Is Petco employee sour or am I in the wrong?

[clownbaby]

I have a thirty gallon aquarium, cycled for two months, has multiple live plants & until yesterday (MAR 29 2024) was only stocked with a mystery snail, a bladder snail hitchhiker, copepods and detritus worms.

I went to my LFS to get some background plants and some corycats! I was looking for pygmy cories. My tank is big enough for a species like panda cories, but I really wanted a large shoal and I think pygmy cories are super duper cute ^_^ !! My LFS gave me an amazing deal on a plant, but did not have pygmy cories in stock. So, with today being payday and me realllllllllllllly wanting fish, I headed to my local Petco, which is honestly really accountable and well-managed in their fish department. All the tanks have live plants and they recommend live plants for [almost] all aquariums. 

I went to their nano-fish section and counted about 12 pygmy cories. When the employee came over, I saw her name tag read "aquatics specialist," so I felt pretty happy and comfortable! However, when I told her I wanted to buy 12 pygmy cories, she told me that I would overstock my tank and overload my cycle and that my nitrites and ammonia would spike immediately. She then said I should buy three or four at a time and introduce them slowly. She also said all of this before asking about my tank size, stocking, plants, cycle, etc. I corrected her and said "my tank is 30 gallons and has been cycling for 2 months." She asked me if I had fish, and when I said "nope! just a mystery snail." She said that was even worse and my 'clean up crew' (corydoras) would starve and be uncomfortable? I just didn't think this was true because I have algae wafers, baby brine shrimp and once they get bigger I'll get bloodworms too; my mystery snail has honestly done a pretty bad job overall eating algae because I spoil him and give him lots of green beans and kale treats LMAO 😅😊

Now, I get it, I honestly look like a clown, and I am a child... so I believe she thought she knew more than me, but I feel like 12 pygmy cories in a cycled 30 gallon is way understocked and adding them all at once would not overload my cycle. They like to be in bigger groups -- isn't this preferable to keep them comfortable?

The most she would sell me was six, so that's what I got. The rest I will definitely be getting from my LFS because she was incredibly patronizing, even if she was correct.

But that left me a little confused. I have researched for over a year with fishkeeping, and felt pretty confident in a larger shoal of pygmy corydoras for my aquarium, but in the end - I am pretty new to this. So in short, was she correct? I would like to take that humiliating experience and learn from it if I could, so would 12 pygmy cories overload my cycle, and if so, why? I love to learn so please correct me if I am wrong. 

(TL;DR) Petco employee told me that I could not buy 12 pygmy cories because it would overload my cycle and my tank would be way overstocked. My tank is 30 gallons and was only stocked with a mystery snail & microfauna. The most she would sell me was six, but told me I should buy three at a time. She didn't ask me my tank size or my stocking whatsoever. She then said having a 30 gallon with no fish and suddenly adding 12 fish is worse than if I added it to a nano-tank... I am just very confused because all of that kinda goes against everything I have learned and if she is correct I want someone to tell me so I can learn from that humiliating encounter. So please tell me: is adding 12 pygmy cories to a 30 gallon tank going to overload my cycle?

 

[knee]

I do get where the employee is coming from but I doubt that 12 Pygmy Cories would crash the cycle. Those fish are so tiny the mystery snail and other snails probably poop more than 12 of them. 

[Pepere]

I think the employee was out of line. However I would probably have opted for6-8 myself on first stocking and pick up more in a week or two…

 

generally I try to add fish in groups of 6-8 when starting a 29 gallon tank and wait a week or two before adding.

