Discussion: do you like to use dirt in your tanks?

[clownbaby]

Do you like to use dirt in your tank, a different fertilized substrate (perhaps like fluval stratum or even root tablets), only inert substrate, or none of the above? 

Why do you use dirt? Why do you not use dirt? What is your experience like?

You can provide as little or as much information as you'd like! I'd love to hear about it.

 

My personal opinion is I like dirted tanks and think the pros outweigh the cons, but I wish I had researched more before jumping right in. Dirted tanks cause a bit of problems: primarily making the water muddy or murky, especially if you don't know what you're doing. I used my own mix for "dirt": peat moss, organic soil mix, clay, decaying leaf litter, and crushed lava rock. I knew this would provide nutrients to my plants, and I was confident. But this was my first time using live plants, and my first time using dirt. Gosh, I didn't know what I was getting into...

I had to do five water changes the first week setting up my tank, simply because some of the dirt matter dissolved into the water. To cap off the substrate, I had to use almost two inches of fine pea gravel + sand mix. 

That being said, I do not regret it: I would just go about it differently in the future. So here is what I would change:

1.  get the dirt wet AND waterlogged before capping off with inert substrate or filling the tank. This will reduce the random bubbles.
2. don't cheap out on inert substrate: get more that I think I will need. At first I only got enough to cover barely an inch deep, which was not enough. It just caused more pain and ended up mixing my inert substrate in with my dirt mixture. It was super difficult and I had to restart once or twice.
3. after I did get my inert substrate figured out, I filled the tank all the way up before planting. Not the best decision, as I learned. Instead, next time I will fill the tank about half way and then plant. 
   1. Honestly, just like planting a veggie garden, I would probably "mound" the plants with sand/gravel a little to encourage them to STAY IN THE DARN GROUND.
   2. I also learned not to be scared of weights, glues, and strings. At first I was kind of stuck-up and thought it wasn't natural and ergo bad if you used things like plant weights or if you glued/tied your anubias down. HECK NO. These are tools. Use them! That is something important I learned. When I was putting moss in my tank I quickly learned I needed string to tie em down... and when I purchased some rotala it came tied with a weight, and gosh this stuff is helpful. I love these tools and glad I tried them.

So how do you feel about dirt in tanks? What did you learn?

[mynameisnobody]

Personally, I think there’s too many factors that can go wrong and be discouraging to the vast majority of begginers. If you like then do it because at the very least it’s an experiment that you can learn from. 

[MattyM]

I would try it as an experiment, maybe in a smaller tank. But I've had such good luck with sand and root tabs/ferts that I would likely do another tank the same way. 

Also dirt will eventually deplete itself, so you'll either have to break the tank down to change it out or start shoving root tabs into it, which could also cause a mess. 

I think if you had just done a good sand cap and w/o any gravel you might have had an easier time, but I have no experience - that's just what I've read from others. Good luck - would love to see a pic of the tank once it settles in. 

[HelplessNewbie]

Thank you for sharing your experience and lessons learned. I will probably try a dirted tank in a 5 gallon some day.

In our 20 and 65 gallons, we went with something odd, I think...

1 inch bottom layer composed of hardwood pellets (for smoking meats) with diy N-P-K root tabs sprinkled alternately with a few diy iron root tabs and seed material like organic compost or gunk from a seeded filter, then capped with 1 inch coarse sand. The idea behind using the wood pellets is similar to heugelkultur. When we reach the 1 year mark, I will report on the plants, but barring another water quality issue and ensuing, panicked beginner hobbyist response last year, the plants seem to be doing okay right now.

So, it is basically an inert substrate. I expect to replenish the root tabs periodically anyway, so it won't be a hardship to do this later on with a future dirted tank. I mean, when the soil layer gets used up, I don't intend to redo the substrate. Sounds like a pain! I will just use root tabs.

Just like your observation about the soil later needing to be waterlogged before capping, we had to do the same with the wood layer. Otherwise, lots of bits and pieces floated up.

