Brackish water with plants?

[CanadianFishDad]

Hey Nerms! I just added my first Green spotted puffer to the fishroom. My daughter named it pickles. from alot of the research online I am seeing that they like brackish water, some people also keep them freshwater as well. After watching @Cory puffer talks on YouTube and his puffer videos, it seems most puffers prefer the plants. I would love to keep my puffer in the best enviornment for him. I have no experience with brackish water, so I am wondering what is the next step to keep plants in brackish?

Thanks 🙂 

[Levi_Aquatics]

I also dont know a lot about brackish however I know that mangroves can live in brackish and would also provide a cool root structure to add some interest to the aquarium for him.

[Chris]

Unfortunately, plants very rarely do well in brackish water. Cryptocorynes, Jungle Val, Hornwort, and Anacharis are all touted as brackish-tolerant plants up to very low levels, but I've found that most of them waste away over the course of weeks or months. I've tried several times, lol. I ended up just using silk plants in my low-end brackish aquariums. Mangroves would be an exception, but that's an emersed-grown plant.

Green Spotted Puffers are going to probably need mid-end/high-end brackish water, not the low-end that some plants will tolerate anyway. I believe @Zenzokeeps his at like 1.008 or so - I keep mine at 1.015, closer to saltwater levels. The specific level doesn't matter as much (some people keep them successfully at 1.025 - full saltwater), but I'd say anything below 1.004 is probably too low. I think Zenzo is also experimenting with some plants in his brackish tanks, but I think it was in a low-end brackish setup, not his GSP tank. I set my GSP tank up more like a saltwater tank - the tank is filtered with live rock, with a filter in the tank just for flow.

I kept my first GSP in freshwater until he was about 2", and then I slowly acclimated the entire tank up to around 1.010 after that. I only raised it by around .001 per week - the cycle remained intact that way. If you do it too quickly, you'll likely kill off quite a few nitrifying bacteria. My second GSP (the current one) was purchased at around 3", and I actually acclimated him overnight to 1.015 without issue. They're hardy fish, truly.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Chris

[CanadianFishDad]

On 1/3/2022 at 10:30 PM, Chris said:

Unfortunately, plants very rarely do well in brackish water. Cryptocorynes, Jungle Val, Hornwort, and Anacharis are all touted as brackish-tolerant plants up to very low levels, but I've found that most of them waste away over the course of weeks or months. I've tried several times, lol. I ended up just using silk plants in my low-end brackish aquariums. Mangroves would be an exception, but that's an emersed-grown plant.

Green Spotted Puffers are going to probably need mid-end/high-end brackish water, not the low-end that some plants will tolerate anyway. I believe @Zenzokeeps his at like 1.008 or so - I keep mine at 1.015, closer to saltwater levels. The specific level doesn't matter as much (some people keep them successfully at 1.025 - full saltwater), but I'd say anything below 1.004 is probably too low. I think Zenzo is also experimenting with some plants in his brackish tanks, but I think it was in a low-end brackish setup, not his GSP tank. I set my GSP tank up more like a saltwater tank - the tank is filtered with live rock, with a filter in the tank just for flow.

I kept my first GSP in freshwater until he was about 2", and then I slowly acclimated the entire tank up to around 1.010 after that. I only raised it by around .001 per week - the cycle remained intact that way. If you do it too quickly, you'll likely kill off quite a few nitrifying bacteria. My second GSP (the current one) was purchased at around 3", and I actually acclimated him overnight to 1.015 without issue. They're hardy fish, truly.

Thank you for the feedback, my general understanding of planted tanks was that they do not tolerate salinity and thus why I don't treat my planted tank with salt if and when It needed it. I am not very educated on the brackish/salt water side as I have always had freshwater. I don't mind tearing some of these plants out of this tank for the puffer and slowly converting it to brackish, when you water change, do you prepare a quantity of water with salt and conditioner and add that to the tank? Or can you change with freshwater and over the course of a few days, raise the salinity back up?

[Chris]

On 1/3/2022 at 10:43 PM, CanadianFishDad said:

Thank you for the feedback, my general understanding of planted tanks was that they do not tolerate salinity and thus why I don't treat my planted tank with salt if and when It needed it. I am not very educated on the brackish/salt water side as I have always had freshwater. I don't mind tearing some of these plants out of this tank for the puffer and slowly converting it to brackish, when you water change, do you prepare a quantity of water with salt and conditioner and add that to the tank? Or can you change with freshwater and over the course of a few days, raise the salinity back up?

