Plants not doing so well. Help appreciated

[Starnz]

Hi all, 

Check out my anubias and Java fern. They’ve been doing downhill the last few weeks but are still sprouting new shoots. 

I use a fennex 24/7 light. Starts at 9am and daylight ends around 6pm. Its not on full light the whole time. I dose with Easy Green once a week with some iron. Anyone have an idea why the plants are looking so bad? 
Any feedback would be appreciated! 

[Guppysnail]

How long have you had them? Anubias and Java are often grown emerged (above water). Those leaves do not always convert or convert enough to start new growth. Once enough new growth grown submerged comes in my original leaves will sometimes die back. I just snip the old ones off at the rhizome. They do great afterwards. I’m not a plant expert though so this is my experience only not real knowledge that I researched. Best of luck. 

[Starnz]

On 1/6/2022 at 7:55 PM, Guppysnail said:

How long have you had them? Anubias and Java are often grown emerged (above water). Those leaves do not always convert or convert enough to start new growth. Once enough new growth grown submerged comes in my original leaves will sometimes die back. I just snip the old ones off at the rhizome. They do great afterwards. I’m not a plant expert though so this is my experience only not real knowledge that I researched. Best of luck. 

I've had the plants in my tank since last March. They've looked healthy until about the last month or so. 

[Torrey]

It looks like the light is on too long, and the plants started growing a bit of algae, and one of the tanks inhabitants ate the algae along with a little plant.

If you are not running CO2, I would recommend trying to increase your red lighting, and add a mid day siesta period (4 hours on, 4 hours off).

You can turn off filtration and aeration to apply H2O2 directly to the algae (I like using an infant syringe, and use the bare minimum of H2O2 to "paint" the algae. Please don't directly apply to any livestock, it can harm gills), then turn everything back on after 15 minutes. It softens the algae so the clean up crew can get rid of it for you. 

If you don't get any algae back, and no new holes in leaves, you solved the problem. If after 2 weeks there's no algae and there are new holes in your new growth, there's a deficiency that can easily be addressed.

I would address the algae first, before assuming the problem is nutrient related. 

[lefty o]

i agree, light is on too long. try 6 or 7 hours. less likely to grow green algae on the plants leaves that way.

[Patrick_G]

I’ve found that it can take Java Fern a long time to convert to full aquatic growth. I’d follow @Guppysnail’s advice and clip off the old, dying leaves. 
I’ve also read that Java Fern like extra potassium. I add a dose of API leaf zone along with Easy Green to give my fern a little potassium boost. It seems to work. 

[Starnz]

Thank you all for the info!! I'll give these suggestions a try! 

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi @Starnz

I don't believe that the duration of your photoperiod is the reason the plants are looking so poorly.  Yes, excessive light can be an issue and cause algae but it does not typically cause the necrosis of the older leaves that we see in the Java Fern, the interveinal chlorosis in the Anubias leaf in your first picture, nor the leaf tip curl in the other leaves of the Anubias.

Can you provide some more information please?  Specifically:
1)  pH of your tank
2) water hardness of your tank (dKH and dGH)
3) specifically are your dosing for your extra iron "with some iron"

Thank you, -Roy

[Starnz]

On 1/7/2022 at 6:14 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Starnz

I don't believe that the duration of your photoperiod is the reason the plants are looking so poorly.  Yes, excessive light can be an issue and cause algae but it does not typically cause the necrosis of the older leaves that we see in the Java Fern, the interveinal chlorosis in the Anubias leaf in your first picture, nor the leaf tip curl in the other leaves of the Anubias.

Can you provide some more information please?  Specifically:
1)  pH of your tank
2) water hardness of your tank (dKH and dGH)
3) specifically are your dosing for your extra iron "with some iron"

Thank you, -Roy

My tank pH is 7.0

Water is 120 GH, 80 KH

I usually use three pumps of easy iron once a week with my five pumps of easy green. 
 

let me know if you need anything else to help 

[Torrey]

On 1/7/2022 at 10:05 PM, Starnz said:

usually use three pumps of easy iron once a week with my five pumps of easy green.

What size is your tank?

I think that's probably a missing parameter.

[Starnz]

On 1/8/2022 at 12:13 AM, Torrey said:

What size is your tank?

I think that's probably a missing parameter.

