Stephen Zawacki Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Hi guys I had a Deal for my large show tank at my home to get a true breeding pair of discus, I ordered off of discus.com, they came today very lively got a proven pair of checkerboard pigeon discus, they came and from shipping their fins are banged up, what would you reccomend to heal the fins or should I let them heal naturally. Here are pictures, also the one discus, one of its pectoral fins seems crooked, or not straight should I be concerned also here are pictures, also would you reccomend a breeding cone? In the zoomed in pic, you can see the pectoral fin seems a little bent ? Their temporally In my 29 gallon, for qt 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Bummer. Not sure what the cause might have been. Maybe housed with some other boisterous cichlids? You just want to avoid over feeding, and make sure they don’t get infected (bacterial). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Zawacki Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) Ok, will the fins that are damaged heal, and the one that is a tad crooked, will that heal and straighten out and is there medicine you would reccomend to treat them. I paid 600 dollars for the pair want to make sure they don't die and stay healthy they are beautiful, also would you recommend a breeding cone? Edited February 24, 2022 by Stephen Zawacki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Folk Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Personally, I’d just keep water clean, temperature up between 83-85°-F, and stress low. Feed a mix of quality foods — black worms, and frozen entrees (Spirulina Brine, Blood worms, Krill). They’ll learn to eat whatever you feed. Variety helps them heal. The damaged fins may not repair without leaving marks. Just watch out for any fin rot or fungus. If that develops, I’d treat with the appropriate API meds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Zawacki Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 Ok thank you, are the damaged fins to far damaged or do they never go back to original condition also is the crooked fin due to a deficieny of calcium or magnesium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotope Biologist Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 That sounds like typical shipping damage. I’d follow @Fish Folks advice the fins will repair themselves with time and the crooks may or may not work themselves out. It isn’t due to a deficiency. What fish folk is referring to is sometimes the scar tissue is noticeable in the repaired fins. It’s kind of like our scar tissue on our skin. Just don’t add salt, discus fish have a very sensitive gill structure that allows them to uptake calcium and magnesium in acidic waters where uptake is generally harder for other fish. very beautiful fish wish you luck with your breeding pair 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Zawacki Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) Thank you. Also is there anything I could do, to better the chances of the crooked fin correct itself, also I have on hand melafix, is that a viable option, I don't have the Ned trio available at the moment. Edited February 24, 2022 by Stephen Zawacki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torrey Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 @Stephen Zawacki melafix has melaleuca in it, I would not recommend using it on discus for similar reasons it's contraindicated for all fish with labyrinth organs. While discus don't have labyrinth organs, they do have highly sensitive gills as explained above. They do best with ~80° water kept very clean... which tends to mean regular water changes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Zawacki Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 Ok thank you so it seems like the general consensus is to hold off any meds? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy's Fish Den Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 On 2/24/2022 at 5:24 PM, Biotope Biologist said: Just don’t add salt, discus fish have a very sensitive gill structure that allows them to uptake calcium and magnesium in acidic waters where uptake is generally harder for other fish. I've never heard this about discus, and have used salt many times to treat them rather than medications. As for OP, feed them well, keep water quality good with water changes, and the torn fins should heal. The crooked fin could be something genetic or from being cramped in bag or whatever. If genetic, it will be like that forever, I have seen a few discus with crooked or missing ventral fins before, never a pectoral fin though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Zawacki Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 Ok thank you when I texted the guy about it, he said it was from her being shipped and her pectoral fin getting banged around, so hopefully it's that, and can heal, but if it does not and all of their other fins heal then that will make her unique. Also my tank is heavily planted would salt harm my plants , because I don't want to do that? I have a variety of food also for them and testing water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrencher_Scott Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 On 2/25/2022 at 7:06 AM, Stephen Zawacki said: Ok thank you when I texted the guy about it, he said it was from her being shipped and her pectoral fin getting banged around, so hopefully it's that, and can heal, but if it does not and all of their other fins heal then that will make her unique. Also my tank is heavily planted would salt harm my plants , because I don't want to do that? I have a variety of food also for them and testing water Salt is bad for plants. Just leave them be at about 80 deg and super clean water. Discus need clean bacteria free water(lots of biological filtration) Watch very closely for any infection and go from there. I would not treat anything now, just give them peace and quiet, no stress. Like others said, good high protein foods for them too. I bet they will recover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotope Biologist Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 On 2/25/2022 at 6:45 AM, Andy's Fish Den said: I've never heard this about discus, and have used salt many times to treat them rather than medications. As for OP, feed them well, keep water quality good with water changes, and the torn fins should heal. The crooked fin could be something genetic or from being cramped in bag or whatever. If genetic, it will be like that forever, I have seen a few discus with crooked or missing ventral fins before, never a pectoral fin though. Just like everything it depends. In this case it depends on water chemistry and for how long you carry out salt baths. It’s specifically acidic water where salt is not great for them or angelfish as they have similar structures. It all has to do with ion gradients and the fact that these two fish specifically can actively pump calcium and magnesium against these gradients. If the fish are kept in neutral pH and higher gh and kh it’s not as much of an issue. Which from what I understand is becoming more common as higher F generations become available. Hope this helps explain! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Zawacki Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 Thank you, also I'm keeping them at 83 to 84 degrees is that good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick_G Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 @Biotope Biologist, thanks for the rabbit hole! I don’t understand the chemistry of this paper but there’s a lot of info someone with freshman chemistry and an interest in fish biology can understand. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1095643313002006 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotope Biologist Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 On 2/25/2022 at 8:47 AM, Patrick_G said: @Biotope Biologist, thanks for the rabbit hole! I don’t understand the chemistry of this paper but there’s a lot of info someone with freshman chemistry and an interest in fish biology can understand. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1095643313002006 That is one of the papers I was referencing with my comment! I did a bunch of research to do a youtube video on how water chemistry and fish physiology interact because there isn’t easily digestible info out there for people without college training. And I think if you relate the two it’ll click things into place for alot of people. I may come back to it. It’s all filmed I just need to do animations and editing. I lost interest in a lot of things over the last few months just due to… the world… but it’s still on the table. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Zawacki Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 What is the sweet spot for the temp for them I'm getting conflicting info, so people are telling me 88 to 89, then so people are saying 80 degrees, is around the middle 83, 84 good ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Duck Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 On 2/25/2022 at 10:53 AM, Biotope Biologist said: That is one of the papers I was referencing with my comment! I did a bunch of research to do a youtube video on how water chemistry and fish physiology interact because there isn’t easily digestible info out there for people without college training. And I think if you relate the two it’ll click things into place for alot of people. I may come back to it. It’s all filmed I just need to do animations and editing. I lost interest in a lot of things over the last few months just due to… the world… but it’s still on the table. Do you know if studies have been done in other species from the same waters as angels and discus? Seems like they may also be adapted to pull minerals out of their very soft, mineral deficient, native waters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyGenusCaps Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 On 2/25/2022 at 10:53 AM, Biotope Biologist said: I may come back to it. It’s all filmed I just need to do animations and editing. I lost interest in a lot of things over the last few months just due to… the world… but it’s still on the table. I hope you do come back to it. It would be a great resource! The world isn't necessarily going to head in a direction that will become more motivating though. Sorry. On 2/25/2022 at 11:14 AM, Odd Duck said: Do you know if studies have been done in other species from the same waters as angels and discus? Seems like they may also be adapted to pull minerals out of their very soft, mineral deficient, native waters. There have been a bunch of studies on neon tetras with pH and interactions with various other materials. I have a number of them saved on my another hard drive. So, if @Biotope Biologist doesn't have any readily accessible, then I can scrounge around a bit for you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrencher_Scott Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) On 2/25/2022 at 9:06 AM, Stephen Zawacki said: What is the sweet spot for the temp for them I'm getting conflicting info, so people are telling me 88 to 89, then so people are saying 80 degrees, is around the middle 83, 84 good ? 75 to 85 I think is correct. Again, it is not super important. Plants don't do well at high temps either. I keep mine at 78 to whatever the tank goes to. In other words the heater is set at 78 and my controller is set to kill it at 85 if it sticks on. I keep my house at about 75 and the tank likes to sit at 80 to 81 with the lights, filter pump and UV with the lid closed. If I open it in will drop to 78 after a few hours. Again, it's not critical. Just like all fish they swim in differing waters all the time. Edited February 25, 2022 by Wrencher_Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Zawacki Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) Ok thank you how necessary is a breeding cone also, I have one but same thing as the temp thing, people have said they do and do not need one? Edited February 25, 2022 by Stephen Zawacki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biotope Biologist Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 I think I have some studies done on corydoras and other catfish I will DM you though so we don’t derail @Stephen Zawacki thread so they can still get the discus advice they need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrencher_Scott Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 On 2/25/2022 at 7:06 AM, Stephen Zawacki said: Ok thank you when I texted the guy about it, he said it was from her being shipped and her pectoral fin getting banged around, so hopefully it's that, and can heal, but if it does not and all of their other fins heal then that will make her unique. Also my tank is heavily planted would salt harm my plants , because I don't want to do that? I have a variety of food also for them and testing water The only problem I see is with lots of plants you will have more organics in the water. The plants rot as they grow. This is a breeding ground for bacteria. High temps are a breeding ground for bacteria too as far as that goes. I personally would not do Discus with lots of plants. I guess make sure to trim any dying stuff away asap. and have huge amounts of filtration for the fish. On 2/25/2022 at 9:25 AM, Stephen Zawacki said: Ok thank you how necessary is a breeding cone also, I have one but same thing as the temp thing, people have said they do and do not need one? You really need to read up on them esp if you want them to breed. They are a "special" fish. Getting them to breed and keeping the fry is not easy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Zawacki Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 Ok the plants I have have had very little die off, and the pair for the pair, he reccomended keeping them in my 29 so they focus on breeding, I have a fluval 207 rated for 20-40 gallons, with a in line uvc sterilizer. Is there anything else I should add? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrencher_Scott Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) On 2/25/2022 at 9:32 AM, Stephen Zawacki said: Ok the plants I have have had very little die off, and the pair for the pair, he reccomended keeping them in my 29 so they focus on breeding, I have a fluval 207 rated for 20-40 gallons, with a in line uvc sterilizer. Is there anything else I should add? In that fluval I would slowly change over any of that biomax and carbon over to course foam, like 30 ppi. Foam is a much better biomedia than biomax and carbon isn't needed. As for breeding just read up on it. I don't know much about that. I do know you need perfect water and very specific tank setup to be successful. Just curious, why do you want to breed them? Sell or just for fun? Oh, what UV do you have? I'm always looking. Edited February 25, 2022 by Wrencher_Scott 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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