Coarse sand and calcined clay (Safe-T-Sorb, on a separate part of my 65g) seemed easy to plant in compared to gravel in another tank. Now, if only I can get the jumbo amano shrimp and mystery snail to stop pulling the stems out. I like the idea of mounding up or surrounding the stems with small rocks.

I saved a little money by using Black Diamond blasting sand mixed in with the coarse sand.

I saved the large water changes for after a 4 week period of ghost feeding and keeping the tank covered to keep algae from getting a toehold. I put the plants in after the 4 weeks.

[AllFishNoBrakes]

My 6 gallon cube I did like 1/4” of dirt, and a 2-2.5” gravel cap. 2.5 years later it’s a Pearl Weed jungle with no signs of slowing down. There’s also no filter in the tank. 
 

It has been a fun experiment, but I haven’t set up any other tanks like that nor do I really plan to. 

[Sciurus]

For my first planted tank I did a 10 Gallon with 1inch of dirt and about 1.5inches of gravel on top of that. I did wet it down before filling, so I never really experienced any bubbles popping up. For the dirt I just used miracle-gro all purpose organic soil and have had no issues for the past 2 years, and the pearl weed and crypts are still going nuts.
I never had to put any root tabs just some liquid ferts every once and a while when i remember, now the tank doesn't have a filter and all the plants do the filtering work for me. Mess wise, it doesn't seem to be much different from my fluval stratum tank, both cloud up the water significantly when disturbed. It does give off a lot of tannins which may not always look good depending on the person and style of the tank. If I dirt a tank or not just depends what I have on hand at the time I set up a new tank and what plants I plan to use.

[EricksonAquatics]

I’ve always been curious about dirted tanks, but I’m definitely too scared to try it😂

The convenience of never having to plug in root tabs sounds reeeeeeal nice, but eventually you’d have to redo the entire tank which I don’t love.
The thing that I don’t like the most is the thought of disturbing the dirt whenever I try to stick plants in it or uproot anything. Releasing that into the water column is not a nice thought for me😂

If I was going to do it, I’d do it in a nano tank and I’d probably use Fluval stratum (versus actual soil) and cap it with gravel. That’s the other problem, I feel like people like to cap theirs with sand to hold it in better, but personally I don’t like using sand. 

I think I’m just paranoid, but for me I’m fine to plug in root tabs every once in a while and target feed my heavy root feeders lol. Maybe someday I’ll try a dirted nano scape!

[JettsPapa]

I have several 10 and 20 gallon tanks with 1" of mixed dirt and dry cow manure (I have cattle, so I collected it myself instead of buying it) capped with 2" of either pool filter sand or Black Diamond sandblasting sand.  As you might imagine, the cow manure caused gasses to bubble up for months, but the fish and invertebrates didn't seem to mind.

Plants are doing very well in it, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again for display tanks.  The only drawback is that when I remove plants to sell invariably some of the soil winds up on top.  It doesn't cloud the water, so that's not an issue, so while I don't really mind, some people probably wouldn't like the way it looks.

[Biotope Biologist]

I love dirt for heavy planted tanks! One thing I learned though is pumice floats! Haha so avoid pumice dirt I was scooping volcanic chunks off the surface for weeks! 
 

My current tank uses a mostly peat sand dirt which oddly had little effect on my ph but my emergent plants love it because it gets very muddy like you would see in a stream.

 

I think depending on the composition of your dirt you may have a rough time with it. If you opt for a sandy loamy mixture it’s heavy enough on its own that you don’t need a sandcap and that when your fish friends inevitably stir it up while foraging or playing it won’t immediately cloud the tank.

 

In my new tank im using a peat/sand/organics mixed with fluval stratum black. Haven’t filled the tank yet so we will see if I need to cap with black sand or not.

 

Anyway not all dirt is created equal so make sure to check those compositions on the back!

[clownbaby]

On 4/23/2024 at 6:55 AM, JettsPapa said:

I have several 10 and 20 gallon tanks with 1" of mixed dirt and dry cow manure (I have cattle, so I collected it myself instead of buying it) capped with 2" of either pool filter sand or Black Diamond sandblasting sand.  As you might imagine, the cow manure caused gasses to bubble up for months, but the fish and invertebrates didn't seem to mind.

