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The purpose of this thread is to document my trials and tribulations while trying to build a "simple" aquarium stand. And let me just say, I have mad respect for the King of DIY; he does a ton of giant projects all by himself! For us beginners though, there some things that he leaves out. This will hopefully help people see what they are getting into and to avoid the mistakes I made.

I have minimal tools (dremel, drill) and live in an apartment. I'll show you how I tackled this and how long it takes, along with the *real* costs. You know what I mean, you did something wrong so you have to buy something to fix it, etc.

Here's what we're trying to build, for 20gal aquariums: 

I began last weekend. Per Joey, it only took him 45 min to slap this thing together. I consider myself fairly handy, so I should be able to do that, right? LOL NO. 

Since I didn't have a saw, I was planning to rent a miter saw from Home Depot. My husband was dubious about this, so we got a miter box and saw to try to cut the 2x4s. This did not work. My husband is a pretty fit guy, but the miter box just wasn't a good idea. There were too many cuts and we couldn't even get through one. This was, in part, due to the fact that we didn't have a sturdy table (just those cheap Ikea ones that wobble quite a bit.) So I would say avoid this route unless you have experience using it.

I decided to have Home Depot cut it for me. The first two cuts are free, and 50 cents each after that. I was not counting on the associate being high as a kite though. I explained what I needed and he looked at me with that dreamy "I don't care" look, so I just had him cut some plywood (to make the shelves useful of I ever stop using it for aquariums.) The 8ft boards barely fit in the SUV, but fit it did.

Oh, and did I mention, you have to go through and pick out the best boards? Yes. You must go to the stack of 2x4s and look at each board. Some of them are not even rectangular. Some of them are very crooked. Some are missing chunks. You don't want any of those. Your boards won't be perfect, but they should be fairly straight with no major defects. For my project, I took home six 8ft 2x4 boards.

Note that 2x4s are NOT 2" by 4". They are actually 1.5" by 3.5". Make sure your measurements/calculations reflect this.

I rented the miter saw and reviewed the little safety video detailed in the instructions. It was actually really easy to use. I was careful to use eye and ear protection and gloves, although the gloves were not really necessary (they made it more cumbersome when marking off measurements.) To best use the miter saw, you are really going to want to use a clamp, and I dished out like 20 cents for a carpenter's pencil. It helps make marks more accurate because it can mark closer to the edge. (Not strictly necessary but nice.)

As I said before, I did not have a sturdy table, so I opted to saw on the floor of my patio. THIS IS NOT ADVISED IN THE SAFETY MANUAL. Do so at your own risk. 

When you start drilling things together, MAKE SURE YOU DOUBLE CHECK WHICH ONES YOU PUT TOGETHER! I made this mistake, and that's why I am here doing this project a week later. I felt like a special smart person and decided "I'll even wood glue these together!" That was a bad idea.

Additional updates pending. I am still working on this today so I will update after. Sneak peek: troubles include stripped screws, incorrect bits, trying to remove wood glue, and a broken drill bit.

 

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Onward I continued with this project. As detailed in this thread, I had issues taking apart some pieces.

I had pieced the wrong parts together, accidentally using the braces instead of the shorter ones creating depth of the tank. The first issue was removing some of the stripped screws. The screws I bought were indeed 2.5" #8 wood screws, but I didn't realize when I got then that they had a star type head. Luckily I had an array of bits to choose from, so I picked the closest one and got to work. This resulted in multiple stripped screws. In addition,, I hadn't realized that you needed to drill pilot holes. This made drilling the screws in really difficult before I figured it out,, causing multiple stripped screws. It wouldn't have mattered had I connected the right pieces, but they were difficult to remove. 

I first tried a manual screwdriver. No good. A bigger bit? Didn't work, and stripped it more. Putting a rubber band over the screw head for better grip? Completely worthless. The stupid rubber band just broke in half. I broke down and went to the hardware store again and purchased a screw extractor. Being cheap- er, cost conscious- I only bought one size (only a few dollars.) This was also a mistake. As mentioned, some of the screws were stripped to a larger size. Since I only had one size, it didn't work. It also just... didn't work in general. I watched multiple videos on it but never got it to work as easily as those videos. There was no grip at all, and it actually bored out even FURTHER into the screw. At this point I had really messed up this screw, and I was honestly worried the head would snap off. My last option was to use a dremel with cutting wheel attachment to cut a flat head into the top. This worked, and its a good thing it did because I did NOT have much play left.

