Scared of co2

[Krakens_tanks]

I know this sounds ridiculous but am I the only one who is scared to attempt Co2. I know it's very easy for some people but knowing how easy it can be to kill fish i am extremely cautious. I have watched a crap ton of videos and read articles but I still feel like I'm missing something cuz I have no confidence in my ability to try it. Any advice for someone who is on the fence about it?

[DannyBWell]

I was kind of where you were 2 months ago now but I took the dive and got a 10lb tank and co2 art kit and have been doing absolutely amazing as long as you've done your research and have a timer you should be fine. Good luck 

[Brandy]

I am not sure I am so much afraid as lazy...

[PlaneFishGuy]

I started with a tank kit that came with a Fluval 45g CO2 kit and after doing some research I opted out mainly due to the added need to turn the CO2 on and off with light cycles, etc. The cost of the Fluval replacements was also not appealing.  I know all that can be automated and you can cut cost with paintball canisters, etc.. With my job I often have to leave 3-4 days (possibly longer) and I need the tank to self-sustain unattended, or at least be cared for by someone who is far less obsessed than me. 

I have no real-world experience with CO2 but lots of experience and success with other non fish tank things and I have found that the people smart enough to be intimidated are usually the ones that do the research and hard work to make things a success. 

I say if you can afford the gear, have the time, and want to do it then you should give it a run. If its an epic fail you'll be out some money, or you can give it another attempt. No matter what I bet you learn a ton. 

[Krakens_tanks]

19 minutes ago, PlaneFishGuy said:

I started with a tank kit that came with a Fluval 45g CO2 kit and after doing some research I opted out mainly due to the added need to turn the CO2 on and off with light cycles, etc. The cost of the Fluval replacements was also not appealing.  I know all that can be automated and you can cut cost with paintball canisters, etc.. With my job I often have to leave 3-4 days (possibly longer) and I need the tank to self-sustain unattended, or at least be cared for by someone who is far less obsessed than me. 

I have no real-world experience with CO2 but lots of experience and success with other non fish tank things and I have found that the people smart enough to be intimidated are usually the ones that do the research and hard work to make things a success. 

I say if you can afford the gear, have the time, and want to do it then you should give it a run. If its an epic fail you'll be out some money, or you can give it another attempt. No matter what I bet you learn a ton. 

See I wonder if that's my problem is that I over research and I happen to hyper focus on what could go wrong or so says the wife lol but I mean I have the time I'm currently on short term disability so spend 18 hrs a day in front of my tank. 

[Mmiller2001]

You will never learn if you don't try. Just start on your days off. Test pH every hour if your nervous. You don't have to push the absolute boundaries, but once you get comfortable, you will!

[Krakens_tanks]

What's a solid starting point for equipment that won't completely break the bank?

[xXInkedPhoenixX]

@Krakens_tanks I'm with you in one way. I went low tech because there are so few things that could go wrong. For example: I have no heater that will either break and my fish would freeze and die, or overheat and kill my fish, or electricute them all. Is this rare? ABSOLUTELY. Could it happen? YES. That's just an example of all the things I overthink, the less moving parts something has, the less there is to break. I have a 54 year old car in my garage that runs better than most people's early 2000's vehicles. Why? No tech. I prefer it. Why it takes all kinds. 

[PlaneFishGuy]

When it comes to the "what could go wrong?" I usually ask myself how likely is it to go wrong and if it did, how bad would it really be? Usually when you frame it like that it feels pretty manageable....

[Krakens_tanks]

1 minute ago, PlaneFishGuy said:

When it comes to the "what could go wrong?" I usually ask myself how likely is it to go wrong and if it did, how bad would it really be? Usually when you frame it like that it feels pretty manageable....

See it's more of what could I do wrong lol

[PlaneFishGuy]

Probably lots of good logical arguments to stay away from CO2 and that was the decision I made, but I guess I am fundamentally "Anti-Fear" as a justification to not take the field (sorry for sports reference on a fish forum). 

If the result of failing means your family misses some meals then by all means waive-off....but if the "failure" is looking amateur on the CARE forum then who cares - plus you can always tell everyone online it going great 🙂 

[Krakens_tanks]

Oh idc what others think it's more of I am to emotionally invested in my fish lol

[Mmiller2001]

1 hour ago, Krakens_tanks said:

What's a solid starting point for equipment that won't completely break the bank?

https://www.co2art.us/

Edited April 8, 2021 by Mmiller2001

[gardenman]

9 hours ago, Krakens_tanks said:

What's a solid starting point for equipment that won't completely break the bank?