I usually mix the water in buckets. I take a 5 gallon bucket, add my water, condition it, and then mix my salt in. You can manually stir it to mix the salt, but a cheap powerhead makes things much easier. You don't want to add salt directly to the tank most of the time, since it can burn fish and too much of a rapid shift in salinity can disrupt the nitrogen cycle. Something like this calculator makes it really easy:

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/DirectSaltCalculator.php

You'll want to check the level of salt in the water with a refractometer or hydrometer, though. Refractometers are more accurate, but cost around $20 and need to be calibrated. Hydrometers are less accurate but are closer to $10 (here, at least) and are calibrated from the factory. I have both, and use both frequently.

What kind of salt are you planning on using? The Instant Ocean brand is readily available and cheap.

[CorydorasEthan]

On 1/3/2022 at 9:21 PM, CanadianFishDad said:

Hey Nerms! I just added my first Green spotted puffer to the fishroom. My daughter named it pickles. from alot of the research online I am seeing that they like brackish water, some people also keep them freshwater as well. After watching @Cory puffer talks on YouTube and his puffer videos, it seems most puffers prefer the plants. I would love to keep my puffer in the best enviornment for him. I have no experience with brackish water, so I am wondering what is the next step to keep plants in brackish?

Thanks 🙂 

Though I've never tested it out myself, I have read that Java fern are hardy and can tolerate brackish water tanks.

[Ambush0908]

Hello,

I keep a brackish tank with Endlers and Fiddler Crabs.  I am normally between 1.005 and 1.008 so I am on the low end.  I have Java fern and Anubias in the tank with a Fluval Aquasky.   I would not say they are growing like crazy but they are definitely not dying.    They look healthy.  No fertilizer and the light is not directly on top of them because of the way I have it set up.  
 

[Chris]

On 1/4/2022 at 8:52 AM, CorydorasEthan said:

Though I've never tested it out myself, I have read that Java fern are hardy and can tolerate brackish water tanks.

 

On 1/4/2022 at 12:41 PM, Ambush0908 said:

Hello,

I keep a brackish tank with Endlers and Fiddler Crabs.  I am normally between 1.005 and 1.008 so I am on the low end.  I have Java fern and Anubias in the tank with a Fluval Aquasky.   I would not say they are growing like crazy but they are definitely not dying.    They look healthy.  No fertilizer and the light is not directly on top of them because of the way I have it set up.  
 

In my experience, both my Java Fern and Anubias stagnated and slowly deteriorated over the course of 9-10 months or so. They didn't rot completely, but they probably would have, given a longer period of time.

What exact species of Anubias do you have, if you don't mind me asking?

[Zenzo]

On 1/3/2022 at 7:30 PM, Chris said:

Unfortunately, plants very rarely do well in brackish water. Cryptocorynes, Jungle Val, Hornwort, and Anacharis are all touted as brackish-tolerant plants up to very low levels, but I've found that most of them waste away over the course of weeks or months. I've tried several times, lol. I ended up just using silk plants in my low-end brackish aquariums. Mangroves would be an exception, but that's an emersed-grown plant.

Green Spotted Puffers are going to probably need mid-end/high-end brackish water, not the low-end that some plants will tolerate anyway. I believe @Zenzokeeps his at like 1.008 or so - I keep mine at 1.015, closer to saltwater levels. The specific level doesn't matter as much (some people keep them successfully at 1.025 - full saltwater), but I'd say anything below 1.004 is probably too low. I think Zenzo is also experimenting with some plants in his brackish tanks, but I think it was in a low-end brackish setup, not his GSP tank. I set my GSP tank up more like a saltwater tank - the tank is filtered with live rock, with a filter in the tank just for flow.

I kept my first GSP in freshwater until he was about 2", and then I slowly acclimated the entire tank up to around 1.010 after that. I only raised it by around .001 per week - the cycle remained intact that way. If you do it too quickly, you'll likely kill off quite a few nitrifying bacteria. My second GSP (the current one) was purchased at around 3", and I actually acclimated him overnight to 1.015 without issue. They're hardy fish, truly.