I also tend to test for ammonia and nitrite after adding fish every few days for a week or so…

 

in essence your tank may be fully cycled inso far as it can metaboloze all the bioload it is exposed to.  Double or triple the bioload and it needs time to adapt…. And it might not keep up and could be issues.   Now water changes will deal with those issues just fine…

Edited March 30 by Pepere

[doktor zhivago]

i put 12 harlequin rasboras in my tank (37 gallons) after about 5/6 weeks of cycle with snails and plants and they're doing fine. they actually out compete the platys for food most of the time... i think you woulda been ok with the pygmies. worst case you add some prime/fritz complete and do some water changes for a couple days while the bacteria and plants catch up

as an aside, none of your 'clean up crew' is gonna eat algae if you feed them other stuff cuz it has very limited nutrient value in comparison to actual fish food or veggies (i haven't kept corys but my understanding is they don't actually do much cleaning)  

[clownbaby]

On 3/30/2024 at 10:50 AM, doktor zhivago said:

as an aside, none of your 'clean up crew' is gonna eat algae if you feed them other stuff cuz it has very limited nutrient value in comparison to actual fish food or veggies (i haven't kept corys but my understanding is they don't actually do much cleaning)  

Yep! I know. They're not really 'clean up crew' in my eyes, just pets and fish! I was quoting the employee /nm ^^ I actually like the look of green algae, I think it makes a scape look super wild and natural. And yeah, I've heard cories aren't good cleaners either. Oh well... I didn't get em for that!

Thanks for the info too! 

[jwcarlson]

Employee seems a bit misinformed and out of line, really.  I tend to be fairly understocked in my tanks unless they're growout tanks with lots of fry in them getting lots of water changes, but 12 pygmy corys shouldn't be an issue I wouldn't think, though I have not kept them.

It's not all bad staggering the loading, but water changes solve any concerns of ammonia or nitrite spikes.

[Pepere]

On 3/30/2024 at 1:50 PM, doktor zhivago said:

an aside, none of your 'clean up crew' is gonna eat algae if you feed them other stuff cuz it has very limited nutrient value in comparison to actual fish food or veggies (i haven't kept corys but my understanding is they don't actually do much cleaning)  

Cories are not going to clean up algae but they do clean up food that falls to the bottom not eaten by other fish.

They also scurry along the bottom a lot and in the process re suspend mulm and detritus in the water column giving your filter, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th …. Chances to suck it up.  The bigger cories do this far better than Pygmy cories, but Cories are definitely valuable for cleaning up…. Just not Algae…

[face]

I feel the need to mention that the amount of ammonia is more to do with the amount of food you put in and not really the amount of fish if you feed the same amount you will get the same amount of ammonia I’m going to be getting some (hopefully) soon and I’m not really worried and I’ll be doing probably 20 or 25 all at once in my 55

[clownbaby]

On 3/30/2024 at 9:55 AM, Pepere said:

I think the employee was out of line. However I would probably have opted for6-8 myself on first stocking and pick up more in a week or two…

 

generally I try to add fish in groups of 6-8 when starting a 29 gallon tank and wait a week or two before adding.

I also tend to test for ammonia and nitrite after adding fish every few days for a week or so…

 

in essence your tank may be fully cycled inso far as it can metaboloze all the bioload it is exposed to.  Double or triple the bioload and it needs time to adapt…. And it might not keep up and could be issues.   Now water changes will deal with those issues just fine…

Yes! This is very helpful, thank you!!! I have been testing daily and so far everything seems well. Since I have six now, and I want at least ten, you say I should wait at least three weeks or so to add four more? Just checking to make sure I understand correctly!

[lefty o]

if your readings stay good, and you bump the amount of food up just a tiny bit to emulate what you will feed with the extra fish.... give it a few days to a week for the bacteria levels to grow, then add more fish.

[Odd Duck]

I suspect the pet store employee would be truly shocked to know that I recently plopped 10 pygmy cories and 10 ember tetras all in the same 10 G quarantine tank.   Plus I put 16 chili rasboras and 16 kubotai rasboras into another 10 G quarantine tank a couple days later.  Both tanks are planted, well seasoned, over-filtered, and have some ramshorn snails running around.  I moved guppies out of each tank to put these fish in the grow-out turned QT tanks.  Haven’t lost a single one of the fish.

I “get away with” breaking a lot of “rules” by having a good idea of the bioload the tanks can carry, by doing appropriate water changes, and by being careful to not overfeed (that last part is a constant struggle for me).  Lots of plants help expand the biofiltration capacity of the tanks, loads of sponge filtration whether it’s,y sponge substrate over undergravel filters or sponge in the HOB filters, emerse plants, tiny fish going in the tank, etc, etc, etc.

