Seattle_Aquarist

Hi @TheChosenOne, Good move putting the crushed coral in a mesh bag. The shells of the snails are composed of calcium carbonate just as is crushed coral. If the shells start to show signs of deterioration you can always drop in the crushed coral for a short time. However, if you have not had problems in the past with the snail shells it is likely that there is sufficient calcium in your water supply and dissolved carbon dioxide in the water that adding crushed coral will not be necessary. After you remove the crushed coral I would do (2) 50% water changes over the next 3-5 days do 'reset' the tank and reduce the amount of excess calcium. Then do the following. Since your local water has a slightly high Ca:Mg ratio, and your plants already show issues with insufficient magnesium (Mg) I would recommend adding additional Mg to the tank. I personally try for a 3:1 ration and use magnesium sulfate (MgSO4 / Epsom Salt). Buy the cheapest stuff on the shelf with no additives or scents. Should cost about $1 per pound. Do an initial dose of 1/8 teaspoon per 10 gallons, this will increase your magnesium level by about 1.66 ppm. When you do your weekly water changes add 1/8 teaspoon for every 10 gallons removed and replaced. Continue this for the next 4 - 6 weeks and watch the new growth as it emerges and matures. Do NOT WATCH EXISTING LEAVES...THEY WILL NOT IMPROVE. Does the new growth look greener? Possibly the leaves will be larger and the growth rate will increase. More importantly as the leaves mature they should maintain good color and shape and not die prematurely. Why? Magnesium is an absolute necessity for the process of photosynthesis which give plants their green color and provides the necessary sugars plant need for good growth and health. Hope this helps! -Roy

Hi @TheChosenOne, First of all thank you for your location information. Here is the water analysis that you did verses the water analysis from your local water provider and I found some interesting results. First your readings: Here is the annual water analysis of your local water utility by month for 2023: First of all the results you got using test a test strip to determine total hardness (dGH) that appears to be "very hard / 300 ppm" which equates to dGH@16.7. The alkalinity on the strips look like about "40 ppm" which equates to a dKH of about 2.2 dKH (soft). Now let's look at the analysis from your local water utility with results done in a lab. Those results show an average Total Hardness of 120 ppm (1 mg/l = ppm) which equates to a dGH of 6.7 which is moderately soft. There is a with a fairly large fluctuation between winter readings and summer readings. In the summer months the highest reading for Total Hardness was 200 ppm. If you tank is actually 300 ppm where is that extra Total Hardness (dGH / calcium + magnesium) coming from? Possibly the stones in the tank are not inert and contain calcium which is increasing the calcium level which will effect the Total Hardness. Especially if 50% weekly water changes are not being done conscientiously. As for the Total Alkalinity the test strips indicated about a 40 ppm (2.2 dKH) and the lab analysis indicates the average is 93 mg/l (ppm) or abut 5.4 dKH. So what did I see when I looked in your tank? Actually the Wisteria (Hygrophila difformis) didn't look too bad. However the Ludwigia provided some clues. #1 The new leaves emerge looking fairly healthy. #2 Shortly after emerging they show signs of "puckering". #3 As the leaves mature they start to lose their healthy green color and the margins curl. And #4 as the condition progresses the green coloration almost completely disappears unmasking the purple color you see. The fact that new leaves seem to emerge healthy and as the leaves mature indicate the issue is likely related to one of the 'mobile nutrients' (a nutrient a plant can move from one area to an area where it is most needed, typically new growth. There are many mobile nutrients including all of the macro nutrients (nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus) as well as the secondary nutrient magnesium and various micro nutrients. But what is the likely issue we see in your tank? At first I thought it might be potassium but I don't see the small round pinholes of necrosis (dead tissue) that normally accompanies if the issue is insufficient available potassium (K). I decided to look into the calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) levels of your tap water. As you can see above the average calcium level over the course of the year is 27.4 ppm and the average magnesium level is 7.9. which gives a Ca:Mg ratio of about 3.7:1. This is actually very good since I usually target a Ca:Mg ratio of 3:1 - 4:1 in my tanks. However, with the 300 ppm hardness and excess calcium in the test result it is likely that the Ca:Mg ratio in the tank currently is more like 4.5:1 with excessive calcium. Here is the description of symptoms for insufficient magnesium: 1. Older leaves chlorotic, usually necrotic in late stages. Chlorosis along leaf margins extending between veins produces a "Christmas tree" pattern. Veins normal green. Leaf margins may curl downward or upward with puckering effect. Necrosis may suddenly occur between veins. Potassium or calcium excess can inhibit uptake of magnesium...magnesium deficiency When the external magnesium supply is deficient, interveinal chlorosis of the older leaves is the first symptom because as the magnesium of the chlorophyll is remobilized, the mesophyll cells next to the vascular bundles retain chlorophyll for longer periods than do the parenchyma cells between them. Leaves lose green color at tips and between veins followed by chlorosis or development of brilliant colors, starting with lower leaves and proceeding upwards. The chlorosis/brilliant colors (unmasking of other leaf pigments due to the lack of chlorophyll) may start at the leaf margins or tips and progress inward interveinally producing a "Christmas" tree pattern. Stems are weak, subject to fungus infection, usually leaves drop prematurely; plant may die. Keeping in mind each plant species responds differently to various deficiencies although I do not see pronounced interveinal chlorosis of the older leaves of the Ludwigia the other symptoms regarding loss of green color, unmasking of other leaf pigments due to lack of chlorophyll, and curling of leaf margins are all there. If there is limestone in the rocks used, or if individuals add crushed coral to their tanks, both of which are comprised of calcium carbonate then likelihood of insufficient available magnesium symptoms increase even if there is sufficient magnesium in the water this is due to the reduced Mg uptake by the plants. Depending upon the amount of excess calcium in the tank the effect can be quite drastic. Weekly 50% water changes may help to mitigate the effect if the amount of calcium in the tank is minimal. Using CO2 to increase plant growth, which increases the acidity of the tanks, accelerates the decomposition of the calcium carbonate and can exacerbate the problem. What are your thoughts @TheChosenOne? -Roy (and you thought you were 'long-winded' lol)