Proud to have removed these screws (which I had loudly complained multiple times were "never coming out"), I moved on to taking the pieces apart. The wood glue couldn't be stronger than the screws, right?

Wrong. This was about 1-2 days after initially putting the pieces together. This wood glue was STRONG. I mean, these joints looked really good. They were really solid. But I really didn't want to figure out how to cut replacement wood, or rent a reciprocating saw, etc. There had to be a way to get it apart. (Spoiler: I didn't get it apart.)

First I tried brute strength. This didn't work well since I am not much of a brute. I tried the saw from the miter box I had previously purchased, but I couldn't fit the blade in the narrow seem between the boards. I tried dissolving it with rubbing alcohol, and it got a tiny bit slippery but it could not get in between the boards. I tried the back of a hammer, no dice. And I wasn't going out to purchase a chisel, rubber mallet, or other one-time use items. I did more research online and found that the recommended method for removal of this glue was a heat gun. I had several projects in the past that would have been easier with a heat gun, so I went for it and purchased one. It too failed, although I hung onto the heat gun as a sort of consolation prize. I saw no difference in the strength of the bond.

My last ditch effort involved using a small hobby saw. Surprisingly, this was the most successful method, but it was absurdly labor intensive and I needed to break at least 12 joints this way. 

At this point it was time to face facts- I messed up and needed to start over. I had intended to build two stands initially, but wanted to do one first as a test. Since I was going to rent the miter saw again, I also bought enough boards for a second stand and just cut all of them at the same time.

I should mention that I used Joey's advice from a different video and used one board as a template for other cuts, rather than measuring with a measuring tape each time. This worked pretty well.

I cut all the pieces and a few extra to boot. I had no problem once again doing this within my 4hr rental time frame. Keep an eye on availability of the tool you're looking for on the Home Depot website- it would really be a pain to show up and realize someone else had already rented it out.

Now knowing that I needed to drill pilot holes, and having purchased a bit specifically designed to work with the screws I had purchased, I went to work. It went fairly smoothly but my back ended up killing me because, as I previously mentioned, I was doing all of this on the patio floor/ground, not a table. It occurred to me that the patio could possibly not be level, but I truly had no idea what to do if that was the case, so I just went with it. I decided not to use wood glue on the frames like I had initially. Luckily everything went together easily. A corner clamp would have been useful, but it wasn't strictly necessary. I used one foot to apply pressure as I screwed in screws from the opposite side. 

The result was 3 very stable, pretty level frames for the aquariums to sit on. 

I moved on to the legs. As I laid everything out, I realized I had miscalculated the height I needed for the aquariums to have enough space. I had accidentally forgotten to include the height of the frames themselves. Ultimately this was ok for me; I had only intended to put 2 aquariums on each rack anyway in order to use the bottom shelf for supplies. And secondly, I was NOT buying more wood and cutting more pieces!

I used wood glue this time and used a squaring tool (builder's square?) to make sure things stayed, well, square. In my mind, if they were square, they would also be level. Thankfully this turned out to be correct. I used wood glue again for adding these legs. They were so strong on the other pieces that they would certainly add strength to the leg/frame connection. This is where some more of my cutting errors came to light, although it may have been due to the imperfections in the wood. There were some slight gaps, but I was very comfortable that the screws and glue would provide enough strength for the stand. The clamp proved useful on this step because of minor bows and curves in the wood; I was able to keep things fairly straight and even, and it helped keep the pieces together when screwing the screws in.

I have attached a picture of what I ended up with today. I need to add 4 braces, one underneath each side of both shelves. I plan to use wood glue on these as well.

I initially purchased two boxes of screws, but I am confident that one box would have been enough for a single stand. It might be a close call on the second one, and I had purchased my supplies intending to get everything I could possibly need so I didn't have to go back to the hardware store mid-project. (Oh, the optimism.) I spent about 1-2 hours actually cutting wood today (probably closer to one) and about 2 hours doing all the construction with screws, pilot holes, etc. I'm certainly not making pace with the 45 minutes Joey quotes in his video! But he is an experienced builder/DIYer at this point, so I should not have expected that kind of speed for myself.