The "starting point" isn't the problem. You can start for next to nothing with homemade CO2. Some water, yeast, baking soda, and sugar and you've got CO2. A couple of empty 2 liter soda bottles and some airline tubing and you're injecting CO2 into your tank. Even if you have none of that to start with $10 will buy all you need. 

Then you'll get tired of having to change out the yeast solution each week and decide that maybe buying a CO2 system is better. "I can get one for less than a dollar a day!" You'll then be happy for a bit, but hear about CO2 dumping and decide to invest in an even better regulator that promises not to dump CO2. Sure, it cost more than the whole system you'd bought, but it'll be worth it for the peace of mind. Then your plants will find they're not getting enough light to use all of the CO2 you're now injecting, so it's time to upgrade the lighting to take advantage of the CO2. Hmm...the "right" lights for the CO2 you're injecting cost $500 each? It'll be worth it though. Oops! It seems your plants are sucking up the nutrients faster than you're replacing them. You've got to increase your fertilization rate. Maybe a dosing pump would be helpful? Yes! I'll get a four channel one that I can program to give just the right nutrients all the time! It's just $400! Now with the "right" lighting and the "right" CO2 system, and the "right" nutrients, your plants are taking over the world and need constant trimming and maintenance to keep the tank from becoming an overgrown jungle. You go away for a few days and find you can't see the fish through the plants when you get back, so you go in and weed whack your way through the jungle to get things back in check. Then the power supply on the expensive lights fail and you find out you can't buy just the power supply, so there goes another $500. Oh, and that regulator you bought that prevents CO2 dumping? There's a new, even better version out now for just $800. 

Before long your planted tank cost as much as your car and takes nonstop maintenance to keep it looking good. But on the rare occasion it's not overgrown, or has freshly cut stems looking ugly, and everything's just right, it looks great! Is it worth it? If your goal is to impress aquarium plant snobs with your ability to grow really tough to grow plants, then maybe. If your goal is to simply have a pretty aquarium that's not insanely hard to maintain and keeps the fish happy, probably not. Most people looking at your aquarium might think java fern and anubias are nearly impossible to grow. (They're not.) They'll be impressed that you have such a beautiful tank even if it's filled with the easiest to grow plants in the known universe. A wall of vallisneria swaying in the current in the back of the tank, some anubias and java fern in the midground, maybe some dwarf chain sword as a foreground plant and you've got a gorgeous aquarium that takes little maintenance. (Thinning out the val from time to time is about it.) No CO2 required, no special lighting, and you've got a beautiful tank with healthy fish.

The starting cost is not the problem. It's like any other addiction. The price to get in is low. The long-term cost is what kills you. "There's a new cultivar of the sword plant that's just so beautiful! And it's just $750 each! Wow! I've got to get one! Maybe two!" Uh, no. For most people, the non-plant snobs of us, there's no "need" for CO2. You can make a beautiful, healthy tank without it. If you want to impress the aquatic plant snobs of the world, go for it. Just be forewarned that there's no upper limit on how much it could cost you. 

[Jungle Fan]

@Krakens_tanks When I first started using pressurized CO2 for my tanks everyone was still using regulators that were low quality and unreliable, and since they were single stage prone to suffer the end of cylinder dump that could kill your fish, then came dual stage regulators, and I made the mistake of trying to go with cheap, and fell for the moniker 'dual gauge' which includes most CO2 regulators, single, or dual stage. With a reliable system that will cost you between $200 and $300 and is a true dual stage regulator with a solenoid to put it on a timer at about $10 and a $0.50 to $0.75 ssilicone seal and you should not have any problems. A 5 lb. cylinder will cost you around $70 to $80.  A glass drop checker around $20, 10Ft of CO2 line around $10, a CO2 diffuser $17.99 here on Aquarium Co-Op, and a reliable CO2 check valve around $27. So total for a set up that will be next to worry free: yes, somewhere around $500.

After initial set up the cost to run the system: a little less than $15 for a cylinder refill and $0.75 for a a new silicone seal every 7 - 8 months, not counting the few pennies on my electricity bills for the solenoid and timer.  Every 5 years the cylinder needs to be retested so depending on where you live the hydrostatic test will run you between $40 to $50.

