xXInkedPhoenixX

With bladders or similar it's usually pretty apparent right away who is alive and who isn't- they start moving when the water is

Rut ro. Try maybe doing a water change and see if you can find any evidence of life?

@Minanora yes that was a ride I really don't care to take again. Some very hard lessons learned and I still beat myself up about it. I'm hoping my future care makes up for it. Lol, ohhhhh LFS 😑 I'm sure your Otos come out. They generally do at night- I like to watch my Accidental Oto tank just a bit after the lights go off and just before they come on (and a little after). They are very active then. Just because they hide during the day doesn't mean they aren't happy. 🙂 I'm sure you do a fine job.

Hi @Chris J Welcome to the forum. Hate to tell you but it will be a while yet before you can SAFELY add fish. While the Quick Start stuff of any brand can help- it's not a true cycle. What you end up doing is adding fish and ultimately doing a "fish-in" cycle- meaning you risk losing the fish you add. This is my favorite video from Aquarium Co-Op that explains the process: The best way to INSTANTLY start a cycle? Find someone with a healthy tank and a dirty filter you can have.

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA (TIGER): The 2 and 3 Gallon QTs and the Cocama Hotel (that was abandonded) Well fishy friends. The Oto that I placed into the 2 gallon last night did not make it. The redness was no longer evident- though the fish's natural coloring was still dark and pretty, everywhere else was super pale and the tummy looked well, less than full. It was disappointing but not unexpected. So the 2 gallon was put out of commission again. Everyone in the 3 gallon that I could see looked decent- one attached to the side looked healthy and belly full. At @Colu and @Odd Duck recommendation I went on the hunt for Naladin- boy that's not a super easy one to find but there is a pond/aquatics store online that does. So a couple of packages of that, along with a couple other of the brand's meds that looked super useful were also put in a cart and purchased. I got AAP Nitrofuracin Green- which contains Nitrofurazone (the true nitros are "out of stock" of course) along with Sulfathiazole Sodium, & Methylene Blue which seems a useful med. I also got AAP Super Ick Plus because, why not! Bye bye 50 bucks, but hey, I got free shipping. 🙄 Thankfully it's shipping a state north of me so I'm hoping I'll get it mid-week if the company ships today or monday, then I'll start treatment. The Cocama Hotel is clearing up as well. It's possible I can put them back there this coming week or next.

Ok thanks @Colu. Yes they've been over 70 the whole time but I'm not even positive if it is the true whirling disease because of course other things can cause the symptom. I'll probably never know for sure but here we go, got my seatbelt on AGAIN with my Otos. 😔

Ok yeah I agree @Colu I've dosed meds. I moved them to a 2 gallon. I decided to treat with Furan 2 (which I already had a 2 gallon dose on hand) and Kanaplex. At this point I have no idea what it is. I have clove oil on hand but I'll have to see what things look like in the morning. I did a good sized water change on the 3 gallon with the other 9 everyone still seems ok in there. Should I dose anything with them for preventative or?

@Colu ok, home, the poor fish has manifested symptoms now, super red in the belly area but still alive. Now what?

@Colu why you gotta pick one of the only medications I don't have? 😃 I have seen some pond posts that are saying Nitrofurazone and Para Guard or Super Ich Plus works, I have Furan 2 still and API super ick also Paraguard. I also saw a post somewhere in my travels that Kanaplex combined with something else worked. I'll have to see what to do when I get home. (I think it was Kanaplex and General Cure)

I agree, gotta leave some for the inhabitants. The plants seem to be growing well! Looking good!

Where's the pics?! 🙂

😆 That's AMAZING! Couldn't be more form fitting.

Beautiful! - and a LOT less shakey cam than I expected after having seen some of @Fish Folk's handheld vids 😆

Yes, @CT_ Hikari Wafers definitely have protein, the animal protein being pretty high. I think they are definitely keen on animal protein of some kind in their diet as I've raised most of mine on Hikari wafers alone. Of course there's plenty of greens that have protein- spirulina for example. I just find it interesting that when given the choice the Super Green is always eaten first. I'm just curious to know if it's a side effect of them being herbivores. I'll probably never know for sure. I have seen some people say they blend up worms of several kinds. I think maybe in the end it's just the protein itself that triggers spawning but again that's just an armchair theory I have- like you mentioned chia- wonder how much of the chia protein was the trigger for the spawn vs the animal protein. I wish more people would document their breediing of Otos here, I've only seen people mention it and not update or post regularly about it.

@CT_ firstly, good to know about the air/catfish thing. I'll have to do a little research on that for the heck of it thanks! Secondly, wouldn't have taken it as a criticism as I agree, weirdly you'd think soilent would be the #1 based on some information out there- and I DO have it- but they are less enthusiastic about eating Soilent and nearly always finish the Super Green. Here is MY opinion. All the research I've done for Otos as a species in the world says they are primarily HERBIVORES. Super Green has no animal protein that I can see. Whereas Soilent DOES, and they are actually pretty high on the list and include other kinds of proteins. I've heard/seen a lot of people feeding their Otos high protein including things like bloodworms/blackworm but I've not actually seen anyone at least here documenting the same things I do. I've fed my Otos bloodworms (maybe less than 4 times and mostly recently to try) but I'm not really convinced they're keen on them- only some of them get eaten most of it I clean up. Do they eat them by accident (because mine are fed in bowls)? Here's my armchair theory, they're omnivores by (and this is my favorite word here) accident- they live in rivers so of course just by the way they eat they'll end up getting trace animal protein from the surfaces they attach to which is why they're not opposed to eating animal protein it's just not their first choice. I've had a similar discussion about this on this page before- and my observations in keeping them have backed this amateur theory.