Plants are doing very well in it, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again for display tanks.  The only drawback is that when I remove plants to sell invariably some of the soil winds up on top.  It doesn't cloud the water, so that's not an issue, so while I don't really mind, some people probably wouldn't like the way it looks.

This is a really cool additive!! You can make natural ponds without using a plastic liner by using animal manure, but for some reason I never thought to add it to aquariums. Have you had any problems with ammonia? This is really interesting and awesome!

(also, would love to see pictures of your cows!!! ❤️ i love farm animals, especially cows, they're my favorite!) !!!

On 4/23/2024 at 8:21 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

I love dirt for heavy planted tanks! One thing I learned though is pumice floats! Haha so avoid pumice dirt I was scooping volcanic chunks off the surface for weeks! 
 

My current tank uses a mostly peat sand dirt which oddly had little effect on my ph but my emergent plants love it because it gets very muddy like you would see in a stream.

 

I think depending on the composition of your dirt you may have a rough time with it. If you opt for a sandy loamy mixture it’s heavy enough on its own that you don’t need a sandcap and that when your fish friends inevitably stir it up while foraging or playing it won’t immediately cloud the tank.

 

In my new tank im using a peat/sand/organics mixed with fluval stratum black. Haven’t filled the tank yet so we will see if I need to cap with black sand or not.

 

Anyway not all dirt is created equal so make sure to check those compositions on the back!

mhm! I think I definitely should have added some sand and silt to it, now that I have spent more time playing and exploring in ponds, lakes, and streams. Most of the soil composition in these streams is fish poop, sand, silt, and decaying leaf junk. Now that I know better I would definitely base my soil mix more on what is found in natural wetland areas. 

Thank you so much for the feedback!!!

[EricksonAquatics]

I am really curious - how long does it really take for the soil to essentially “run out of nutrients”?
What are the pros and cons to using actual dirt soil versus something like fluval stratum? I’m tempted to dip my toes into dirted tanks but I think I would start with a nutrient rich substrate. I’m still scared after watching Girl Talks Fish video on her experience with it and a bunch of her shrimp dying?!😂

[anewbie]

I never use dirt in my tanks - i don't want my fishes to get dirty.

 

[FLFishChik]

I don’t use it in my tanks. While I love a dense, well planted scape, I keep it simple and put my focus on the inhabitants. The plants I use are low light, low maintenance… a lot of epiphytes, crypts, Vallisneria. A root tab every now and then and some Easy Green liquid pretty much does the trick. 
 

 It just comes down to “I don’t want to be bothered with”… possible ammonia spikes, murky water, extra critters( tho it’s probably not that big of an issue), worrying about light levels, if I need Co2… I like it simple. The Less work, the more enjoyable for me

[clownbaby]

On 4/23/2024 at 2:23 PM, EricksonAquatics said:

I am really curious - how long does it really take for the soil to essentially “run out of nutrients”?
 

That definitely depends on what is in your soil. Not all soil is made equal! If you go out in your backyard and dig up some soil, it'll probably be depleted (or "dead", as I call it!) within a year. But if you do it carefully and in layers, it could withstand multiple years without dying easily.

When using a natural process, it is best to mimic nature! I learned this the hard way. Typically, the soil of wetlands and lakes is formed into layers. The layers are dependant on the environment, but here is a general baseline of what is typical and average: (In order of TOP-most to BOTTOM-most)!

1. silt or sand
2. loose, powdery clay
3. heavily decayed plant matter / compost (to the point in which the plants cannot be identified)
4. chalky, loose sandy soil
5. clay
6. sandy soil
7. non-decayed plant matter (peat)

 

Each of these are pretty much proportionate to each other. But, to simplify it for the aquarist, here is the formula I used (in order of top to bottom!)

1. mix of pea gravel and sand
2. compost
3. organic soil
4. clay
5. crushed lava rock (primarily for an area for beneficial bacteria & surface for microfauna to reproduce)
6. peat and leaf litter

The only thing I would have changed is to add a layer of silty / very sandy soil on top of the compost. Not a thick layer, but something to keep the compost down when I needed to plant something. 