As far as plants, I have only had success with Java fern and mangroves. Everything else that I have tried so far struggled. As far as specific gravity, I don't go too far down the rabbit hole of having it specific (pun intended) to each brackish tank. Most of my brackish tanks fall somewhere between 1.005 and 1.008. My GSP tank is usually on the higher end of this range, but it varies by water change.

[Chris]

On 1/4/2022 at 1:22 PM, Zenzo said:

As far as plants, I have only had success with Java fern and mangroves. Everything else that I have tried so far struggled. As far as specific gravity, I don't go too far down the rabbit hole of having it specific (pun intended) to each brackish tank. Most of my brackish tanks fall somewhere between 1.005 and 1.008. My GSP tank is usually on the higher end of this range, but it varies by water change.

Good to know. Perhaps I've just been trying faulty Java Ferns in my low-end brackish tanks, lol.

Perhaps I'll have to give it another try sometime.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Chris

[Ambush0908]

I do not mind you asking, but I am also not sure.   It was given to me a while ago and I moved it to my brackish tank when I was trying to deal with a BBA outbreak.  It was more of an experiment to see if the algae would die off.  It eventually did by the way.😀  I am fairly confident that it is nana petite.  It has been about 5 months so your analysis may end up being correct.   So far no die off but I am surprised because I have not had that much luck in the past.  Previously I tried Java fern and it would die within weeks.   One change I did make was I added an air stone and increased the filter flow.  This was for the crabs and not the plants but figured I would mention it.  By the way, I love keeping these crabs.   I have a couple that are almost 2 years old.  It is a nice alternative if you are looking for something different.  And who isn’t in this hobby!!  😜

[Chris]

On 1/4/2022 at 1:37 PM, Ambush0908 said:

I do not mind you asking, but I am also not sure.   It was given to me a while ago and I moved it to my brackish tank when I was trying to deal with a BBA outbreak.  It was more of an experiment to see if the algae would die off.  It eventually did by the way.😀  I am fairly confident that it is nana petite.  It has been about 5 months so your analysis may end up being correct.   So far no die off but I am surprised because I have not had that much luck in the past.  Previously I tried Java fern and it would die within weeks.   One change I did make was I added an air stone and increased the filter flow.  This was for the crabs and not the plants but figured I would mention it.  By the way, I love keeping these crabs.   I have a couple that are almost 2 years old.  It is a nice alternative if you are looking for something different.  And who isn’t in this hobby!!  😜

I'm glad it's worked well for you!

That looks liked normal java fern to me, or maybe a narrow-leafed variety. Fiddlers are very cool! I kept some Red-Claw Crabs for a while - they were endlessly entertaining.

 

[Zenzo]

On 1/4/2022 at 10:26 AM, Chris said:

Good to know. Perhaps I've just been trying faulty Java Ferns in my low-end brackish tanks, lol.

Perhaps I'll have to give it another try sometime.

Yeah, the first couple of time I tried it was a failure. Since then, I have successfully kept some alive immersed (growing on my waterfall), and in a 20 gallon brackish tank that I slowly increased the salinity. I started it fresh and increased it to around 1.005 over many weeks. These plants still look good, and it has been a couple of months now at those levels. 

[Chris]

On 1/4/2022 at 1:42 PM, Zenzo said:

Yeah, the first couple of time I tried it was a failure. Since then, I have successfully kept some alive immersed (growing on my waterfall), and in a 20 gallon brackish tank that I slowly increased the salinity. I started it fresh and increased it to around 1.005 over many weeks. These plants still look good, and it has been a couple of months now at those levels. 

Interesting. I did have better success in my 36 gallon (Figure 8 Puffer and Bumblebee Gobies) while I was slowly acclimating the entire tank up to 1.004, since they were all purchased in freshwater. But, most of those plants ended up going downhill over time. I'm fairly certain I had Java Fern Windelov in that tank, and it didn't seem to hold up well at all. If I remember correctly, my Anubias Nana and Coffeefolia didn't make it for long, but the Anubias Gold Coin I tried actually survived for a few months before I moved it to a freshwater tank. A piece of Golden Pothos survived for more than a year, but it eventually began to shrink and dry out.