Hi @TheChosenOne, First of all I understand the frustration when I think I am doing everything correctly but the results fall short of expectations. Thank you for the water parameters you provided, it helps to eliminate some of the possible causes. Could you please tell me where you are located and the name of your water utility so I can check for their water analysis online (if it is posted). Thank you, -Roy

Hi @svachon9, The ACO is very similar in design to the Fluval Fresh & Plant 3.0, the ACO light if 50 watts and the Fluval is 46 watts. I too have a 24" deep tank and with the light sitting on the frame of the tank at full output through clean glass tops at the substrate level light intensity is PAR@105 - high light. Do I run my tank at that brightness? No because I don't want an algae farm and even with CO2 in my tanks the amount of algae significantly increases if I am dosing fertilizer into the water column. I typically run my tanks at a PAR level at the substrate between 50 -70 depending on the plants I have in the tank and if I am growing. Hope this helps! -Roy 45 gallon tall (24" tall); PAR@70

Hi @jwcarlson, that is certainly a possibility but I don't really see the small black pinholes of necrotic tissue that would indicate a potassium deficiency. -Roy

Hi @doktor zhivago, The holes in your photo are not nutrient related. That is physical damage either caused by snails or a fish species like a pleco...but most likely snails since plecos typically do a 'path' of rasping on the leaf surface. Nutrient related 'holes', are typically related to insufficient available potassium (K) and are small, sometimes pinhole size and round, typically occur in older leaves first. and expand maintaining the round shape over time. Potassium is a mobile nutrient and plants will move it from older leaves to new growth if their is insufficient available in the substrate or water column. -Roy

Hi @TwoFace99, That is correct, it is believed that there is always a "limiting factor" that limits the uptake of nutrients in a tank. Sometimes it is light. Sometimes it is available carbon molecules (that is why CO2 is added to tanks), sometimes it is one nutrient that limits the uptake of the other nutrients and limits the growth of plants. -Roy