I plan to continue either later tonight or tomorrow. Ideally I would finish today, sand, and apply stain so that it can dry overnight. But even as I say it, I think that's overly optimistic and will take a good bit of time. I will update after that, and future posts will eventually include specifics of what I purchased as well as cost (although... I know I won't like the number that comes up.) Keep in mind that lumber is MUCH MUCH more expensive than it was when Joey made his tutorial video. Even if you get the cheapest lumber, it will be much more costly than the $25 quoted by Joey at that time. And it has been...

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This has long been my thought on DIY, for the average person it doesn't make sense unless you're going to do something a lot. If you needed 20 stands, definitely DIY them. For 1-2 builds like this, the tools, and learning curve is a little rough.

Also cause I just don't want to see an accident, there will be bracing going between each shelf right, so the load won't be on the screws?

Keep it up, you'll be a pro and next time you go to build something like this it'll only take 90 minutes 😄

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12 hours ago, Cory said:

This has long been my thought on DIY, for the average person it doesn't make sense unless you're going to do something a lot. If you needed 20 stands, definitely DIY them. For 1-2 builds like this, the tools, and learning curve is a little rough.

Also cause I just don't want to see an accident, there will be bracing going between each shelf right, so the load won't be on the screws?

Keep it up, you'll be a pro and next time you go to build something like this it'll only take 90 minutes 😄

Yes, it certainly isn't a cost effective method at this point. If we are just looking at money, I would have been better off commissioning this to someone who already had all the tools and know how. However, part of this is for me to gain experience with the process. And for that I can say it has been obnoxiously effective! 😅

I am adding additional bracing under each shelf, but it is still supported by wood screws. Joey addresses this in the video by going over the sheer strength of each screw and how many screws each tank is being held by. His stand was for 30gal tanks and mine is for 20gal, but I used the same number of screws. It should be overkill... theoretically. I can understand how this design would make some people uneasy but I'm comfortable with it. If I were to do this again, I would probably choose a slightly different design which places a 2x4 bracing between the shelves to take the weight of the aquariums. Just another thing to learn!

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 I personally like this approach to building a tank rack. Joey’s version seems to have all of the weight resting on the screws and that just does not sit right with me. I used this video to build a rack for my 55 and some 20 longs, since they share the same width, As well as a rack for two 40 gallons with four 10 gallons on top.  Should be comparable in cost to the the video Joey made as well but we all know how crazy expensive lumber is right now 😂 

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Posted (edited)

I continued this morning and placed the last few braces. I expect sanding and staining to be less of a challenge since I do have a tiny bit of experience with that. I used the very last screw in that first box of 1 lb of screws. Guess what I found at the bottom? The very drill bit I had needed from the beginning. Honestly that's just poor design on their part; I wasn't expecting to have to scrounge through an entire box looking for the bit like some kid looking for the prize in a box of cereal.

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Dollar for dollar, the most valuable thing I picked up was the clamp. I had no idea how useful it would be! And at only a few dollars, you can't beat it. I managed fine with only one, but I'm sure having 2 or more would be even better.20210503_100011.jpg.191cefaad88d6105c3759542d83abaa9.jpg20210503_100006.jpg.ff2271f3c977efcb91ce7c40486e8ed0.jpg

Speaking of tools, one that you simply can't do this project without is a good drill. You'll be using it enough that renting really isn't a cost effective choice; you'll probably end up paying more in rental cost than just buying the drill yourself. I have used this drill on many different things, so even if you are a poor college student, this is a solid investment. If you borrow from a friend, make sure they know it's going to get a workout. I ended up breaking two drill bits, luckily I had other bits to use. For this screw, I used the 1/8 and 7/64 bits and both worked fine. (I was using the 7/64 first but I broke it.)

I do suspect that there is an easier way to do all this drilling. I think Joey has a different video detailing a type of screw that does not require pre-drilling holes for the screws. Even if this was twice as expensive, I would have invested in these had I known about them. It would have saved quite a bit of time... and two of my drill bits. Maybe I need stronger bits? If that's a thing? Or maybe I should just be more careful about angling the drill when the bit is in the wood. 🤷‍♀️20210503_100054.jpg.48040144edfc5c6e19cd69f5d01aba72.jpg

Note the embedded drill bit at the top. It lives there now.

 need to attach the plywood on the shelves but I want to stop by the store and buy a 20gal long to make sure the rim will fit properly on the frame. I would not be able to tell 100% if the plywood was already down. 