45 gallon 

[Torrey]

On 1/8/2022 at 12:41 AM, Starnz said:

45 gallon 

@Seattle_Aquarist has many years more experience at successfully maintaining planted aquariums than I have. 

Until my BiL shared everything with me he learned from Dr Diana Walstad, any success I had with plants beyond hornwort, anachris, and swords was probably accidental. I primarily used pothos, spider plants and dracaena to keep nitrates down and was pleasantly surprised when anything else lived.

I did make a dirt bottom tank in the 70's to recreate the habitat of a nearby creek that was a success despite my "help"...

That's why I recommend the siesta period to anyone not using CO2. Not just because it has boosted my plant success stories, but because of how many other people have also seen a huge difference in their successes. 

Here's the chart I use for identification of plant deficiencies:

[Streetwise]

Organic soil siesta friend is listening.

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 1/7/2022 at 9:05 PM, Starnz said:

My tank pH is 7.0

Water is 120 GH, 80 KH

I usually use three pumps of easy iron once a week with my five pumps of easy green. 
 

let me know if you need anything else to help 

Hi @Starnz

With a pH of 7.0 only about 35% - 40% of the EDTA iron in the Easy Green is available to your plants which is likely causing the interveinal chlorosis I saw in your first picture.  I would suggest starting to dose Seachem Iron which is made from ferrous gluconate and is much easier for plants to uptake than EDTA when the pH is above 6.5.  Without sufficient available iron photosynthesis drops a which is how plants create sugars for energy and growth.  

Your hardness isn't bad with 4.5 dKH and 7.0 dGh however the curling under of the leaf tips of your Anubias could indicate a lack of calcium and the necrosis (deterioration) of the older leaves of the java fern could be the result of insufficient magnesium or potassium.  If it were my tank I would pick up a jar of Seachem Equilibrium and add 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons to your tank as an initial dose. 

Thereafter, when you do water changes, add 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons of new water added.  This will add about 27 ppm of potassium, 6 ppm of calcium, and 1.6 ppm of magnesium.  Now the hard part...............waiting.  DO NOT WATCH YOUR EXISTING LEAVES, THEY WILL NOT IMPROVE AND MAY CONTINUE TO DECLINE.  Instead, over the next 4-6 weeks watch the new leaves as they emerge, do they look healthier, greener, does your growth rate increase?  As the new leave mature do they stay healthy looking?  Then you are on the right path.  The dosage may need to be increased but this is a good dosing level to start with. 

Let us know how things progress, hope this helps! -Roy

Java Fern 'Trident'

Edited January 9, 2022 by Seattle_Aquarist

[Torrey]

On 1/8/2022 at 8:16 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

With a pH of 7.0 only about 35% - 40% of the ETDA iron in the Easy Green is available to your plants which is likely causing the interveinal chlorosis I saw in your first picture.  I would suggest starting to dose Seachem Iron which is made from ferrous gluconate and is much easier for plants to uptake than EDTA when the pH is above 6.5

You just solved my ongoing problem, thank you!!!!

My pH ranges 7.4 up to 8.2, and all my plants have dark veins and paler leaves indicating iron deficiency on my chart... no matter how much EasyGreen iron I add.

Thank you Roy!

 

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 1/9/2022 at 8:42 AM, Torrey said:

You just solved my ongoing problem, thank you!!!!

My pH ranges 7.4 up to 8.2, and all my plants have dark veins and paler leaves indicating iron deficiency on my chart... no matter how much EasyGreen iron I add.

Thank you Roy!

 

Hey Torrey,

Hopefully the suggestion puts you on the right track.  Remember to watch your new leaves as they emerge and mature to see if there is improvement......existing leaves will not improve.

Until I started dealing with aquatic plants I used to think that 'iron is iron' but during my 14 years with planted tanks I learned that was not the case.  There are several forms of iron with the most common for aquarium plants being EDTA chleated, DTPA chelated, ferrous gluconate.  EDTA is the least expensive and is the one most commonly used in aquarium plant foods, unfortunately it's effectiveness starts to drop off at about pH 6.0 is basically ineffective when the pH is greater than 7.0.  DTPA is much better in alkaline pH conditions however it can turn water a little purple and is basically ineffective at pH 7.5.  Ferrous gluconate is much easier for plants to uptake no matter the pH.  -Roy

[Torrey]

On 1/9/2022 at 11:43 AM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hey Torrey,

Hopefully the suggestion puts you on the right track.  Remember to watch your new leaves as they emerge and mature to see if there is improvement......existing leaves will not improve.