I don't feel the need to impress any snobs with super rare exotic plants, actually almost all of my plants are typical low light plants which I could grow without my admittedly 'fancy' Kessil lights, or CO2 but my plants grow quicker, and more healthy with CO2. As a matter of fact I've not had to buy more plants since I first set this tank up nine months ago, and I've only seen small, healthy, and manageable amounts of algae. I have however given away bunches of healthy stem plant cuttings and several of my new Cryptocoryne and Java fern plantlets, as well as a few baby sword plants.

I've kept both fish, and plants for now going on 53 years, and I've not always in my life been blessed to be able to afford a system like I currently run. I've had some extremely challenging, and financially hard times when $500 was an astronomical sum, especially so because our money was worth a lot more back then. I'm a naturalized immigrant, so I wasn't born into money. 

Can you have a beautiful tank without CO2, absolutely but you will have to work for it. Not necessarily just the physical work, but the progress of educating yourself and experimenting and maintaining. @Streetwise has some beautiful tanks set up according to the Walstad method that are awesome but it takes dedication and time, and as in any part of our hobby attention to detail.

Over the years I've run anything from a nano tank to a 200 gallon tank with sump, I did gravel tanks with some plants, heavy planted dirted tanks, blackwater biotope tanks, Japanese style Nature Aquariums, Dutch style tanks, and I always tried to go the most economical route. My current tank is my first real departure from the economy style I used to follow. I'm getting to the age where I don't know how many more tanks I'll be setting up and you might call this one of my bucket list projects so my wife and I splurged for our enjoyment.

You can also set up a DIY CO2 system to just check out the benefits of CO2, but I would advise against yeast, it is not only messier, but fluctuates more in level of CO2, and is more prone to dump into your tank at the life end of the yeast, citric acid systems are a lot more reliable and tend to last longer. With pressurized CO2 I don't advocate going the cheaper route because I've been there, had my fish killed twice, something I regret to this day. When I got my first real dual stage CO2 regulator with solenoid and all the other equipment I had gotten it piece by piece over a year and half, buying what I could afford at a time. Money was tight because of medical bills, and needs of the family. However I've spent multiple times  on fish, tanks, stands, filters, filter media, fish food, medication, books, substrate, and lights what I spent on CO2 and equipment.

I don't recommend what didn't work for me, nor do I recommend just the latest and greatest more expensive, I'm also no longer at the age where I need to impress anyone, I just do what I like and enjoy, and I enjoy sharing it with others who enjoy the same things.

Here are some recent links you might find useful in weighing the pros and cons of pressurized CO2:

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/collections/plant-supplies/products/aquario-neo-co2-diffuser

https://greenleafaquariums.com/categories/co2-equipment/gla-co2-regulators.html

https://www.co2art.us/collections/co2-regulators

 

[Brandy]

3 hours ago, gardenman said:

...Then you'll get tired of having to change out the yeast solution each week and decide that maybe buying a CO2 system is better. "I can get one for less than a dollar a day!" You'll then be happy for a bit, but hear about CO2 dumping and decide to invest in an even better regulator that promises not to dump CO2. Sure, it cost more than the whole system you'd bought, but it'll be worth it for the peace of mind...

If you give a mouse a cookie...

[Krakens_tanks]

Ok well that's alot of information to process. The price isn't really what scares me off it's how easily things can go wrong. So far my tank is doing well with out co2 so I think I will leave that one alone. What I might do is set up a plants only tank (I have a spare 40 that's not being used) and use that as an experiment tank to play with co2 until I feel comfortable with adding it to a stocked tank down the road

[Kirsten]

Yeah I'm in the same boat. For me, the risks (gassing your fish, tanks exploding, pH problems, algae problems, the arms race of co2 & lights & fert described above) aren't worth the reward (dwarf baby tears).

My java ferns, java moss, swords, crypts, apongetons, anacharis, and stem plants all seem to be doing fine getting co2 the old fashioned way: airstones and a billion endler babies. Would be amazing to find a way to grow carpeting plants in a low-tech tank, but yeah it's not worth the risks for me.

It would be amazing if someone could design a nice-looking but still inexpensive version of Ocean Aquarium's old-school method of going around and pumping co2 into overturned water bottles in tanks. That's about my limit, though.

