Well water softener

[Tom G]

Does anyone have experience with water softeners for well water? I’m worried the softener is putting too much sodium in the tap water for plants. May not be good for low/med light plants I’m planning to buy here. I’m confident I can add back the other minerals needed with frets. But no clue about the sodium.

My tap water parameters are... 7 dPH, 7 or 8 dGH, KH is high - well over 200 ppm.

I’ve not set up tank yet. Will be a 75 gallon tho. Lots of vals, crypts and octopus tho.

Anyone with experience in this area? I live in MI. So hard, rusty water if I went straight from well. I don’t want to do that.

Happy holidays!

 

 

 

[JettsPapa]

I assume it's the conventional softener, that uses salt?  I have the one that uses the cartridges instead and my plants do fine.

[KaitieG]

I'm interested in this one too--there seem to be a lot of conflicting opinions.  We also run a softener but only on the hot water in the house.  I currently only have 2 smallish tanks, so I boil some cold (unsoftened) water to mix with the rest of the water in 5 gallon buckets and therefore avoid the softened water for the fish.  It's still kind of a pain, and I'm not sure what my move would be if all my water was softened and I didn't want to use the unsoftened water because of something other than the calcium I have.

If you have a bypass to the softener (most systems do) you could maybe run some sort of iron filter and skip the softener?  Depending on the location/accessibility that may or may not be practical. 

I've heard a few people recommend switching to potassium chloride instead of sodium chloride, but I priced that last week and the cost difference is nuts (Sodium=$5/bag Potassium=$29/bag)--it might make sense if I was only using it for fish tanks, but I can't see buying $29/bag salt for doing laundry and dishes and showers!

I'm really hoping you get a bunch of people who say "No problem!  Soften away!"  🙂 

[Daniel]

6 minutes ago, KaitieG said:

I'm really hoping you get a bunch of people who say "No problem!  Soften away!"  🙂 

This is just a guess, but I think the majority of the forum member unhappy with their water parameters and who purchased some kind of water conditioning system ended going with a reverse osmosis unit.

[Tom G]

34 minutes ago, JettsPapa said:

I assume it's the conventional softener, that uses salt?  I have the one that uses the cartridges instead and my plants do fine.

Yes, conventional water softener. I could use potassium but don't for cost reasons.

 

26 minutes ago, Daniel said:

This is just a guess, but I think the majority of the forum member unhappy with their water parameters and who purchased some kind of water conditioning system ended going with a reverse osmosis unit.

From a tap water standpoint, my softened water is excellent, no complaints. Additionally, I have an RO system that is used for drinking only. I don't think it can produce enough RO water to support my 75 gallon tank. And, I tested the RO water parameters. Exact same as my softened water PH and a bit less GH. The KH with RO is very low (0) which concerns me me as well With RO, I'm really going to be dosing my aquarium water and hoping I can maintain the PH. At least that what I think...? 

[Tom G]

56 minutes ago, KaitieG said:

I'm really hoping you get a bunch of people who say "No problem!  Soften away!"  🙂 

Me too! I may stand up a test 10 or 20 gallon tank with my softened water just to experiment before I set up my 75. Might be only option.

The bypass on my softener is an option, but the ware is hard rusty and has odors w/out the treatment.

[Tom G]

I just brought this to test my water...

Digital Salinity Tester for Salt Water - Waterproof IP67 Salinity Meter with ATC Large Range 0-200ppt Saltwater Tester for Seawater, Aquariums, Marine Monitoring, and Koi Fish Pond by ORAPXI

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08GC7JCV3/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_8Xp5FbW8KP6K1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

[tolstoy21]

I was reading about this a week or so back in response to this question by another forum member. It seemed to me, from what I could discern, is that the sodium introduced into your water by the softener itself is negligible. But the minerals that get stripped from the water as its ‘softened’ is what is more likely the cause of issues for plants and fish.  I believe the resins in the softener target calcium and magnesium removal, among other things.

I recharge a nitrate selective resin manually with a heavy brine solution every other week and all my tanks have crazy healthy plant growth. No issues with sodium that I’ve seen and I change out a decent amount of water daily via a change system.

My belief is the amount of sodium introduced into the water via ion exchange is probably negligible.