Hi @oogabooga Thank you @Tanked for the shout out. @Tanked is correct, no plant will grow without sufficient nutrients, as well as light. Seachem Flourish Comprehensive, although it contains minimal amounts of nitrogen, is not meant as an "complete fertilizer" but rather is a source of micro nutrients. In fact, Seachem markets it a a "supplement" specifically states that: "Provides micro elements, trace elements and other nutrients Does not contain significant levels of nitrogen or phosphorus" Rather than buying all the individual macro nutrients separately (nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus) I suggest purchasing a well balanced all inclusive fertilizer. Given the alkaline pH of your tank my first choice would be Nilocg.com Thrive C which contains all the nutrients needed including DTPA chelated iron necessary for alkaline tanks. The only exception is it contains no calcium (which most local water has sufficient levels already unless you have really soft water). One pump per 5 gallons dosage means a bottle will last quite a while unless you have a huge tank. I always recommend for folks just starting out with planted tanks to use species that are easy to grow like Water Sprite (Ceratopteris cornuta or Ceratopteris thalictroides) Ludwigia repens x arcuata, some of the Limnophila species are fairly easy as are some of the java fern (Microsorum) varieties. The other factor is light, both intensity (PAR) and duration. Information about your tank size and light manufacturer and model might be helpful. -Roy

BTW, that very high pH is likely due to the limestone you are using in your tank.....I would suggest using inert rock and/or weekly water changes of 50%. High pH can effect the uptake of nutrients by plants.

Hi @Milliardo Peacecraft, It takes a little while to become established (first the roots grow then the stems start to grow) but Hygrophila pinnatifida will attach to rocks or wood and does well with higher light levels. With higher light levels than in my picture it will be more reddish. -Roy

Hi @TwoFace99, When I do water changes I added sufficient just for the amount of new water added. For example if I remove and replace 20 gallons from my 45 gallon tank then I add three (3) teaspoons of Equilibrium (1.5 teaspoons X 2) that way I don't have a build-up of minerals in the tank. -Roy

Hi @TwoFace99, I used to test a bunch of different parameters: pH, dKH, dGH, phosphate, iron, etc. But I've been doing planted tanks for 16 years now and usually all I test about once a month is pH, dKH, and dGH and occasionally calcium. I've tested using several brands but now I use API pH, and API GH & KH combo kit, and Salifert Calcium Test Kit. I've checked the API test kits against calibrated solutions and are are accurate enough for aquarium use. BTW, with a dGH reading and a calcium ppm reading you can compute the magnesium ppm level. If you have a large tank, or many smaller tanks, Seachem Equilibrium can become expensive. After you get things under control I can offer some suggestions as to how to use calcium sulfate and magnesium sulfate to deal with low dGH using 'salts'. BTW, when I downloaded, enhanced, and enlarged your photos the most likely issue causing the interveinal chlorosis in your older leaves is insufficient available magnesium. -Roy

Hi @Arnam Anan, Thank you for the additional information. Is the pH of 6.4 the tap water or your tank water or out of the tap? If tap water is still that reading after allowing it to de-gas for 24 hours? I very much discourage the use of crushed coral (calcium carbonate) in increase pH since it is impossible to control the dissolve rate it adds a substantial amount of calcium to the water as it dissolves Not only does it increase the pH to levels that can effect nutrient uptake but it can impact the calcium:magnesium (Ca:Mg) ratio. Using sodium bicarbonate (aka baking soda not baking power) allows much easier control of the pH and does not effect the dGH or Ca:Mg ratio. NYC gets water from two different watersheds, and a multitude of different reservoirs, aqueducts, and pipelines. It is very like that depending upon the source being utilized the water analysis may vary frequently. Here is the most recent NYC water quality report, the water analysis is about 2/3 the way down the .pdf. -Roy

Hi @TwoFace99, If it were me I would do the two (2) 50% water changes over the next few days, that should get you down to close to whatever dGH you have coming out of the tap and hopefully lower you pH as well. Then I would dose sufficient Equilibrium to increase the dGH by increase the dGH by 3.0 dGH to start. How much to dose? 1.5 teaspoons of Equilibrium per 10 gallons will increase the dGH by approximately 3.0 degrees (3.0 dGH) and increase the available calcium by about 16 ppm and available magnesium by about 4.8 ppm. Hope this helps! -Roy

Hi @Arnam Anan, Do you have any water parameter and nutrient level parameters you can share? -Roy