Now, eventually this will be depleted, but due to the presence of peat (which is actively decomposing now that it is not in a bog) it will keep adding nutrients. Honestly, once the soil does die, I just plan to stick root tabs in there anyway because I am not dealing with that LMAO. 

Finally, I had one more note: there are plants that "fix" nitrogen or add nutrients into the soil. Azolla (mosquito fern) is a plant that fixes nitrogen. This nitrogen will eventually get into your soil and feed the plants. Finally, some plants only use roots as anchors; some aquatic plants take up their nutrients through the stems and leaves, not the roots. Meaning soil isn't a benefit, nutritionally. This is only true for SOME aquatic plants though, so be sure you check. Plus, detritus worms and other microfaunas and macrofaunas eat fish poop and add nutrients into the soil again, which is great. It is a complicated thing but I feel confident in saying my soil will have nutrients for at least two years... and once it does die, I just will use root tabs and Easy green to fertilize my plants. 

Quote

What are the pros and cons to using actual dirt soil versus something like fluval stratum? I’m tempted to dip my toes into dirted tanks but I think I would start with a nutrient rich substrate. I’m still scared after watching Girl Talks Fish video on her experience with it and a bunch of her shrimp dying?!😂

Personally I am unsure because I've never used it, but I have a hunch that something like fluval stratum (which is partially firm/solid) dissolves a lot less than true soil does... but please do not quote me, as I haven't used this.

I'd also recommend using hardier fish if you want to try dirted tanks. They can cause some problems if you don't know what you're doing (like me!), so maybe try it out on a betta fish or other hardy fish that can tolerate some changes in water quality. Shrimp are not hardy, so any changes could easily kill em, I'm not surprised to hear that happened. Personally all my snails are really happy with the dirt! They constantly go under the gravel into the dirt and eat stuff. 

Also, if you want to try it out or "dip your toes", I recommend a little ecosphere! Just go to a local stream or wetland (lake, bog, soggy area, etc) and scoop up some dirt and water into a jar, shake, and let it settle. The layers of soil will separate into soil at the bottom, with sand being at the bottom, then clay, then silt and plant matter. 

Then for your next jar, get the same dirt, but before adding water, cap it off with at least an inch of sand (ideally 2 inches). Get one plant (aquatic or not, it doesn't matter, since this isn't a real tank,) and plant it before adding water. Next, add the water, and plant another plant into it. Compare and contrast how the water changed when you planted something versus how it was with the plant already planted. Compare the water with the first jar versus the second. What are the differences? What looks better? I did this after my tanks but I found it really helpful anyway.

Sorry for rambling, nature stuff is my passion and special interest lol!! I hope it helped!

[EricksonAquatics]

On 4/23/2024 at 6:43 PM, clownbaby said:

Sorry for rambling, nature stuff is my passion and special interest lol!! I hope it helped!

Not at all, I super appreciate it! You are very knowledgeable on this topic and that is awesome! 

On 4/23/2024 at 6:43 PM, clownbaby said:

Also, if you want to try it out or "dip your toes", I recommend a little ecosphere!

This is honestly a great idea! Literally having a little enclosed jar of plants and dirt would make me happy. Lol, this hobby is so weird😂

[Odd Duck]

I regret using a thin layer of baked clay under 2” of sand in my 100G nanofish tank that has my big boy blue-eyed lemon bristlenose plecos because they are always stirring it up!  Once they got big enough, I haven’t had a day of completely clear water since.  It will get almost clear just in time for one of them to grub around again and toss sand all over the place.  It might help if I only had one male in there, but they scuffle every so often and stir it up.  No injuries, but soooooo annoying.  I’ll probably have to try to move one of the boys sooner rather than later if I ever want my water to stay truly clear again.  🤦🏻‍♀️ 

[Shrimp Doggy Dogg]

I have only 1 tank with soil and a sand cap and on the positive side, that tank found balance/stability faster than any other tank I've had.

On the negative side, you'd better be absolutely sure about your plant placement because moving them will cause a lot of problems.

 

I'll probably do it again in the future, but I'll definitely spend more time in the planning phase.