My stem plants are melting/disintegrating.

[Gregs_Gal]

I have had a few different stem plants that have basically melted in the last several months. I have gotten them in a couple of different places. My latest plant that I ordered was Scarlet Temple and Bocopa Caroliniana (both from Aquarium Co-op) and it has pretty much died. The stems have basically disintegrated after I planted them (and at least 2 other plants have done the same thing. I have other stem plants that are doing great!) So far the plants that have died are Ludwigia Ovalis, Hygrophila Blue, Bocopa and Scarlet Temple. I have Water Sprite that's doing awesome as well as Anacharis (which isn't growing great but is still growing). I dose Easy Green, Easy Iron and Seachem Potassium at least twice a week. I have Anubias, Java ferns, bucephalandra (at least 7 different types) subwassertang, Java and Christmas Moss, Cardinalis, crypts and rosette swords. All of these seem to be doing great! 

I have 3 planted tanks and all 3 have the same substrate. I have fluval aqua soil topped with sand. And I put root tabs on the very bottom of the tank (in a Grid pattern before adding the soil). I just tested my water and all seems good with it. I have 0 Ammo, 0 Nitrite, 40 Nitrate, PH 7.6, GH 7, KH 4.5, Phosphate 200 and Alkalinity 80. I have attached a couple of pictures of what the stems are doing. I have Guppies, 2 types of Corydoras, Cherry Shrimp, a Nerite Snail, a Mystery Snail and some Ramshorn Snails.

Am I doing something wrong? 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Gregs_Gal

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/8/2022 at 12:58 PM, Gregs_Gal said:

I have gotten them in a couple of different places. My latest plant that I ordered was Scarlet Temple and it has pretty much died. The stems have basically disintegrated after I planted them (and at least 2 other plants have done the same thing.

I have this happen every time I try to get Scarlet Temple.  I would think it's a PH thing?  I have generally "good" water for plants, dosing CO2 and without dosing CO2, both times I have had that happen.  The stalks turn to mush on that plant for me.  No idea why.

@Mmiller2001 @Seattle_Aquarist Have you ever heard stories like this or do you have any knowledge as to what on earth would cause this reaction with this plant in particular?

I looked at the list of the other plants you mentioned.  I did have success with PSO and Bacopa as well as Jungle Val.  Those usually do fine for me.  (GH = high, KH = 40-80, PH = 6.8 or below)

[Gregs_Gal]

Thank you. I appreciate you tagging others as well. I have had several different plants do the same thing. 

[Mmiller2001]

Might be just in transit damage that it can't recover from. The bacopa is a pretty easy plant and should do fine in most tanks. I do consider any AR type plant as CO2 required. 

Without suggesting major changes to your water, I will fall back to quoting my favorite aquarist. "Sometimes, it's best to only invite those who like the soup you serve". I would move on from plants that struggle in your aquarium and try others. A similar looking plant can be found almost every time you go looking.

[Gregs_Gal]

Thank you so much for your help! I was able to save 1 stem of the Scarlet Temple. I wrapped the end in filter floss and placed that into an empty plant pot. Hopefully it will make it. I did the same to the last stem of Hygrophila Blue and it started to grow and I have sense planted it and its doing better. I just wasn't sure I was doing something wrong. Thanks again! 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Gregs_Gal

[Patrick_G]

It sounds like you're doing everything right, but you didn't mention your lighting. Scarlett temple seems to like a lot of it. What kind of light are you using and how long is your photoperiod? 

On 11/8/2022 at 2:35 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Without suggesting major changes to your water, I will fall back to quoting my favorite aquarist. "Sometimes, it's best to only invite those who like the soup you serve". I would move on from plants that struggle in your aquarium and try others. A similar looking plant can be found almost every time you go looking.

This is good advice for any type of horticulture. Figure out what grows well in your environment and still stick to those plants. 

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi All,

Like many species of aquarium plants which are not true aquatics but 'marginals' that live along the banks of rivers, streams, and lakes Hygrophila corymbosa it typically grown emersed (emerged) in plant nurseries and need to transition to submerged growth.  -Roy

[Gregs_Gal]

On 11/8/2022 at 4:57 PM, Patrick_G said:

It sounds like you're doing everything right, but you didn't mention your lighting. Scarlett temple seems to like a lot of it. What kind of light are you using and how long is your photoperiod? 

This is good advice for any type of horticulture. Figure out what grows well in your environment and still stick to those plants. 

Sorry about that! I am using 2 Hygger 22W LED Full Spectrum 24/7 24-30 inch lights set to 40%. My aquariums get light from a nearby window as well so I currently have the timers set to turn on at 9:00 am and off at 10:30 am and on again at 5:00 pm until 8:30 pm. I have been adjusting the times and power because I noticed some algae starting. Seems to be keeping it under control so far doing it this way.  As I said it gets a lot of light from the window so I dont keep the lights on very long in the morning(it's getting morning sun). Thank you for your help! I truly appreciate it!

Edited November 9, 2022 by Gregs_Gal

[lefty o]

dont feel bad, ive never been able to keep stem plants alive. plenty of others do great for me, but not stems.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Ludwigia did poorly in the 29g but in the 10g it has grown so much that the top is now continuing to grow along the surface of the water.  I figured out the key factor was the distance from the light.  The 29g was too deep, and the plant wanted higher light.

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

I agree with @Mmiller2001, plants like AR are definitely going to do better in Co2 tanks but that hasn't stopped me from trying red plants. I have one tiny bit of AR left that ended up doing "best" in my low tech tanks in a short cube with high light- it could do better if it didn't have all sorts of floaters above it.