I’m quite certain your 6 pygmy cories produce less waste than that single mystery snail.  As long as you don’t overfeed and have rotting food laying around you should be fine.  Keep track of your parameters!  As long as no spikes you can very gradually increase your feeding (the goal is only tiny bits of food are left for a few hours - a bit like a micro version of blind-feeding to cycle a tank) you can gradually increase your biofiltration capacity (your goal is to grow your beneficial bacteria).  You should NOT have big globs of rotten food laying around.  A few tiny speckles at most and not even every day.  In a week or so you should be able to add another 6 pygmy cories.

You MUST be aware that any time there are visible bits of food waste you are potentially playing with fire as a less experienced aquarist.  I like fire.  Heh hehe, heh heh, heh heh.  I also have been keeping fish since 1975.  Yes, I’m old.  It can be a very fine line!  But with 30 gallons and tiny pygmy cories, you have some leeway.  Just be careful and be ready to change water quickly if needed and dose with prime if needed.  Don’t get too carried away with feeding!  Good luck.

[Schuyler]

When I asked about breeding them, someone very experienced said that I could put my school of 20 into a 10 gallon tank as a bedding setup.

I bet they would fare better as a group. I started with 9 and when I went up to 20 they started coming out way more.

I suspect the employee is wary of people coming in, lying about their tank, killing fish, and then coming back in to get them replaced. Would cut them a bit of slack. At least they're on the cautious and animal welfare side.

[anewbie]

The one thing she said that might have some truth to it is that pygmy are a very shy fish and if by themselves they might feel insecure; there are a lot of factors here and it is not a given but having a schooling dither fish like kubotai rasbora might make them feel a bit more comfortable. I have some pygmy in a 180 and it is a crap shoot if i see them as they frequently hide in the very back. Of course my orange laser do the same thing and i have around 15 of them.... they do come out when i toss food in - sometime but for months i thought all my pygmy died until one day i saw 20 in some plants looking for scrapes of food. 

Of course if your tank has no place to hide they probably won't be hiding too much.

 

[madmark285]

 

On 3/30/2024 at 11:26 AM, clownbaby said:

Now, I get it, I honestly look like a clown, and I am a child... so I believe she thought she knew more than me, but I feel like 12 pygmy cories in a cycled 30 gallon is way understocked and adding them all at once would not overload my cycle. They like to be in bigger groups -- isn't this preferable to keep them comfortable?

The most she would sell me was six, so that's what I got. The rest I will definitely be getting from my LFS because she was incredibly patronizing, even if she was correct.

To be fair to the PetCo's aquatics specialist, she may have to deal with so many newbies such a my 60 year old neighbor. But to be fair to you, the LFS  sold my neighbor a bunch of fish for a tank that was 5 days old ie: a sterile tank. You are far more knowledgeable than my 60 year old neighbor. I will give the PetCo specialist a F on her listening skills, it should have been clear you know what you are doing. 

I have had good luck buying fish online from Aqua Huna, they only charge $12.99 for shipping and i don't have to pay the local 7% sales tax.  For large online purchases, I prefer to use ammonia in a bottle with multiple dosing for cycling a tank.. So with testing, you can verify that bacteria colonies have been well established. With the 29 gallon I just set up, I added ammonia three times. I also added matrix from another tank and clean out a sponge filter in the tank. 

 

 

 

[NOLANANO]

On 3/30/2024 at 11:55 AM, Pepere said:

I think the employee was out of line.

I do as well. I think the employee was correct to warn you that 12 might overload your system in her opinion but should have sold you what you wanted. Its one thing for her to say I won't sell you an Oscar for your 10 gallon but saying she won't sell pygmy cories is a bit ridiculous imo.

Silver lining here is that you know that employee cares about the fish more than the sale. Even though she was maybe a bit rude, I'd feel comfortable buying her fish because they will probably be healthy.

[Tanked]

On 3/30/2024 at 11:26 AM, clownbaby said:

...which is honestly really accountable and well-managed in their fish department.