I could be 100% wrong, but like I said my experience with recharging resin via  sodium ion exchange has yet to have any impact I’ve seen.

Edited December 24, 2020 by tolstoy21

[Tom G]

I’m going to test for sodium with the tester I posted. Guessing sodium is negligible. Then stand up a little 20 gallon tank for a while with same build, but smaller of course, as I plan for my 75 and see if softened water is a problem. Will dose for other nutrients - for plants and fish (more worried about plants). I’m betting you’re 100% right, @tolstoy21. We shall see.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Tom G

[tolstoy21]

Ok, just because I’m a curious lad, from what I’m reading about how much sodium a water softener adds to water, it appears that the hardest water measured in drinking water in the US comes in at about 20 grains of hardness.

A water softener will add 149mg of sodium per quart of softened water at 20 grains hardness. If your water is 8dGH then I think it’s in the area of 8 or 9 grains hardness, if my math is right. So you’re looking at 60mg of sodium per quart, approximately.

Now in comparison, seawater is 35,000mg sodium per liter of water (and a liter is pretty comparable to a quart, right?).

I apologize if my numbers are off, but if they are anywhere in the ballpark comparison wise, I’m still sticking with the sodium being negligible as added by a water softener.

Anyone dumping baby brine shrimp and their water into an aquarium to feed fish is probably far exceeding anything a softener is contributing. 

Edited December 25, 2020 by tolstoy21

[Tom G]

I think we have a good hypothesis here tolstoy21. The salinity tester will tell a lot.  I need to see if Easy Green will replace the calcium, magnesium and other minerals as well... Some fun experiments coming up!

[lefty o]

a salinity tester will peg off of water right out of the tap LOL many moons ago when i was going to interior communications electricians A school in the navy, the section on salinity panels, the instructor showed us. glass of water right out of the drinking fountain buried the needle.  salinity tester just test conductivity of water. all the dissolved stuff in water is what makes it conductive.  reality is, water softeners put so little salt in the water, it is of no consequence for fish keeping.

Edited December 26, 2020 by lefty o

[KaitieG]

On 12/24/2020 at 12:37 PM, Daniel said:

This is just a guess, but I think the majority of the forum member unhappy with their water parameters and who purchased some kind of water conditioning system ended going with a reverse osmosis unit.

I totally get that for aquariums--doesn't work well for an entire house's water supply (at least not with as much laundry as we do around here!).  

[KaitieG]

21 hours ago, Tom G said:

I think we have a good hypothesis here tolstoy21. The salinity tester will tell a lot.  I need to see if Easy Green will replace the calcium, magnesium and other minerals as well... Some fun experiments coming up!

Let us know what you find out, please 🙂  I'll be waiting to hear!

[Tom G]

So, here's what I decided to do...

First, the salinity tester I bought says my softened tap water is 650 ppm (0.06%) sodium. I've read that anywhere between 200 ppm and 1000 ppm is totally fine for drinking water. I'm also assuming that it would be fine for fish. But, two items are of concern for me still: 1.) I have a rust remover additive in my softener's sodium pellets and I've researched that it's basically a citric acid additive. I don't want that in my aquarium. 2.) My intention is to grow a lot of plants (even more than I'm interested in fish, at least right now). And my softened tap water has no calcium carbonate or magnesium – which are good for plants – as that's what's replaced with sodium.

So, I've decided to simply use hard water straight from my well. It's really hard 500ppm GH 240 ppm KH. I'm simply going to use Fluval peat moss in my canister filter and see how this goes. Thinking I can add Seachem Purigen to the filter as well to remove the brown color from the peat moss. And ultimately even mix the well water with distilled water only if I need to (maybe 5 store bought gallons added to my 75 tank like one a month or so). This is what I'm testing now.

But all said, if I didn't want to grow plants, and didn't have the citric acid issue, I'd be fine using my straight softened tap water for fish keeping.  

