I may have achieved a water change-free cycle!

[Blaha]

I may have hit the point of 0 water changes in my 29G. Full self sustaining! I haven't done a change in 4 weeks, just top-offs. I haven't dosed fertilizer in over a month. I haven't used root tabs in a couple months, and my crypt luscens is doing fine. I'll have to keep monitoring, obviously, but water changes are only really going to happen when I clean my sponges and I take a couple gallons out in that process, which was done at the last water change. Water is slightly cloudy, and slightly green which could be from the algae under the lily pads that the light shines through. There's a bit of algae too, but if it reached equilibrium in this state then how different is it from a pond really? They are not crystal clear and algae free either. The fish don't seem stressed either, and that is the important bit

[Fish Folk]

If you have a deep substrate, this is definitely possible. Take care not to dig deep / gravel-vac deep. You’ll risk releasing gasses from anaerobic bacteria work down low than can mess up your balance.

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 2/22/2022 at 1:18 PM, Blaha said:

I may have hit the point of 0 water changes in my 29G. Full self sustaining! I haven't done a change in 4 weeks, just top-offs. I haven't dosed fertilizer in over a month. I haven't used root tabs in a couple months, and my crypt luscens is doing fine. I'll have to keep monitoring, obviously, but water changes are only really going to happen when I clean my sponges and I take a couple gallons out in that process, which was done at the last water change. Water is slightly cloudy, and slightly green which could be from the algae under the lily pads that the light shines through. There's a bit of algae too, but if it reached equilibrium in this state then how different is it from a pond really? They are not crystal clear and algae free either. The fish don't seem stressed either, and that is the important bit

I don't get it. What are you talking about?

Your test strips clearly show you have about 50ppm nitrate. The reason we change water is to get rid of nitrate. 

[lefty o]

if you get things in harmony, they can go very long without changing water. there's people that literally never change water, myself ive gone as long as 2 years in my 120, normal is 6 months between(usually algae on the glass bugs me, so i tear into it), and its not exactly lightly stocked. currently my 55 which is fairly lightly stocked has had 1 water change since last may.

[Patrick_G]

In a lightly stocked and heavily planted tank it’s possible to get nitrate to stop building up because the plants are using it up faster than the fish are producing it. 
@Blaha, I’m going to be a killjoy,  I’m guessing you’re not quite there yet. I suspect nitrite is building up, but slowly because of your light stocking and the relatively short time since the last change. I think a bunch of fast growing stem plants and floaters would push you into completely balanced territory. I do think you’re at a point where small infrequent water changes are all you need. 
 

[Blaha]

I'm still testing twice a week and if it needs it it needs it. 

To my eyes, though, it looks between 25 and 50 and it's been around that for a while now, not really raising or lowering. Even last November or so I was needing changes every test, or every other. Changing some water every 3-5 days, and I've never been able to hold stable for this long before. I don't gravel vac as often as I probably should though because the only real area of exposed gravel is next to my crypts and I don't want to take the nutrients from there.

It will still get changed on a schedule to a point because I remove a few gallons of water when I clean my sponges and that's a 10%+ change for that. I clean those every 6-8 weeks.

I do appreciate any and all compliment, concern, criticism, and stories! It's the best way to keep learning

[Wrencher_Scott]

ah I see, you have been at around 50ppm nitrate for a long time now. That makes sense. 

I was expecting zero with that title. 

Nice.

Also, what's the deal with the hardness? Does that color mean off the charts? 

Maybe your top offs should include some RO at least until it's lower?

Edited February 24, 2022 by Wrencher_Scott

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 2/24/2022 at 8:25 AM, Patrick_G said:

In a lightly stocked and heavily planted tank it’s possible to get nitrate to stop building up because the plants are using it up faster than the fish are producing it. 
@Blaha, I’m going to be a killjoy,  I’m guessing you’re not quite there yet. I suspect nitrite is building up, but slowly because of your light stocking and the relatively short time since the last change. I think a bunch of fast growing stem plants and floaters would push you into completely balanced territory. I do think you’re at a point where small infrequent water changes are all you need. 
 

Why do you think nitrite is building up? The test shows zero.

Guessing you meant nitrate? 

[Patrick_G]

On 2/24/2022 at 1:02 PM, Wrencher_Scott said:

Why do you think nitrite is building up? The test shows zero.

Guessing you meant nitrate? 

Oops, yes I did mean nitrate! Thanks for the correction. 

[TheDukeAnumber1]

On 2/24/2022 at 7:18 AM, Fish Folk said:

You’ll risk releasing gasses from anaerobic bacteria work down low than can mess up your balance.