...I corrected her and said "my tank is 30 gallons and has been cycling for 2 months."

I have to run with the Aquatics Specialist on this one.  She erred on the side of caution. 

First, the title may be nothing more than a word on the name tag.  Her skill/experience level may or may not be on par with yours.  She also has to deal with customers whose experience levels range from zero-decades every day. Was your aquarium ready for 12 pygmy cories?  Probably, but what if you were wrong?

[Schuyler]

Just adding one last bit...

If you can afford it, get a while bunch more pygmy corys. The more you have the more they'll interact and then when they school it will be that much cooler.

I go through cycles of being worried that they're all dead, then during a water change they all school up and zoom around, and then they'll hang out sitting on leaves.

[knee]

On 4/1/2024 at 8:41 AM, Schuyler said:

I go through cycles of being worried that they're all dead, then during a water change they all school up and zoom around, and then they'll hang out sitting on leaves.

I went through that a couple of weeks ago and when I broke down their current tank so I can transfer them to a bigger tank, I found that I still have all 15 of them alive 😂

[MattyM]

The employee should have asked more questions first, and maybe suggested a bottle of API Quick Start, test strips, and some Cory food or something - in case you didn't have such things on hand. I think she had good intentions, but I know I would get frustrated working in any pet chain store. 

Sadly the aquatic departments in our big box pet stores are just lacking, especially compared to some European ones that are pristine works of art and knowledge. like check out this store:

 

[Ujaynme]

I don’t think you’re wrong, but if you were the worst that happens is you crash your cycle and start doing daily water changes and dosing with prime until the tank is stable again. 
I also don’t answer big chain store employee questions with anything other they’re for my 75 gal. after one of them refused to sell me feeder fish and ghost shrimp when I told I was using them as feeders for turtles. Both were 25 cents at the time and labelled as feeders.

[Lonkley]

The box stores always have the most self righteous employees. Pretty ballsy for a store that pumps diseases to every tank with their filtration.

They also have an archaic corporate policy of an inch of fish per gallon. 

That said they deal with inexperienced people every day. Some of the conversations I overhear just make me shudder. 

[Tazalanche]

A big box store employee is welcome to provide their unsolicited advice & opinion to me. However, if I tell them what I want & they tell me I am limited on the quantity I can purchase based on their opinion, they just initiated a request for a conversation with their manager to override them or they just lost that entire sale & possibly any future business. That being said, I'm much less rigid with an LFS.

Her head would have exploded if she saw my last Aqua Huna pygmy cory order (March 06, 2023), that all went into a 20 gallon quarantine tank that was bone dry the day before. When I woke up at 5:45am, I filled the tank, added Seachem Safe, tossed in a cycled sponge filter and set the temp on the heater. At 10 AM the following was delivered & were fully acclimated in the 20 before noon:
Featherfin Rainbow Fish = 6
Blue Velvet Shrimp = 16
Golden Blue Eye Longfin Bushy Nose Pleco (1.0"-1.5") = 2
Pygmy Cory = 24 
Sterbai Cory = 8

They went through Cory's recommended med trio QT process & after a month with no losses, the sterbai were moved to my 135 gallon, while everyone else went into a 55 gallon with a few hundred nanofish & neocaridina shrimp in it. The 55 has an Eheim 2217 canister filter & that same sponge filter on it, but here we are 13 months later & they're still doing fine.

Edited April 2 by Tazalanche

[JettsPapa]

On 3/30/2024 at 10:26 AM, clownbaby said:

. . .  I have algae wafers, baby brine shrimp and once they get bigger I'll get bloodworms too; my mystery snail has honestly done a pretty bad job overall eating algae because I spoil him and give him lots of green beans and kale treats LMAO 

I just wanted to point out that algae wafers really aren't very good for corys.  They need more protein.

[clownbaby]

@JettsPapa good to know! I'll be sure to use brine shrimp more than the algae wafers right now, until I get some better and higher-protein food. I ordered some xtreme nano pellets for daily food, thank you for letting me know! 

[TOtrees]

Title reminds me of the many AITA or AITAH threads out there LOL.