[Streetwise]

Consider an initial test with just your well water, so you have a baseline. Maybe it will be fine, and not require additional action. That said, my water is on the harder side, and I happen to use wood in all of my tanks.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Streetwise

[Gbear]

I’ve been running my tanks in this house with a water softner for 5 years 120 gal planted with South American fish and a 50 gal planted with tetras and a 20 with plants and blue dreams so far so good .. I was going to buy an ro but it’s been fine all fish will be in my care for 5 years now except blue dream tank is 6 months 

[tolstoy21]

On 1/8/2021 at 1:20 PM, Tom G said:

1.) I have a rust remover additive in my softener's sodium pellets and I've researched that it's basically a citric acid additive. I don't want that in my aquarium.

Do you require the rust remover? Or next time you buy more salt can you just change the brand/type to plain solar salt crystals?

[Tom G]

I don’t require the rust remover so will let the current salt run it’s course and use pure sodium going forward. But that will take a few months.

[Billfromtx]

For those that have debated Pottasium because of the price point. Have you considered a stand alone (portable) water softener unit? They are roughly the size of a canister. You could plumb a pipe from your nearest cold water tap or just run a water hose from the kitchen or washing room when it is fill up time. This way the potassium is only for the aquarium. The portable units aren't to pricey, seen them for about 250$ at Home Depot. 

[Ben_RF]

A lot of people forget that you can easily put your water softener in bypass mode.   Switch your valves by the unit into bypass, flush out your line for about a minute and then fill your tank.  That way you dont have to worry about any of the chemical reactions that occur in water softner units.   Also don't forget there are tons of different type of softner units from those that use various types of salt to saltless units.

[lefty o]

17 minutes ago, Ben_RF said:

A lot of people forget that you can easily put your water softener in bypass mode.   Switch your valves by the unit into bypass, flush out your line for about a minute and then fill your tank.  That way you dont have to worry about any of the chemical reactions that occur in water softner units.   Also don't forget there are tons of different type of softner units from those that use various types of salt to saltless units.

thats a fact. despite a softener adds virtually no salt, but pretty much every water softener you can buy has a bypass on the head. if you want non softened water, push the bypass valve over, and run enough water to clear the line of the softened water. just dont forget to put the bypass back into normal mode unless you like the scum, and scale in your sinks and on your dishes.

[Tom G]

Yes, the bypass on my softener is there. And, I'm using it. Problem is that the GH and KH are off the charts w/well water. And the water is 50 degrees as it bypasses the water heater too.

Solution right now though is two 32 gallon garbage cans, a portable RO filter and a 20 gal spare tank w/a heater. I've made about 60 gallons of RO water, kept in the garbage cans. I mix the RO with well water 50/50 in the 20 gal tank, with a heater. Use that for small water changes on my 75 gal. If I need a big WC, I just drop a heater in a garbage can, mix that 50/50 with the well water and I'm good. Seems to be working fine. I just run the RO filter over night from the well and it's working. 

[tekjunkie28]

This is why I don't want to run a softener. The issues they cause is more of a problem then the benefits. This is especially true for residential.. In commercial places then a water softener is probably a huge money saver.  Either get a plumber or yourself to put in a Tee and a garden hose bib before the softener.

[tolstoy21]

10 hours ago, tekjunkie28 said:

The issues they cause is more of a problem then the benefits. This is especially true for residential..

I would say one’s mileage may vary on this, and that it depends on why one uses or needs a softener or other water conditioning devices in a home. Personally without adjusting my well water, the amount of time and money I’d spend replacing fixtures, dealing with water scale, and opening walls to fix pinhole leaks caused by pipe corrosion — this all outweighs the cost of my water remediation.

I’m not convinced that softerners drastically affect aquariums and fish unless the ph/hardness they produce is not to ones liking for the species one plans to keep. Maybe, you’ll need to use some wonder shells or equilibrium to adjust the gh, but that’s probably it. 

I do personally bypass my softener because I’m handy and can do my own plumbing and because the ph of my /treated water is higher than I want it to be, but I don’t think most people should fret and worry about their softener in terms of keeping an aquarium and go out and spend money to bypass it via plumbing. (Like someone else suggested, just use the built in bypass). Just know what the readings of the water coming out of the softener  are via any available aquarium test kit and adjust that with some simple, readily available aquarium products to target the gh/KH you’d like, if needed.

Now in terms of being a home owner, if you need a softener, and not everyone may need one, they can remediate some problems that will cost you more money to deal with long term than maintaining one will.