Until I started dealing with aquatic plants I used to think that 'iron is iron' but during my 14 years with planted tanks I learned that was not the case.  There are several forms of iron with the most common for aquarium plants being EDTA chleated, DTPA chelated, ferrous gluconate.  EDTA is the least expensive and is the one most commonly used in aquarium plant foods, unfortunately it's effectiveness starts to drop off at about pH 6.0 is basically ineffective when the pH is greater than 7.0.  DTPA is much better in alkaline pH conditions however it can turn water a little purple and is basically ineffective at pH 7.5.  Ferrous gluconate is much easier for plants to uptake no matter the pH.  -Roy

You just saved me 10 more years of frustration, then!

[Patrick_G]

@Seattle_Aquarist, great information! It may explain some issues I’ve been seeing show up as I’ve taken steps to bring my soft acidic PNW water closer to neutral. 

[Starnz]

On 1/8/2022 at 10:16 PM, Seattle_Aquarist said:

Hi @Starnz

With a pH of 7.0 only about 35% - 40% of the EDTA iron in the Easy Green is available to your plants which is likely causing the interveinal chlorosis I saw in your first picture.  I would suggest starting to dose Seachem Iron which is made from ferrous gluconate and is much easier for plants to uptake than EDTA when the pH is above 6.5.  Without sufficient available iron photosynthesis drops a which is how plants create sugars for energy and growth.  

Your hardness isn't bad with 4.5 dKH and 7.0 dGh however the curling under of the leaf tips of your Anubias could indicate a lack of calcium and the necrosis (deterioration) of the older leaves of the java fern could be the result of insufficient magnesium or potassium.  If it were my tank I would pick up a jar of Seachem Equilibrium and add 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons to your tank as an initial dose. 

Thereafter, when you do water changes, add 1/2 teaspoon per 10 gallons of new water added.  This will add about 27 ppm of potassium, 6 ppm of calcium, and 1.6 ppm of magnesium.  Now the hard part...............waiting.  DO NOT WATCH YOUR EXISTING LEAVES, THEY WILL NOT IMPROVE AND MAY CONTINUE TO DECLINE.  Instead, over the next 4-6 weeks watch the new leaves as they emerge, do they look healthier, greener, does your growth rate increase?  As the new leave mature do they stay healthy looking?  Then you are on the right path.  The dosage may need to be increased but this is a good dosing level to start with. 

Let us know how things progress, hope this helps! -Roy

Java Fern 'Trident'

Awesome information!! I really appreciate the help. How much seachem iron would you recommend using each week assuming I keep doing my usual easy green too? I have a 45 gallon tank 

[Seattle_Aquarist]

On 1/9/2022 at 2:25 PM, Starnz said:

Awesome information!! I really appreciate the help. How much seachem iron would you recommend using each week assuming I keep doing my usual easy green too? I have a 45 gallon tank 

Hi @Starnz

I would dose the Seachem Iron per the instructions on the bottle.
 -Roy

 

[anewbie]

I was just about to say that - if i remember correctly sachem iron is among the better alternative as it is least impacted by ph.

[lindabee53]

@Seattle_Aquarist This is all information I didn't know - thank you!

[sairving]

Your Java ferns pretty much look like how my attempts at growing java fern went after less than a month.  In the last few months, my anubias started showing signs of nutrient deficiency and stunted growth. My water is on the other end spectrum, very hard due to all the limestone in the area. This has lead me to experiment with mixing my own fertilizer.  Many all-in ones, while not bad products, are not formulated with everything plants need in my hard water.  I came to realize more macros are needed.  So now I'm playing mad scientist with dry fertilizers. I did not buy any iron yet. I made sure the micro mix I bought included DPTA iron.  Although with a PH of 8.2 on my tank, its probably not doing much.         

Interesting thread with lots of good info.  

I just started dosing four days ago and the anubias look healthier. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by sairving

[zayackylepga]

Read this and it was useful information when my crypts starting melting when I increased the light brightness. Hope it helps