Ludwigia Super Red was a hard one for me as well but easier than the AR in the end. I at first put it in a 20 tall- it has bright lights but clearly it wasn't bright enough to get it going. So I put it in the same tank as mentioned above with the AR- and it grows like crazy. I've taken to clipping the longest pieces and putting them in my 20 tall and those pieces do better now they are closer to the light- but still not perfect. They'll never be the colors that people like @Mmiller2001 can achieve with Co2 but they are another color and texture in my tank. 

I also have Ludwigia Red Needle leaf- which in my low tech tanks will never be red apparently it's just green but it takes well to a trim and replant.

I have lots of Bacopa- that stuff is really easy- probably the easiest of the stems. One of the only ones that takes well to a trim and replant right away and never dies. 

Do have to say though, I think when you get new stems you are better off floating them in the tank until they grow roots- they are close to the light too and that helps. I've had less failure that way. 

Edited November 9, 2022 by xXInkedPhoenixX

[Gregs_Gal]

On 11/9/2022 at 7:38 AM, lefty o said:

dont feel bad, ive never been able to keep stem plants alive. plenty of others do great for me, but not stems.

Thank you! I just hate to buy something and then see it die if I could try something different. 

On 11/9/2022 at 7:41 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

Ludwigia did poorly in the 29g but in the 10g it has grown so much that the top is now continuing to grow along the surface of the water.  I figured out the key factor was the distance from the light.  The 29g was too deep, and the plant wanted higher light.

Thank you!! I appreciate the help!! I never thought about the light not being bright enough. I saved a stem and wrapped a piece of filter floss around the bottom and put it in a plastic plant pot. I might try turning my lights to a higher power and see how that does. 

[Gregs_Gal]

On 11/9/2022 at 7:50 AM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

I agree with @Mmiller2001, plants like AR are definitely going to do better in Co2 tanks but that hasn't stopped me from trying red plants. I have one tiny bit of AR left that ended up doing "best" in my low tech tanks in a short cube with high light- it could do better if it didn't have all sorts of floaters above it.

Ludwigia Super Red was a hard one for me as well but easier than the AR in the end. I at first put it in a 20 tall- it has bright lights but clearly it wasn't bright enough to get it going. So I put it in the same tank as mentioned above with the AR- and it grows like crazy. I've taken to clipping the longest pieces and putting them in my 20 tall and those pieces do better now they are closer to the light- but still not perfect. They'll never be the colors that people like @Mmiller2001 can achieve with Co2 but they are another color and texture in my tank. 

I also have Ludwigia Red Needle leaf- which in my low tech tanks will never be red apparently it's just green but it takes well to a trim and replant.

I have lots of Bacopa- that stuff is really easy- probably the easiest of the stems. One of the only ones that takes well to a trim and replant right away and never dies. 

Do have to say though, I think when you get new stems you are better off floating them in the tank until they grow roots- they are close to the light too and that helps. I've had less failure that way. 

Thank you so much for your help! I will try adjusting my lights power and see if that will help. I did save one stem. I have it in a plastic plant pot but maybe I should float it like you suggested. They all came rooted so I thought they would be fine to plant. I'm thinking it might be best to take the advice of @Mmiller2001 and try a different plant! Thanks again! 

Edited November 9, 2022 by Gregs_Gal

[OceanTruth]

On 11/9/2022 at 9:50 AM, xXInkedPhoenixX said:

Do have to say though, I think when you get new stems you are better off floating them in the tank until they grow roots- they are close to the light too and that helps. I've had less failure that way. 

I definitely need to follow this advice more. Whenever I get too excited and plant right away I do get melting like in the pics from the original post.

[Gregs_Gal]

On 11/9/2022 at 10:41 AM, OceanTruth said:

I definitely need to follow this advice more. Whenever I get too excited and plant right away I do get melting like in the pics from the original 

Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone in this! 😀 I'm definitely going to follow the advice! 

[MattyM]

I've also had mixed results with stem plants, and Scarlett Temple is one that died on me too in multiple tanks. I wouldn't really say die/melted, just didn't look good after awhile, started to brown and get algae. This is with CO2, but not a ridiculous amount. Like it was mentioned before, I think it needs a lot of light, all the time. And that didn't work well with my other plants. 

With stems I win some, lose some. 

[Gregs_Gal]

On 11/9/2022 at 11:46 AM, MattyM said:

I've also had mixed results with stem plants, and Scarlett Temple is one that died on me too in multiple tanks. I wouldn't really say die/melted, just didn't look good after awhile, started to brown and get algae. This is with CO2, but not a ridiculous amount. Like it was mentioned before, I think it needs a lot of light, all the time. And that didn't work well with my other plants. 

With stems I win some, lose some. 

Wow. With CO2 and still didn't do well? Im glad to know that. If the stem I saved doesn't do well I won't be getting another one. I'm thinking of trying a bigger Sword plant instead. 

[JoeQ]

I didn't read this whole thread but what stuck out most in your initial post was you didn't mention your light (or you did and I missed it). The plants you mentioned doing well were all low light, to ambiant room light plants. A plant who can't photosynthesize or cant get the nutrients it needs will consume itself for nutrition instead (aka melt) Also contrary to Acoops website Scarlett Temple is not an easy plant (at least not their version). Last year, I was able to grow an easier version without co2 with ease but when attempting the harder version this year it slowly melted. I still have a nub left which hopefully will recover,  but im not holding my breath! If it were me, id concentrate on being able to grow easier stems (ovalis, flame boca) and progress to harder stems.

[JoeQ]

A easy way to tell if your light is bright enough is to observe how your stems react to the light. Do they open and closed based on the light? If they are closed all day, its not... if they open, but then close with 5 hours of light left they are  getting more than enough, and hopefully you have other plants still photosynthesising to battle the algea. Else you will need to Dim/Shorten the photo period. 

Edited November 10, 2022 by JoeQ
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