Reverse Respiration

[HelplessNewbie]

I might have killed off guppy grass and some hornwort with a 16 hour reverse respiration soak. I waited a couple weeks to see if they would make it after the RR. How long should I soak these two floating plants next time? Is 4 hours enough?

On 6/15/2022 at 3:25 PM, dasaltemelosguy said:

2-Cover the top with a towel or other loose-fitting lid (should not be airtight) and place in the dark for 12 hours.

If I were to place my plants in resealable bags, all seltzer, no air, won't that eliminate the "cover loosely" per instruction above? What is the reason for not making it airtight?

[Guppysnail]

On 8/15/2023 at 12:14 PM, HelplessNewbie said:

I might have killed off guppy grass and some hornwort with a 16 hour reverse respiration soak. I waited a couple weeks to see if they would make it after the RR. How long should I soak these two floating plants next time? Is 4 hours enough?

If I were to place my plants in resealable bags, all seltzer, no air, won't that eliminate the "cover loosely" per instruction above? What is the reason for not making it airtight?

Too much pressure builds when sealed and crushes plants. 
 

Several things could have affected your outcome. Guppy grass and hornwort are more delicate.

-excess time in soak. If you were only seeking pest elimination you do not need the full 12 hours. 1-3 hours should do the trick 
-If they were not in great condition (ie stressed from shipping and not allowed recovery time, excess algae means the plant is already struggling or just visibly not doing great) the seltzer will impact the plant as it’s vascular system is not functioning properly to protect the plant. 

 

- 

[HelplessNewbie]

On 8/15/2023 at 12:22 PM, Guppysnail said:

Too much pressure builds when sealed and crushes plants. 
 

Several things could have affected your outcome. Guppy grass and hornwort are more delicate.

-excess time in soak. If you were only seeking pest elimination you do not need the full 12 hours. 1-3 hours should do the trick 
-If they were not in great condition (ie stressed from shipping and not allowed recovery time, excess algae means the plant is already struggling or just visibly not doing great) the seltzer will impact the plant as it’s vascular system is not functioning properly to protect the plant. 

 

- 

I sure overdid it. I will do 1-3 hrs next time for delicate plants.

Anacharis can soak longer, right?

[Guppysnail]

On 8/15/2023 at 1:29 PM, HelplessNewbie said:

I sure overdid it. I will do 1-3 hrs next time for delicate plants.

Anacharis can soak longer, right?

Anacharis is also sensitive 

[HelplessNewbie]

On 8/15/2023 at 2:19 PM, Guppysnail said:

Anacharis is also sensitive

Oh, I am glad I asked! Thank you for saving me.

[JChristophersAdventures]

@HelplessNewbie You also might want to look into plant tissue cultures as these are produced and sold free of pest and pathogens. They start smaller and can be a bit more expensive, but can save you some hassles if you are seriously into avoiding snails, etc.

Edited August 15, 2023 by JChristophersAdventures

[HelplessNewbie]

On 4/6/2023 at 3:57 PM, Guppysnail said:

pogo octopus

How long should I soak the pogo for? Is this one of the delicate ones that should only be soaked 1 hour?

[Guppysnail]

On 8/19/2023 at 4:52 PM, HelplessNewbie said:

How long should I soak the pogo for? Is this one of the delicate ones that should only be soaked 1 hour?

I’ve not tried pogo. If it’s only for pest removal same time frames apply as the others. 1-3 hrs. Longer durations are for algae. 

[Cinnebuns]

I know RR will kill beneficial bacteria so doing full tank isn't generally wise. What if the tank has experienced a full crash anyway and currently has no animals in it?  Would there be issues doing RR?  Sorry I haven't read every comment but has this been tested?  

@Guppysnail

[Guppysnail]

On 8/23/2023 at 4:58 PM, Cinnebuns said:

I know RR will kill beneficial bacteria so doing full tank isn't generally wise. What if the tank has experienced a full crash anyway and currently has no animals in it?  Would there be issues doing RR?  Sorry I haven't read every comment but has this been tested?  

@Guppysnail

If you drain the tank completely and fill it with seltzer it should work. This means if there is substrate you would need to get the water to below the substrate. 
It has been discussed but not tried as of yet. You would need to turn HOB or canister off and clean those separately to be certain nothing bad is in them. Internal filters including sponges can be left in the tank but off so you are not aerating the seltzer. 
I suggest covering with Saran Wrap since you will not be able to get 100% of the water out to increase chances of success. 

[Cinnebuns]

On 8/23/2023 at 4:43 PM, Guppysnail said:

If you drain the tank completely and fill it with seltzer it should work. This means if there is substrate you would need to get the water to below the substrate. 
It has been discussed but not tried as of yet. You would need to turn HOB or canister off and clean those separately to be certain nothing bad is in them. Internal filters including sponges can be left in the tank but off so you are not aerating the seltzer. 
I suggest covering with Saran Wrap since you will not be able to get 100% of the water out to increase chances of success. 

Could I place the HOB filter and media inside the tank with the seltzer?  That's what I was thinking. Also, in terms of getting it under the substrate, would it be sufficient to stir it while pouring maybe?

On 8/23/2023 at 4:43 PM, Guppysnail said:

has been discussed but not tried as of yet.

Maybe this is a good opportunity for me to be a guinea pig lol

I might be needing more bottles of seltzer than the store currently has lol

[Guppysnail]

On 8/23/2023 at 6:30 PM, Cinnebuns said:

HOB filter and media inside the tank with the seltzer?