All of the plants I've simply dropped into the tank at 1.004 haven't made it - I still have one piece of Jungle Val that's technically alive, but it's rotting.

Most plants have the ability to soak up some humidity through the air - I wonder if that'd play a role in Java Fern doing well emersed, It's an inefficient way of getting water, but living in brackish water seems to be a completely inefficient process for plants, anyway.

[Ambush0908]

Thanks Chris!!!   I don’t have a shot of the Anubias but if I can get one I will post and see what you think that is as well!  I actually have red claw crab in there as well.  Somehow he hitchhiked over when I switched tanks.  Still not sure how and I hadn’t seen him in months.   🤷🏻‍♂️

[Zenzo]

On 1/4/2022 at 10:55 AM, Chris said:

Interesting. I did have better success in my 36 gallon (Figure 8 Puffer and Bumblebee Gobies) while I was slowly acclimating the entire tank up to 1.004, since they were all purchased in freshwater. But, most of those plants ended up going downhill over time. I'm fairly certain I had Java Fern Windelov in that tank, and it didn't seem to hold up well at all. If I remember correctly, my Anubias Nana and Coffeefolia didn't make it for long, but the Anubias Gold Coin I tried actually survived for a few months before I moved it to a freshwater tank. A piece of Golden Pothos survived for more than a year, but it eventually began to shrink and dry out.

All of the plants I've simply dropped into the tank at 1.004 haven't made it - I still have one piece of Jungle Val that's technically alive, but it's rotting.

Most plants have the ability to soak up some humidity through the air - I wonder if that'd play a role in Java Fern doing well emersed, It's an inefficient way of getting water, but living in brackish water seems to be a completely inefficient process for plants, anyway.

My Java fern in the water fall is in the stream of the fall though, so it is getting constant water. I am also trying some Anubias immersed as well. So far, it's terrible! LOL

[Chris]

On 1/4/2022 at 1:57 PM, Zenzo said:

My Java fern in the water fall is in the stream of the fall though, so it is getting constant water. I am also trying some Anubias immersed as well. So far, it's terrible! LOL

Lol, welcome to my world!

I was thinking that it might be easier for a plant to get the water it needs from two sources (both brackish water through roots and humidity (freshwater) by absorption through leaves) than being completely submerged and only having access to brackish water. I'd guess that filtering out all that salt is probably inefficient, so maybe another process like absorbing freshwater from the air is able to supplement the plant enough to keep it from dehydrating. Usually, absorbing water through leaves would be an inefficient process, but maybe it's an efficient one compared to filtering out salt from brackish water?

No evidence to back that up, just a thought.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Chris

[CanadianFishDad]

On 1/3/2022 at 11:22 PM, Chris said:

I usually mix the water in buckets. I take a 5 gallon bucket, add my water, condition it, and then mix my salt in. You can manually stir it to mix the salt, but a cheap powerhead makes things much easier. You don't want to add salt directly to the tank most of the time, since it can burn fish and too much of a rapid shift in salinity can disrupt the nitrogen cycle. Something like this calculator makes it really easy:

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/DirectSaltCalculator.php

You'll want to check the level of salt in the water with a refractometer or hydrometer, though. Refractometers are more accurate, but cost around $20 and need to be calibrated. Hydrometers are less accurate but are closer to $10 (here, at least) and are calibrated from the factory. I have both, and use both frequently.

What kind of salt are you planning on using? The Instant Ocean brand is readily available and cheap.

Right now I have on Hand API Aquarium salt but from what I am reading, this salt will not work? I am very new to the brackish setup but I just ordered a Refractometer that will show up tomorrow. I want to create ideal conditions for this puffer. 

 

I would love to keep the plants but it is not a end all for me as I do already have a few planted tanks in my fish shed. I was ultimately looking to create an ideal environment. From all the feedback here we are getting, I am coming to realize that the water quality is of utmost importance but the salinity level can vary a bit. I have purposely been raising bladder snails with my Shrimp tank in order to feed a puffer when I did get one. 

 

Man I hope I can get this setup in time to allow for proper keep for my little guy. He did eat some frozen blood worms on day 1 and I am going to introduce some snails today. 