I have 1 unknown species Hillstream in a 9 gallon tank and "Kirby" seems perfectly content. Flex9, last test: temp 76.1, 7.8ph, 0/0 ammonia/nitrite, 20 nitrate, 4/71.6 kh, 143.2 gh. People tried to tell me I needed heaters too, don't have those either.

Us ornery people live longest. 😉 Stay that way.

Glad you're still with us and you're not letting it or anything else stop you.

OK fishy friends, special attention to @Colu and @Odd Duckthe one Tiger Oto that was displaying issues is still this morning. Today while I was doing the water change (24hrs after a dose of Expel P) this one kept trying to get to the top of the tank and while doing so "whirling". I was able to easily lift them out and place them in a shallow bowl and they seemed to like that they were close to the surface. So after I serviced the tank for the day I put in a breeder box with an air stone and put it as high up as I could so that it could easily get to the surface (so I used a lot of suction cups/veggie clips). So what is it? Whirling disease is a parasite and I've done 2 treatments of Expel P (though it's supposed to effect the neurological center and near impossible to cure). Ammonia Poisoning? Don't think so- the 5 gallon never had any measurable Ammonia. There was possibly some Nitrite but it was not yet in the "caution" zone just not the EXACT color it should have been on the strip which is why I moved them all yesterday. Swim Bladder? Possible. The tank after today's water change has whatever left of the Expel P, Aquarium Salt and IAL tea water. Suggestions? Sadly not sure if the fish will still be there when I get home after a 10 hour shift but if they are I'm willing to try whatever. All the other Otos appear well, food was eaten.

I'm sorry I can't help with the argonite but I know others have used it here so maybe they'll pipe in it may work similarly but I don't know for sure. I can say I agree with you on chemical use and it's only temporary anyway. So I do use crushed coral in my tanks. How it does work simply put- is the more acidic the water is (lower pH) it basically eats at the coral, this releases chemicals/compounds from the coral that raises the pH and Kh. Once it gets to a higher pH it tends to leave the coral "alone" and if the water turns back to being acidic the process starts again but at a smaller level once it is in your tank. The initial adjustment does take time. My tanks are stable at 3-4 kh and generally 7.6 pH (I've never been able to maintain a 7.0 but all my inhabitants seem to be fine with it). I have mostly smaller tanks and honestly never bothered to measure out the coral. A handful in the substrate helped both my 20 gallon tanks. I use it in an HOB for a 10 gallon, keep it in a sake cup in my 4 gallon and have it in bags in a Flex9. It does work.

Nope. My bad

Whoops I stand corrected, you are right @Mmiller2001. I typed before thought was fully formed 😄 I corrected my former statement

Welcome to the forum @DimHelmet. I'm a huge fan of the common Pleco, it's nice to see you want better for them. We're here to help! 🙂

OTOCINCLUS COCAMA (TIGER): The 5 gallon QT/Cocama Hotel has been abandoned! Well fishy friends, it seems after I switched out the filter from my Parent tank to the 5 gallon where my 10 new O.Cocama were -it caused (at least I think this would have been the culprit)- a bacterial bloom. Knowing better than to, but trying to avoid a Nitrite spike I was changing water every day- this didn't solve any problems of course. On top of the fact that I could not do a roll call AT ALL due to the fog even after the 50% water change- I could only see those who were close to or hanging on the glass which was not many. So defeated there and seeing at least a couple of the Tigers not acting right (read: not swimming right nor attaching the glass in a successful way) I decided I needed to pull them out before matters went totally downhill there. This just a small section of the tank, you should be able to clearly see the coconut hut on the back wall. After pulling them all (you have no idea how relieved I was to have found all 10) I put in another filter this one has been out of commission for a while (read: dry and not pulled from another tank) and left a piece of wood with plants and another rock with Anubias there. Hopefully in a week or so- keeping my hands off of it- I'll be able to reconsider using it. I had been of course checking levels every day with strips (both tetra o and aco ammonia strips) and they'd been in the "safe" levels but I was starting to see evidence of Nitrite even after my water change today. I wasn't going to take any more chances with water parameters. Thankfully I'd recently purchased another 3 gallon QT tank after swearing off the 2 and smaller sizes. I pulled one of the pieces of wood from the 5 with plants on it, a rock with a plant and the filter (which I squeezed out several times) and added some Aquarium Salt. I was going to treat them one more time with Expel P and leaving them in the 5 would not have been ideal at this point since I literally cannot see them. So I dosed that as well. They all LOOK good, coloring is dark, gill area is a normal light pink- however some are not as fat as I would like - I'm concerned there- so besides the biofilm from the pieces I put in I left them a little Repashy Super Green, a piece of Hikari Algae Wafer and a piece of a small block of frozen bloodworms. I'm hoping the cleaner water and DAILY water changes will help. I got the original 6 through QT in a 2 gallon with daily water changes I KNOW I can get these 10 through it as well in a 3 gallon with some determination if the 5 won't be of assistance. Worried fish keeper now that I am, I'm hoping I've avoided a disaster. All 10 did make it out of the QT so here's hoping I don't have any loses. They've made it this far to me, I hope they can live out the rest of their LONG lives. Next week I'll be staying home on my days off and starting the move for the Harlequins from the Parent Tank to the Angry Man. I am hopeful that the numbers will actually encourage them ALL to be less shy and there are no fights I need to worry about. Black Neons and Harlequins are supposed to be COMMUNITY fish right???

Essentially DawnE if the first drop changes the color - meaning if your first drop is yellow and NOT blue then you have less than 1 degree of kh (no buffer). You could also read it as less than 17.9 ppm. If your first drop is blue and the next drop is yellow, then you have TWO degrees. Make sense?