Water Conditioner - ammonia, nitrite, nitrate

[CalmedByFish]

When a water conditioner says it "detoxifies ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate," does that mean

A) Bacteria can no longer use the ammonia and nitrite to maintain the cycle?

B) The plants can't use the nitrate?

C) Those substances won't show up on my test kits?

D) The ammonia will only be "detoxified" briefly? 

(My cheap water conditioner is running low, so I'm seeing if there's a better option to buy.)

[GameCzar]

I can only answer a couple of these questions.   The substances will still show up on your test kits, and I believe the ammonia is detoxified for 48 hours?  Then you will need to re-dose. 

Edited to add, we use Seachem Prime

Edited July 13, 2021 by GameCzar

[DaveO]

Fritz complete claims to detoxify nitrite and nitrate. I can't verify that with a test so I disregard the claim. I can, however, verify the claim that it removes ammonia and chlorine. This works well for me.

[TheCzarista]

it detoxifies them, it doesn't remove them.

That means it will still show up on your test kits and strips, but it isn't toxic to fish, because the toxic part is neutralized.  It is still useful for the bacteria to create the cycle. 

 

[DaveO]

On 7/13/2021 at 6:26 PM, TheCzarista said:

it detoxifies them, it doesn't remove them.

That means it will still show up on your test kits and strips, but it isn't toxic to fish, because the toxic part is neutralized.  It is still useful for the bacteria to create the cycle. 

 

My point exactly.

By the way, I love your signature. 

[CT_]

On 7/13/2021 at 4:05 PM, CalmedByFish said:

When a water conditioner says it "detoxifies ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate," does that mean

A) Bacteria can no longer use the ammonia and nitrite to maintain the cycle?

B) The plants can't use the nitrate?

C) Those substances won't show up on my test kits?

D) The ammonia will only be "detoxified" briefly? 

(My cheap water conditioner is running low, so I'm seeing if there's a better option to buy.)

Some of these points have been debated here.  If you're brave you can search for them.  

Depending on who you ask the answer will be "yes!" "no!" or "maybe" for A-C.  The manufacturers "detoxification" claims if you read their websites usually say it works for a day or two, so that maybe answers D.

 

Out side of the companies, no one knows exactly what's in those products so all we can do is speculate :/.  Maybe someone could do a controlled experiment if they had the time and resources.  

[Fishy_Jordan]

I have been using a pond conditioner for my tank for a few years now with no issues. It’s pretty cheap and you get ALOT. It has the same qualities of the aquarium conditioner. 

[CalmedByFish]

On 7/13/2021 at 6:26 PM, TheCzarista said:

  It is still useful for the bacteria to create the cycle. 

That must mean it also can still be utilized by plants?

[HH Morant]

I know some of the water conditioners claim to detoxify ammonia and nitrites temporarily - for 24 hours I thought. I truly do not believe that, but I confess I have tried it in an emergency. I would not rely on a water conditioner to save my fish from ammonia or nitrites.

I did not know a water conditioner claimed to temporarily detoxify nitrates. I am not even sure what that means. I don't think nitrates can be fatal in 24 hours, or at least not at any concentration I have seen in an aquarium.

[GameCzar]

I thought most generic water conditioners just removed chlorine.   But I have no idea, honestly.

I can confirm that Prime saved our bacon during our first nitrite spike with our Betta. 

[CalmedByFish]

On 7/13/2021 at 7:50 PM, HH Morant said:

I would not rely on a water conditioner to save my fish from ammonia or nitrites.

I agree. Whichever bottle of water conditioner I buy will be the one I carry with me when I drive my fish cross-country to move. So I'm just... doing what I can. 

[TheCzarista]

On 7/13/2021 at 7:50 PM, HH Morant said:

I know some of the water conditioners claim to detoxify ammonia and nitrites temporarily - for 24 hours I thought. I truly do not believe that, but I confess I have tried it in an emergency. I would not rely on a water conditioner to save my fish from ammonia or nitrites.

I did not know a water conditioner claimed to temporarily detoxify nitrates. I am not even sure what that means. I don't think nitrates can be fatal in 24 hours, or at least not at any concentration I have seen in an aquarium.

When your tank crashes, for whatever reason, (which can happen for a number of reasons), Prime can save the life of your fish if it does what it says.

We have seen it help our betta when we messed up and removed too much decor and plants at once and took out too much bacteria.

I would not recommend it for cycling your tank, unless it is an emergency situation, but it can be a very helpful band-aid to keep fish alive until your tank recovers

[Isaac M]

@CalmedByFish these are some very good questions. The difficulty in this is that the chemistry does not seem to be well understood. I personally do not know the chemistry behind these claims either but here are some screenshots from Seachems website under the FAQ section of Seachem Prime. 

[GardenStateGoldfish]

@CalmedByFish

A) Bacteria can no longer use the ammonia and nitrite to maintain the cycle?

The bacteria can still use it, these conditions convert Ammonia to Ammonium which is a non-toxic form of ammonia. 

B) The plants can't use the nitrate?

Same as above, plants absolutely can still use it it. 

C) Those substances won't show up on my test kits?

Depends on the test, a huge offender in this category is the API liquid test kit because its ammonia test actually tests for ammonia+ammonium. not purely ammonia, so if your API test kits says 1 ppm ammonia after using the conditioner it may be almost all ammonium which is non toxic.

D) The ammonia will only be "detoxified" briefly? 

I heard prime says its 48 hours, not sure of other conditioners, but ammonia specifically is controlled by the PH and temperature. A real chemist can explain this better than me, but for example (these are not actual numbers, and they have calculators online though) If you have a ph of 7 1 ppm ammonia on the API kit may be .50 ammonia, .50 ammonium. (Lower PH is lower Ammonia, higher PH higher ammonia ratio) 

If you use conditioner, it may swing them to 0% ammonia, 100% ammonium, but over the 48 hours when the bond breaks, it may move back to that 50% ratio at the 7 ph, in other words. I think the reason its temporary is because the bonds break down and then nature self-regulates like nature does. 

[HH Morant]

How can Seachem say they do not understand how their product does what they claim it does? They appear to say that nobody understands it (it is "not well understood"). They say it was "unexpected chemically" and Seachem did not know about it until its customers gave it anecdotal evidence that Prime detoxifies nitrites and nitrates. Anecdotal evidence can be cited for practically any claim. If I use Prime to detoxify ammonia and then my fish don't die, that is not really proof that Prime detoxified ammonia.

In essence Seachem says there is no scientific explanation for how their product could possibly do what they claim. I believe that part.

Of course, Prime probably does no harm when used in the hope that it will detoxify ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. As I mentioned, I tried it in the past in an emergency. I spent money and Seachem made money.

For a lengthy explanation from a chemist, search for "aquariumscience.org Prime." The writer argues that Prime does not detoxify ammonia, nitrites or nitrates, and that Seachem is knowingly making a false claim. He describes tests which can be done to demonstrate this. To me (a non-chemist), his arguments seem sound, although I have not replicated the tests.

If I were Seachem and I believed my own claims. I would sue this guy for defamation.

 

 

[Pizzafan]

This sounds like marketing garbage to me 😄 I am a chemist by profession, and there needs to be an understood mechanism for this detoxification or “binding” to ammonia that they do not provide.

[sudofish]

I would email the company and just ask. Of course they aren't going to put the exact scientific process on the bottle as the label is meant to be read by anybody not just a chemist. It works. I don't know nor care how it works and I don't need to. Maybe they've been selling snake oil for decades that does nothing and have never been figured out. I kind of doubt that though.

[HH Morant]

I think Prime is a perfectly good product for dealing with chlorine and chloramines.