Myths or Truths in Fishkeeping

[Ben_RF]

I have always wondered if this is true or just a myth:. It is beneficial to keep snails (some say specifically mystery snails) in neocaridina shrimp tanks because the shrimp will eat the poop. Some even say they gain beneficial enzymes from the poop.

So myth? Or truth?

Also you fabolous folk feel free to post your own question of is it myth or truth on this thread.

[H.K.Luterman]

I've heard this too! Would love to hear if there's some truth to it.

[FrozenFins]

someone told me that snails will show a lack of calcium in the water before shrimp, not sure how true this is..

 

[darkG]

I am not at all sure, but I think enzymes are typically neither excreted nor aquired but synthesized as needed. If eaten, I think enzymes are digested as any protein. 

[MJV Aquatics]

In general snails are beneficial because as part of the cleanup crew they process and break down organic waste so bacteria more easily finishes the decomposition process. Now some find them unsightly and complain about their numbers. However, like beneficial biology, their numbers are controlled by the amount of food, in this case waste.

[Kirsten]

I'd be more inclined to put snails in a shrimp tank for the complementary feeding styles: nerites for algae on the glass, MTS for aerating the sand, shrimp for the fine particles and detailing. And, often being larger and heavier feeders than neo shrimp, snails have a larger biological footprint which, I think, helps keep your biofilter going strong.

[Anita]

1 hour ago, Ben_RF said:

Some even say they gain beneficial enzymes from the poop.

 

54 minutes ago, darkG said:

I am not at all sure, but I think enzymes are typically neither excreted nor aquired but synthesized as needed. If eaten, I think enzymes are digested as any protein. 

I would say the answer to the "beneficial enzymes" part of your question is not quite as simple as myth vs truth (says the animal science major 🐮 and former biology lab tech 🥼) . 

Enzymes and enzymatic activity certainly could be present in the mulm/waste. However, as pointed out by @darkG, most enzymes are synthesized internally by the organism. There are a few exceptions, of course. Stable enzymes exist, usually from microbes or plants, that when orally ingested help digest certain macronutrients. E.g., papain (from papaya) and bromelain (from pineapple) break down proteins into peptides/amino acids. Amylase and lactase (from Aspergillus sp. fungi, commercially sold as LACTAID®), break down carbohydrates into sugars and lactose into lactate, respectively.🥛

Enteric microbes living in the GI tract also produce various digestive enzymes and other substances via fermentation. E.g., Lactobacillus sp. bacteria also break down lactose. E.g., the reason cows, sheep, and goats can survive on hay and non-cereal plant matter is their digestive systems house huge populations of enteric microbes. These microbes secrete digestive enzymes that specifically work on certain, non-starch carbohydrates (aka, fiber).🦠 

Despite a handful of exceptions, most external enzymes—in microbes, plants, or other foods—that are ingested by shrimp (or snails) get digested into amino acids and other organic substances. So while they may provide energy, nutrients, and building blocks for internal enzyme synthesis, most of the ingested enzymes are broken down and thus rendered inert. 🔬

It is likely that any animal with a GI tract has enteric microbes living in their gut. Rather than enzymes, it seems more likely the shrimp benefit from ingesting enteric microbes that produce digestive enzymes and other beneficial substances after taking up residence in their guts.

There you go. Much more than you ever wanted to know about animal nutrition, enzymes, and microbes, haha!🤓

[Philip]

7 hours ago, Kirsten said:

I'd be more inclined to put snails in a shrimp tank for the complementary feeding styles: nerites for algae on the glass, MTS for aerating the sand, shrimp for the fine particles and detailing. And, often being larger and heavier feeders than neo shrimp, snails have a larger biological footprint which, I think, helps keep your biofilter going strong.

I'm an "anti-snail" guy but some of the people here have made me question my stance. Slightly mind you, but I can't believe I'm even considering it. 

[Kirsten]

4 hours ago, Philip said:

I'm an "anti-snail" guy but some of the people here have made me question my stance. Slightly mind you, but I can't believe I'm even considering it. 

I gotta say they're some of my favorite tank denizens. I first fell in love with nerites' beautiful shell patterning and was surprised by how active they were. Now I think mystery snails are my favorite for even more action and how big and goofy they are. Other snails are all useful, too, if even just to feed my pea puffer.