Media yes. Filter I would not risk the motor the filters are to easy to just clean with hydrogen peroxide 

 

On 8/23/2023 at 6:30 PM, Cinnebuns said:

would it be sufficient to stir it while pouring maybe?

You would still be diluting the seltzer. Stirring has no impact. The seltzer will penetrate. 
 

@dasaltemelosguy how much water can be left in and still work?  @Cinnebunshow big is the tank and how deep what type substrate 

[Cinnebuns]

On 8/23/2023 at 5:39 PM, Guppysnail said:

Media yes. Filter I would not risk the motor the filters are to easy to just clean with hydrogen peroxide 

 

You would still be diluting the seltzer. Stirring has no impact. The seltzer will penetrate. 
 

@dasaltemelosguy how much water can be left in and still work?  @Cinnebunshow big is the tank and how deep what type substrate 

I apologize for now nasty it looks. It's been sitting for over a week now no animals and just the sponge filter running. 

20H roughly 1.25-1.5 inches on average substrate. Substrate is fine gravel. Aqueon 20 HOB filter and ACO medium sponge filter. 

Very covered in algae at the moment but at the time of the crash there was some but not nearly as much algae. There had been both regular and mini ramshorn as well as new Zealand mud snails in the tank at the time of the crash but I can't seem to find a single one now so they may have all died. However I don't doubt there are eggs looking for the right time to hatch. 

Plants aren't doing well now because of the lack of care as well as algae growth. I also just cleared a bunch of duckweed that was blocking light. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Cinnebuns

[Odd Duck]

You would either need to have a submersible type motor or be able to remove the motor for an HOB that doesn’t have the motor inside the tank (like a Penguin Pro or one of the Whispers that has the motor inside the tank).  Probably easier to clean the HOB with peroxide outside the tank.  Soak all the removable parts in 50% peroxide, scrub well with straight peroxide and a toothbrush, stand it up and fill it with 50% peroxide to soak, etc.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Tank doesn’t look so bad, @Cinnebuns. Do you have an idea why it crashed?

[Cinnebuns]

On 8/24/2023 at 4:35 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Tank doesn’t look so bad, @Cinnebuns. Do you have an idea why it crashed?

Yes. I did directions in dosing meds wrong as well as 3 different meds in like a month. 

I called my grocery store and ordered 5 cases (40 2 liter bottles) of seltzer. Since nobody has tried this I will try to take as many pics and document as much as I can and post results. Too bad the snails seem to have died on their own so we can't test that but I almost guarantee there are eggs. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/24/2023 at 8:30 PM, Cinnebuns said:

Yes. I did directions in dosing meds wrong as well as 3 different meds in like a month. 

I called my grocery store and ordered 5 cases (40 2 liter bottles) of seltzer. Since nobody has tried this I will try to take as many pics and document as much as I can and post results. Too bad the snails seem to have died on their own so we can't test that but I almost guarantee there are eggs. 

Thanks for being the Guinea pig. I am curious to see how RR works on a tank. Is the main goal algae removal, or are you trying to kill planaria or something else?

Or sneggs?

[Cinnebuns]

On 8/24/2023 at 7:53 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Thanks for being the Guinea pig. I am curious to see how RR works on a tank. Is the main goal algae removal, or are you trying to kill planaria or something else?

Or sneggs?

The original reason honestly was snails. I don't mind them in most tanks but the mini ramshorns migrated here and I cannot stand the minis. Now, I figure I'm gonna play it safe and do it anyway because I know from experience their eggs can wait around for conditions to change. It doesn't hurt to also start fresh on algae. I'm not sure if the brown coating the tank right now is algae or mulm but it not being touched in awhile the brown is gross right now. 

[Cinnebuns]

Apparently the snails didn't die off. Not sure why the population is so low that I thought they had. Here's a regular and a mini in the same pic. The regulars I don't mind but I hate minis. There's also new Zealand mud snails in here is had JUST gotten in on plants. I'm actually partially considering grabbing a few to save them if I can find any. 

Here's a combo of staghorn and the brown stuff coating the entire tank. 

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Cinnebuns

[Guppysnail]

@Cinnebuns it was what I thought. If there is water left in the tank and not drained below the substrate it will most likely dilute the seltzer to the point it does not work. Sorry. 
 

Even sparkling water will not work since the pressure is a bit lower and ph a bit higher. 

[Cinnebuns]

 

On 8/24/2023 at 8:29 PM, Guppysnail said:

@Cinnebuns it was what I thought. If there is water left in the tank and not drained below the substrate it will most likely dilute the seltzer to the point it does not work. Sorry. 

Oh I was going to drain it first and fill with only seltzer. It's just filed for now to keep the plants alive. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Cinnebuns

[Guppysnail]

On 8/24/2023 at 9:30 PM, Cinnebuns said:

 

Oh I was going to drain it first and fill with only seltzer. It's just filed for now to keep the plants alive. 

That’s fine but you need to remove the water from the substrate as well. Move the substrate to the side a bit and tip the tank until all water drains to the clear area to drain the remaining water from the tank. 

[Cinnebuns]

Are you saying to also dab down the substrate to get it as dry as possible first?

On 8/24/2023 at 8:33 PM, Guppysnail said:

That’s fine but you need to remove the water from the substrate as well. Move the substrate to the side a bit and tip the tank until all water drains to the clear area to drain the remaining water from the tank. 

Jinx. Sounds good I can do that. 

[Cinnebuns]

Found 2 of the mud snails. Still not sure if imma save some or not. They are basically like MTS. 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 8/24/2023 at 9:39 PM, Cinnebuns said:

Found 2 of the mud snails. Still not sure if imma save some or not. They are basically like MTS. 

I think they are cute, hehe