After that it is sanding and staining! Really hoping for a dollar per gallon sale soon. The timing would be perfect.

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19 minutes ago, Kat_Rigel said:

I continued this morning and placed the last few braces. I expect sanding and staining to be less of a challenge since I do have a tiny bit of experience with that. I used the very last screw in that first box of 1 lb of screws. Guess what I found at the bottom? The very drill bit I had needed from the beginning. Honestly that's just poor design on their part; I wasn't expecting to have to scrounge through an entire box looking for the bit like some kid looking for the prize in a box of cereal.

 

When I was reading your earlier posts and you mentioned having screws with star shaped heads and not having correct size driver bit at first and then buying correct one, I was going to comment and say that pretty much every box of exterior screws with a star head I have ever bought came with a driver bit. But I kept reading and see that you discovered that.

I also 100% agree that a drill is very important to making stands or racks like this one. The prices that the big box stores have the cordless ones for, especially if you watch for sales you can get an 18 volt drill with batteries, charger and bag to hold it all for less than $100, sometimes right around $80. And they will last a long time, I have a Ryobi 18V that is at least 20 years old and I have built several decks, aquarium stands and racks with.

The stand is coming together nicely, albeit a few hiccups along the way, but as long as you are having fun as well as learning along the way, that's what counts. I'm looking forward to seeing what it looks like when you're all done with it. 

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Looks great! And yay for your first woodworking project! Every project after this will be easier, not just tank stands.

When I was doing research for my tank stand build, I heard (probably from Joey—I watched a lot of his videos too!) that the most common way a stand fails is actually from twisting. How does that design seem—can it twist at all? Does it have any give or is it solid?

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2 hours ago, Hobbit said:

Looks great! And yay for your first woodworking project! Every project after this will be easier, not just tank stands.

When I was doing research for my tank stand build, I heard (probably from Joey—I watched a lot of his videos too!) that the most common way a stand fails is actually from twisting. How does that design seem—can it twist at all? Does it have any give or is it solid?

It seems EXTREMELY solid. I think the way the frames are constructed helps prevent twisting. But there's no give in it at all, so I'm feeling pretty pleased.

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Ooookay so I'm on the final stretch (I think.)

This week I used some wood putty to fill in the screw holes, but... it wasn't very effective. I hadn't screwed the screws in far enough to have a hole, the head was just flush with the wood (or a tiny bit raised. Not perfect by any means.) However, I did end up being glad that I had the wood putty to fix some other issues. If you're reading this, you probably know that the wood selection at the hardware store is not exactly premium grade. Even though I had gone through the pile to pick what I felt were the best pieces (fairly straight, no crazy damage,) there were a few spots that were kind of weird and uneven. One spot in particular had a small chunk of wood that was coming off, so I used a combination of wood glue to put it back, the clamp to hold it in, and some wood putty to make the surrounding area smooth rather than pitted. I didn't take a pic of this because I was anxious to get it done. 

After that, I used a palm sander with 60 grit sandpaper to do a rough sanding. I wasn't looking for perfection on this, I just wanted to take off the rough, splintered edges left over from cutting and to provide a roughed up surface for the stain and polyurethane to come.

I used Minwax oil based stain, colonial maple. Initially I was going to pick up two 8oz cans, but for some reason I thought the label said it would cover 100sq ft so I only got one. Not sure how I got that number in my head, but it got in there. In reality, the label says it covers 37sq ft, which was sort of playing chicken- will I run out of stain before finishing everything? Well, it turns out, yes. Yes I would. I was very close to finishing the piece but I just couldn't squeeze out any more surface coverage. Off to the hardware store! This time I picked up the quart can with the expectation that I would be building a second stand in the future. I also grabbed a few cheap foam brushes and cheap paint brush. I can always find use for those foam brushes in hobbies and projects. 

Just before leaving for the store, my husband informed me I had stain on me. "Nuh uh, just my hands, right?" No. My hands. Side of my knee. Elbow. Arm. Haha I was a messy person. Thankfully I had purchased a cheap plastic drop cloth for the patio so it was protected. Me, not so much I guess. I picked up some paint thinner too in order to clean up the brushes. (I hesitated to pick it up initially because it's tough to dispose of. I was able to find a brand that claimed it was more green than the average brand, but with out more research I won't really know if that's true. Luckily it was also the cheapest.)