I'm also a gardener and it's amazing how much I love snails in my aquarium vs garden slugs which are the bane of my existence. I'm even considering getting some ducks as a way to keep them under control.

[Ben_RF]

So do shrimp eat the poop? 💩

[Philip]

I hear you. My backyard pond had ducks for years until the Geese gave them the boot. 

As far as snails go, I used to think the same way until they drove me nuts trying to keep them under control. It will take a lot more than a couple of sad eye on the end of stalks to sway me. 

P.S. I know the problem with out of control populations is my fault. I don't deny that. 

[Daniel]

8 minutes ago, Ben_RF said:

So do shrimp eat the poop? 💩

Who knows? Snails and shrimp seemingly will investigate almost anything but what I see them eat for sure is actual food like plant parts and fish food that falls to the bottom.

Unless there is a careful study or experiment one opinion is as good as another.

There might more important factors influencing overall health than who ate whose poop.

Put me in the pro-snails camp even though I am not sure exactly what they do.

[gardenman]

1 hour ago, Kirsten said:

I gotta say they're some of my favorite tank denizens. I first fell in love with nerites' beautiful shell patterning and was surprised by how active they were. Now I think mystery snails are my favorite for even more action and how big and goofy they are. Other snails are all useful, too, if even just to feed my pea puffer.

I'm also a gardener and it's amazing how much I love snails in my aquarium vs garden slugs which are the bane of my existence. I'm even considering getting some ducks as a way to keep them under control.

I saw a funny thing the other day where someone suggested slugs are just snails that lost the house in the divorce.

Slugs in the garden are something I've learned to live with. Slugs, much like snails in our tanks, prefer to feed on dead stuff over living stuff. So, when I pull weeds I leave them lying on the ground near the plants I want to protect and the slugs eat those dead weeds rather than my more desirable living plants. By and large that works for me. It makes the garden look a tick messier with dead/dying weeds lying around, but it feeds the slugs and preserves my more important plants. After a few days just the stems remain behind and the slugs will get around to eating those also. I'm not sure if I've trained the slugs to eat the weeds or if the slugs have trained me to leave them dead weeds to eat, but it works. The weeds get pulled, eaten, and the slug poop arguably helps feed the good plants. The pulled weeds also kind of serve like a mulch until eaten by the slugs. I've learned to live in harmony with the slugs and to put them to use. God knows I never run out of weeds to feed them. 

[Brandy]

2 hours ago, Ben_RF said:

So do shrimp eat the poop? 💩

Probably not directly. Probably the poop increases the bioload which improves the beneficial bacteria growth, which improves the growth of biofilm and shrimp DO eat that. If you were anti-snail likely you could get the same effect with shrimp safe fish...of which there are few. Snails are all shrimp safe though.

16 hours ago, James Black said:

someone told me that snails will show a lack of calcium in the water before shrimp, not sure how true this is..

 

In my experience this is true. I have seen snail shells pit before shrimp experience molting issues. I have also seen shrimp actually EAT at the pitted shells of live snails, to harvest the calcium. This is not ideal for the snail, but does give you a heads up to throw more calcium into the tank.

[Hobbit]

I imagine the snails “skim” the poop and scrape any tasty biofilm off of it, similar to what I see shrimp do (pick up a piece of poop, scrape a few bites off, and drop it again).

Though I *think* the ramshorn in my fry box is eating the fry poop because I only ever find snail poops in there. The fry are solely eating live bbs right now, so their poop comes out pink and probably only partially digested. They’re eating a LOT of bbs.

Isn’t this a lovely breakfast conversation? 😄

Edited March 1, 2021 by Hobbit

[Marc]

12 hours ago, Philip said:

I'm an "anti-snail" guy but some of the people here have made me question my stance. Slightly mind you, but I can't believe I'm even considering it. 

I used to be pro snail, the more the merrier, but I have caught smaller ones red-handed eating fish eggs and the mystery snails devastate my water sprite, especially the new growth. Now I definitely keep them in check.

[Lifeisgood]

After keeping and raising Mystery Snails I have discovered that they need to be specifically fed.  If you feed them blanched vegetables they will not eat live healthy plants.  It is amazing how much they need to eat. 

[Anita]

3 hours ago, Lifeisgood said:

It is amazing how much they need to eat. 

I know what you mean! You ate ALL the pellets already? What happened to all the mulberry leaves I left last night? 😲