I believe this is an internet rumor and isn't true. I've never had a issue disturning deeper substrate beds and IIRC on a live stream Cory had a similar opinion.

[Streetwise]

I will intentionally release gasses from deep layers if I am in the mood. I don’t worry about the inhabitants when I do it.

The issue that Diana Walstad mentioned with extra-deep substrate, and I have experienced, is plant roots being less happy, resulting in stalled growth.

This is why I have tried to edit old tanks to get a better soil/cap balance.

[Blaha]

 

On 2/24/2022 at 3:57 PM, Wrencher_Scott said:

ah I see, you have been at around 50ppm nitrate for a long time now. That makes sense. 

I was expecting zero with that title. 

Nice.

Also, what's the deal with the hardness? Does that color mean off the charts? 

Maybe your top offs should include some RO at least until it's lower?

I didn't realize it sounded like it was zero, but also you do want some nitrates to feed the plants. Before they grew and when I was doing changes a lot it would get up to 100-200 within a few days of a change to bring it down to 25-50 where it is now. Closer to 50 I understand now.

Yes, it's just off the charts. It's how the water is around the NE Ohio/Lake Erie area. on the API kit which goes from like yellow to cherry red, it came out wine colored ha

The substrate is like 2 inches I think, maybe 1.5. I wanted it deeper than past tanks because I use to do really shallow, but wanted more space for the roots It wasn't made super deep because I didn't know at the time that it helped keep the tank cleaner. I didn't want it too deep for aesthetic purposes. Its a basic gravel with a finer gravel mixed in the lower half. 

[Wrencher_Scott]

On 2/24/2022 at 1:47 PM, Blaha said:

 

I didn't realize it sounded like it was zero, but also you do want some nitrates to feed the plants. Before they grew and when I was doing changes a lot it would get up to 100-200 within a few days of a change to bring it down to 25-50 where it is now. Closer to 50 I understand now.

 

It went from like 50 to 100-200 in a few days?! wow! That's crazy.

[Patrick_G]

What’s the Nitrate level of your tap water? 

[Jennifer V]

@Blaha @Streetwise what's the magic number as far as substrate depth? I know sand is about one inch but what about soil/gravel? 

[Tanked]

On 2/24/2022 at 4:47 PM, Blaha said:

Yes, it's just off the charts. It's how the water is around the NE Ohio/Lake Erie area. on the API kit which goes from like yellow to cherry red, it came out wine colored ha

Same hard water in SW Ohio, but the KH seems to lock in at 40 ppm😕

[Katherine]

On 2/25/2022 at 8:58 AM, Tanked said:

Same hard water in SW Ohio, but the KH seems to lock in at 40 ppm😕

Mine too in western Iowa.

[Blaha]

No Nitrates in the tap

We got all that calcium up around this region, idk what's the source of your hardnesses. We have to take the faucet ends off once a year and de calcify them

[Tanked]

Took a dip into a hard water rabbit hole on Friday.   Depending on the website, the numbers are all over the map so to speak, making them useless. Two different test kits indicate 300+ ppm. Several websites tell me that my hardness level is 132+- ppm. I consulted a chemist friend who believes the source comes from Ohio's rock being mostly Limestone making "extremely hard water" very likely.

More on topic: Unless there is an error in my notes, My 10 gallon project tank contains: Anacharis, PSO, Wisteria, pest snails, and pool sand.  It hasn't had a water change in at least 6 months.  The base line ppm was 0 Nitrate, Nitrite and Chlorine, 40 Kh., 6.2 ph. and 300+gh.  Now the plants require some Easy Green in addition to snail poop, so the Nitrates hover at <50ppm and the ph is 6.6-6.8

 

@KatherineDepending on the source of information,  you share the same "extremely hard" water traits that we do, unless you are in the the southern corner of Iowa. 

[Streetwise]

I have medium hard water in Vermont. There is lots of limestone from ancient reefs. While I have seen what scale does to water pressure tanks and dishwashers, my tanks have been very happy, and I haven’t had to worry about minerals.

I want to see if I can keep other shrimp besides Neocaridina and Amano.

[Blaha]

I am interested to try and keep shrimp since I've been trying to think of a set up for my first ever time of having two tanks running. I'm thinking like guppies or something, and maybe shrimp. I'm trying to find the time to watch the member talk with the Shrimp King because I know very little about shrimp

I definitely didn't think this would become a whole thread, so I thought I'd share another test result since it's been about a week since I made the post

Edited February 28, 2022 by Blaha
Had to shrink the picture