I came back and finished staining, and I think it looks pretty good! The color came out totally different than the picture on the can, but I still like it. I kind of prefer the light reddish tone.

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Can you see where I ran out of stain? No, neither can I. And neither can anyone else, so 🤪 Worst case scenario I can always decide to spray paint the entire piece instead.

I'll note that my dog was extremely interested in the smell of the stain. I had to actively keep him away (I accidentally left the patio door open a crack one time) and finally placed him in the crate because I didn't want him sniffing up the fumes or making a mess. Weird dog. The smell is strong so I'm sure he can smell it from inside the house.

So now I wait. Per the label, it takes 8hrs for the stain to dry. My plan is to apply the polyurethane this evening and hopefully I will have a finished piece tomorrow! I recently saw some absolutely adorable ranchus at my LFS and I am hoping I can pick one up once this stand is complete. (A little more research on care requirements is needed.)

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So close to finishing!

I applied three coats of Varathane polyurethane crystal clear gloss,  water based. It required two hours between each coat. I was anxious to bring it inside, but my husband wants us to hold off at least a few more hours. I am convinced that it is cured, but it won't hurt to wait. It might hurt to bring it in too soon, so he wins this time.

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The polyurethane looks white and milky when applied, but will dry clear and colorless.

The boards all looked fine except for a few bumps on the horizontal shelves. I'm not sure if this is due to applying it incorrectly or if I should have sanded it more before application. If anyone has experience with this, please let me know. I am not upset about it, but if it is an easy fix then I'll do that next time.

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See pics of these small white bumps above.

Due to these little bumps, I decided to sand just the shelves. I tried to do it by hand, but it was tedious and I saw that it was causing visible marks. I thought maybe the regular motion of the hand sander might mitigate this (and I thought hand sanding was tedious,) but the sander actually caused more noticeable scratches. I don't mind too much because it's going to be covered by the tanks or equipment anyway.

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After sanding, less bumps but more abrasions can be seen.

I took some pics of the areas where I used the wood putty too. It's not terribly noticeable, but if you look at it and are close up, you can easily see where it was. But standing back like a normal person looking at furniture, it's not bad at all.

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Tough to even see the spot here, but as you look at this closest corner on the left side, and scan from the top down, you can start to see the different texture of the wood vs the wood putty. This is also where I glued in a piece of wood to fill the ugly gap.

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Here's a much easier example to see. There are 4 screws here and filled one with putty. Looks pretty good but couldn't be done for all of the screws. I'm not too upset by it; it's only a slight imperfection.

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I am VERY pleased on how it's turned out, mainly because it's level and sturdy. The staining and polyurethane is just extra. It looks pretty similar to the picture from my last post, but it's very shiny. 😁 

Next post will include the piece with tanks, and I will also make a comprehensive list of everything I used as well as the cost.

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Looks like you have been building and staining stands for a while and not a first DIY stand!  The stain looks even in the photos and I can't wait to see it with the tanks installed.  I love the Tightbond II - you are never getting this stand apart again.  If you want to cover up the deck screw holes then you can get a countersink bit and countersink the them prior to installing the screw.  Countersinking the screws will also help keep the wood from splitting, which can happen even with self-tapping deck screws.

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27 minutes ago, Matt_ said:

If you want to cover up the deck screw holes then you can get a countersink bit and countersink the them prior to installing the screw.

Thank you for the tip! I will look into this for the second stand.

 

28 minutes ago, Matt_ said:

Looks like you have been building and staining stands for a while and not a first DIY stand!

Aw shucks, thank you!

I did, however, run into one problem as I started to set up the stand. It looks like the second shelf is not totally level, and when I place an aquarium on it, you can easily see that one side of the aquarium is not making contact with the shelf. Obviously this is not acceptable; torsion will cause the tank to crack eventually. It's fairly pronounced, so I'm not sure if I could use some sort of foam or a yoga may to stabilize it? Until I can get a recommended fix from someone who has experience, I don't plan to use the shelf for a tank. I do recall spending a lot of time with the carpenter's square when trying to position this shelf, but it looks like I was still a bit off.

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Top shelf

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Second shelf 😞

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Bottom shelf (will be used for supplies, no tank.)

