goal is pest clearance and not algae clearance then 30 minute soak is enough.  You’re still going to lose some red root floaters as they are one of the more sensitive floaters about being submerged.  If you can quarantine them for a few weeks and pluck out any snails that appear, you’re going to get rid of the snails.  There could still be hydra, but planaria are very unlikely in floaters.  You could probably eliminate hydra by only floating them on the seltzer vs submerging.  Snails would probably be cleared also by floating them on seltzer.  I might even do a sealed container (just floating, not submerged) so the CO2 is contained above the surface for a better shot at killing snails.  If you only float them, I would give it at least an hour.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have tried this method with success. But, after reading all your research I decided to try something a little bigger in my fish room. @Guppysnail have you done any research on keeping high CO2 levels with other methods? 

Picture below is my 45 gallon with CO2 injection that I've been keeping right at the limit of the yellow color on my drop checker. I had a bad infestation of "Mini Ramshorn" the flat tiny ones that i think are ugly and don't clean nearly as well as regular Ramshorn. It seams to not kill the eggs even with really high co2 for a couple days in complete darkness.

Is there something else key in the seltzer? Or should flooding the tank with CO2 kill them? 

I decided to just lower it to the mostly yellow stage and keep it there for a week. I've had a few new snails hatch and basically go straight to the top and get out of the water then die. 

I have been adjusting the CO2 up and down as soon as I see green on the drop checker. See picture. 

Thoughts, anyone? 

Also attached a picture of my breading setup that I plan to drain into my planned tank for water changes. 

 

20240507_101620.jpg

20240507_102526.jpg

20240501_123626.jpg

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The seltzer works in a couple ways:  First by pressure of the carbonation vs. just straight CO2 levels in the water, and also by a massive and abrupt pH change vs. sustained low pH.  You are likely to get some effect from extremely high CO2 levels and it might be enough to knock out most animal pests, but very unlikely to be enough to knock out algae.  If you can mostly seal up the tank (at least enough that very high levels of CO2 are held above and in the water), then you might do a decent job of knocking out all animal pests.  You don’t need to hold pressure, just stop other air circulation - no regular air pumps running, for instance.  There weren’t any tests run on just adding CO2 to the water as the tests were not done with CO2 systems (at least not that I remember, @dasaltemelosguy can correct me if I’m wrong) but they were experimenting with different known plant disinfectants, then eventually trying seltzer water because of information @dasaltemelosguy found.  He and @Guppysnail tried it, it worked for snails, etc, then they started testing against algae.  She noticed the other plant benefits, and the rest is history.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/7/2024 at 10:47 AM, Odd Duck said:

The seltzer works in a couple ways:  First by pressure of the carbonation vs. just straight CO2 levels in the water, and also by a massive and abrupt pH change vs. sustained low pH.  You are likely to get some effect from extremely high CO2 levels and it might be enough to knock out most animal pests, but very unlikely to be enough to knock out algae.  If you can mostly seal up the tank (at least enough that very high levels of CO2 are held above and in the water), then you might do a decent job of knocking out all animal pests.  You don’t need to hold pressure, just stop other air circulation - no regular air pumps running, for instance.  There weren’t any tests run on just adding CO2 to the water as the tests were not done with CO2 systems (at least not that I remember, @dasaltemelosguy can correct me if I’m wrong) but they were experimenting with different known plant disinfectants, then eventually trying seltzer water because of information @dasaltemelosguy found.  He and @Guppysnail tried it, it worked for snails, etc, then they started testing against algae.  She noticed the other plant benefits, and the rest is history.

I actually did that with my moss and guppy grass from the GSAS Auction. I used a 66 liter tote with a lid and cranked the CO2, like 10 BBS basically a steam of bubbles. I did this for 36 hours because I figured it would take some time to completely dissipate the oxygen. 

The lid is not air tight but did stop air flow. All the snails and algae died, INCLUDING Black Beard Algae. The BBA in my "Jaxa" Moss did not die right away, but it's dead now. Not sure if that was a typo by the seller, but it does kinda look like Xmas Moss. LOL. 

It did kill the moss right where the BBA was, which was weird. As the BBA died and turned brown and my fish ate it, I noticed that right where it was attached had turned brown. See picture. The rest of the moss looks amazing though. 

Guppy Grass did not fair too well but I've always had issues with that stuff surviving. Not sure what I do wrong there but it was no worse with the CO2. I bought twice as much as in the picture below. 

20240507_110746.jpg

20240507_111332.jpg

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good information!  Adds to our baseline knowledge!

I’ve stopped wondering why certain plants do or don’t do well for certain people or in certain tanks.  I’ve had certain plants do fantastic in one tank and fail spectacularly or just slowly dwindle in the tank right next to it.  I got some hornwort from somebody that did fine in a bucket but I was never brave enough to finally put it in a tank after I’ve had 3 tanks get polluted by hornwort and had it fail even more times but such small amounts it didn’t ruin the tank.  I had tried to convince myself to try it one more time but I just couldn’t bring myself to do it!  People around here swear by hornwort but I swear at it!  😝 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...