Does it need to be marine salt for brackish conditions?

[Chris]

On 1/4/2022 at 3:33 PM, CanadianFishDad said:

Right now I have on Hand API Aquarium salt but from what I am reading, this salt will not work? I am very new to the brackish setup but I just ordered a Refractometer that will show up tomorrow. I want to create ideal conditions for this puffer. 

 

I would love to keep the plants but it is not a end all for me as I do already have a few planted tanks in my fish shed. I was ultimately looking to create an ideal environment. From all the feedback here we are getting, I am coming to realize that the water quality is of utmost importance but the salinity level can vary a bit. I have purposely been raising bladder snails with my Shrimp tank in order to feed a puffer when I did get one. 

 

Man I hope I can get this setup in time to allow for proper keep for my little guy. He did eat some frozen blood worms on day 1 and I am going to introduce some snails today. 

Does it need to be marine salt for brackish conditions?

Yes, marine salt will provide the proper minerals and salt content. Aquarium salt is something a little different.

The Instant Ocean (purple bag, not reef crystals) is probably the cheapest option in the US. It's what I use now, although in the past I've used other salts. They're all pretty much the same in terms of usability when it comes to a brackish tank.

[Expectorating_Aubergine]

Your best bet is to go with macro algae. There are many that can handle brackish conditions. Lots of them look interesting, and some even look like higher plants ( Caulerpa taxifolia).

Edited February 16, 2022 by Expectorating_Aubergine

[CanadianFishDad]

I thought it would be helpful to post an update here. This picture is my GSP who is in his new home in the fishroom. He just got out of quarentine! Mind you its a bit earlier than I would like but he moved to a tank all by himself anyway. 

After some advice on Specfic gravity reccomendations from you guys, I started him on a drip acclimation and the tank it is currently sitting at 80 Degrees with a specific gravity of 1.005. Im thinking over the next few weeks I will bring him too 1.008. He has already downed two cherry shrimp and loves when I feed him bladder snails 🙂

[Biotope Biologist]

Sorry I caught this thread late. There is macroalgae that can survive and even thrive in mid/high brackish tanks. Chaeto algae for example I have heard does really well in mid brackish. I haven’t been able to test this yet as my brackish tank is delayed due to mangrove issues (I think the humidity levels in my house are too low). 
 

You can also grow some types of Vallisneria in low/mid brackish. They tend not to like it above 1.012 in my experience. You can also shop for some Zostera but they are far less common as estuary tanks are just becoming popular.

 

Cute puffer! And welcome to the dark side of aquarium keeping. Brackish seems to be catching on, on this forum. Maybe it’s all the puffer dads/moms.

[Irene]

While doing research on brackish tanks, I found a list of plants and what specific gravity they will survive in. Seems to match many people's experiences on this post. Enjoy!

https://thebrackishtank.tumblr.com/post/107155036207/planting-the-brackish-aquarium-theres-a-bit-of-a

[BAT]

Thanks @Irene! This is VERY helpful

[Eric R]

It's been mentioned a few times now, but if I were to try a brackish planted tank, I would aim for 1.015 SG and keep mangroves and several species of marine noncalcerous macrolagaes. They can look really amazing in an aquarium and would make an incredible brackish setup. I'd skip the chaetomorpha, but would include Caulerpa prolifera, and there are some reports that the red Gracilaria macroalgaes work in brackish and they look nice.

Here's some info I found, though not a lot of well documented successful tanks. I need to acclimate my freshwater mangrove tank to full marine (1.026 SG) at some point, and it's going to have macroalgae, so I may try adding the macros around 1.013 or 1.015 SG and see how they do. Here's some more info I found:

https://www.plantedtank.net/threads/brackish-macroalgae-image-heavy.360833/
https://www.tfhmagazine.com/articles/saltwater/a-closer-look-at-caulerpa-common-aquarium-species-and-their-care-full-article

If you're looking where to purchase macroalgae, here are a few common sources:

https://www.reefcleaners.org/aquarium-store/plants-macroalgae

https://www.algaebarn.com/shop/macroalgae/

https://www.live-plants.com/

Also, here's a picture of an incredible planted, fully marine macroalgae tank from Tigahboy for some inspiration (tank thread link)

Edited February 16, 2022 by Eric R