[Jungle Fan]

With a quality dual stage CO2 regulator, with bubble counter on a solenoid and timer from a company that offers a valid lifetime guarantee, or with a simple citric acid DIY system you will find pressurized CO2 easy and rewarding . With a bad, or single stage CO2 regulator, or even with DIY yeast it can be a heartbreaking  experience, or at the very least an exercise in frustration. If you have doubts that you will benefit from it, or need to gain confidence with it I think you are making the right decision to start on a plant only tank.

[Krakens_tanks]

9 minutes ago, Kirsten said:

Yeah I'm in the same boat. For me, the risks (gassing your fish, tanks exploding, pH problems, algae problems, the arms race of co2 & lights & fert described above) aren't worth the reward (dwarf baby tears).

My java ferns, java moss, swords, crypts, apongetons, anacharis, and stem plants all seem to be doing fine getting co2 the old fashioned way: airstones and a billion endler babies. Would be amazing to find a way to grow carpeting plants in a low-tech tank, but yeah it's not worth the risks for me.

It would be amazing if someone could design a nice-looking but still inexpensive version of Ocean Aquarium's old-school method of going around and pumping co2 into overturned water bottles in tanks. That's about my limit, though.

I'm pretty sure dwarf saggitaria and micro sword are low tech carpeting plants 

[Jungle Fan]

The cylinder exploding is something I have never known anyone to have experienced in all my time of keeping fish, you would either have to leave a cylinder in the bright sun so that it warms and the CO2 expands until bursting, or store it sideways instead of standing up to make that happen, but then again I can understand because you won't catch me with a propane grill, I prefer charcoal over the thrill of messing with flammable gas.

[BigRedd]

Well, I just had my first co2 related incident.

I've been running co2 for a bit, started to develop a little bit of black beard algae, I figured that the co2 wasn't high enough. I turned it up wayyy too high and one of my twig catfish died... they don't do well in low oxygen environments... the other one is still alive, but still sucks.

My recommendation is to start low, don't rely on drop checkers. I find PH to be a better indicator of co2 concentration.

1 ph drop point roughly equates to the co2 levels you want to be at ~20-30  ppm. so measure the ph before it comes on with a digital meter (get it from amazon). then after the co2 has been on for a few hours, measure it again. Then measure it again right before it turns off. See what the difference in ph is and if it's around 1 point drop(while the co2 is running), good, you got it right.

If you're going to do co2, do it right. I got a regulator from green-leaf aquariums, and it works great. It came with a solenoid. I have it on a timer and now I don't even think about it.

I probably wouldn't do CO2 unless you are a plant fanatic and want to have plants that require heavy co2 (i.e. dwarf hair grass)

Edited April 8, 2021 by BigRedd

[Jungle Fan]

The drop checker, and pH test are both back ups until you get your needle valve adjusted right via bubble counter. I actually use both, one as a visible, the other on a less frequent weekly basis because I've got my system dialed in now. pH controllers I've found very much off, and unreliable depending on which brand they were, calibrating the probes every month with different fluids that expire as well was just a hassle.

[BigRedd]

7 minutes ago, Jungle Fan said:

The drop checker, and pH test are both back ups until you get your needle valve adjusted right via bubble counter. I actually use both, one as a visible, the other on a less frequent weekly basis because I've got my system dialed in now. pH controllers I've found very much off, and unreliable depending on which brand they were, calibrating the probes every month with different fluids that expire as well was just a hassle.

Do you find BPS to be a good source of measurement? I feel like once you get past a 30-50 gallon tank, it becomes almost impossible to count the BPS without recording a video in slow-mo. Also my bubble counter water ends up evaporating or ends up going up the tube into the tank after a few days...after a few times tinkering with it, I just leave it empty and haven't refilled my bubble counter, lol

Edited April 8, 2021 by BigRedd

[Jungle Fan]

Almost, I used to go by bps, after years of dealing with this I first check every day with pH tests for a week, then I pay attention into how far I adjust my needle valve to get there, since I set up my tank it was very close to spot on just by adjusting the needle valve to the same extent at refill time, however I still double checked it with the pH test when I changed cylinder. For me the time I go to pH tests exclusively begins at the 90 gallon, my tank is a 75 gallon. But I've been running CO2 for a good long while on my tanks and haven't lost fish from it in decades.