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Empty aquarium on second shelf. Clearly not going to work as-is. I'm open to suggestions. Worst case scenario I can use it to store more supplies, but considering I already screwed up the dimensions and can't have a tank on the bottom, I'd like to try and save it if I can. For the next stand, I will probably adjust so that the bottom shelf will hold an aquarium and the middle will just hold supplies. That way it is not as important that the second shelf is level (which was difficult to do.)

The stand itself is very solid but was not quite level either. I fixed this with a small furniture foot sticker made of foam and it evened it out perfectly.

The top shelf, however, is nearly perfect. Level, and the tank is not wobbling at all. I guess if I'm picky, the level bubble does tend to one side a bit. I am a little bit worried because because I wonder if a longer level would show that it is uneven. I plan to fill it with a little water to see if it is showing up as wildly uneven before actually completely filling and stocking it.

I was also lucky enough to catch the 50% off aquariums sale at Petco last weekend and bought all of the tanks for these stands. 🙂

 

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That is really disappointing, the hard part is building the stand straight and level.  That is what I end up spending a bunch of time on when I am building a stand.  I highly recommend using composite shims to level everything out.  Start by leveling the stand at the final location.  You want the stand to be straight with minimal lean.  A 20 gal only needs to be supported on the corners so you can probably get away with using composite shims to fill the gap between the tank and the shelves if the shelves are not level.

It is difficult to build level shelves flat and level (these are two different things) using dimensional lumber.  What works best for me is to build the shelves upside down on top of the tank (assuming that the tank is a flat surface), then turn the shelf over and attach the plywood to retain the final shape.  Finally, turn it back over and check that the corners are making contact with the tank.  You can force the shelves level using the legs to leverage it into place.  I recommend using a full 4' level to check level as well because it is important to check the corner to corner level for these DIY stands and the 6" level can give you false readings (because the dimensional lumber is not flat but still may be level).  The 4' level gives you a nice flat surface to check for flatness as well.  I think that you are really going to want a tank on the middle shelf and supplies on the bottom shelf if you are planning to use a shelf for supplies.

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Posted (edited)

Looks great! I never built anything in my life until I watched a loT of YouTube and built a diy stand with my brothers help. Started getting yard sale tools and my brothers hand me down tools as he upgraded. That was 2019. Gave me confidence to try and learn some skills on YouTube. Built a deck last year. Built more stands. Laid hardwood in a few rooms. Replaced all the baseboards and crown molding. Built a rabbit hutch. Girlfriend has lined up numerous Pinterest projects for me and I find it enjoying to listen to the aquarium coop podcast and build things now. 
 

YouTube is awesome! Lol. And I watched all kinds of videos from coop, steenfott, And Bentley pascal when I got back into The hobby a few years ago and really wanted to get into plants. They helped me navigate that. I’m no aquascaper but I have managed to keep a lot of low maintenance plants alive. 

Edited by Nate s
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55 minutes ago, Matt_ said:

What works best for me is to build the shelves upside down on top of the tank (assuming that the tank is a flat surface), then turn the shelf over and attach the plywood to retain the final shape.  Finally, turn it back over and check that the corners are making contact with the tank.

Oooh that's a VERY good idea! I will definitely do that next time.

Wow, you worked your way up to a deck?! That's impressive! I really enjoy building and DIY stuff but I never really had an opportunity to learn but it as a kid or younger adult. Youtube is definitely the best for learning new skills. Taught myself how to crochet that way too!

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If you are looking to learn how to build things with wood using minimal tools I highly recommend watching the Woodworking Basics series by Steve Ramsey at Woodworking for Mere Mortals (WWMM) on YouTube.  This is where I learned some really neat DIY ticks like ripping plywood on a sheet of extruded polystyrene (XPS) board with a circular saw since I do not own a table saw.  The early content focuses on the basic projects with minimal tools.

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Nice build and great job for your first project. A couple things I might add is the broken bits are usually from not holding drill straight in and straight out. Also using a countersink bit can allow you to hide the screws relatively easy. Also a deck of cards are a great way to perfectly level a stand. Also when using the water based poly applying a couple coats and then sanding with 220 paper until hazy and smooth then reapplying another coat will lend a nice smooth coat. Also warping down with a rack cloth after sanding will avoid those little dimples you were getting in the finish. Here’s a stand I built very similar to yours. 

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