Tetras gasping...Help?

[Brandy]

Ok, maybe I am just not destined to keep tetras of any kind. I am baffled. 

I picked up 15 rummy-nose tetras 4 days ago. I was worried, because I have had terrible luck in the past with neons and I think I am cursed now...but not worried enough to put them all in a brand new 10g QT tank, because I am an idiot. I took HOURS to acclimate them slowly and carefully before releasing them in the tank, they were casually swimming around relaxed in a more than 25:75 old:new water mix before I transferred  them.

They are in a planted new 29g that has never held fish before. I have 0 ammonia, nitrites, or nitrates other than the Easy Green I try to put in for the plants. I have a lot of plants, both floating and rooted, and a bit of algae, I can't keep nitrogen in the tank. Yesterday I noticed one not eating. This morning I found one dead. Now 2 more are not eating. Everyone else darts around in a feeding frenzy, these two huddle low in a corner breathing hard. 

I did a 30% water change, started dosing with Maracyn and ParaCleanse this morning, but I am preparing myself for a total loss. I see no other obvious symptoms. I don't have a clue what it could be. 7.4pH/30gh/40kh matches the water they came in pretty closely, tank is at 80 degrees, high-ish maybe but in range. I wanted to eventually keep Rams, so I was going to ratchet it up a little after they settled. There is an airstone in the tank and a spray bar, the canister filter has bio and mechanical filtration but not chemical.

I would love any advice or commiseration you care to offer. Rough day. 😔

[H.K.Luterman]

Not eating/gasping could be gill flukes. I'd just keep up with the rounds of maracyn and anti-parasite stuff and monitor. A heavy parasite load certainly can lead to death. 

I'm sorry you've had losses! It can be so frustrating trying to figure out what's wrong. 

[Brandy]

I gotta say the fact that it is a few at a time makes me think it is some illness rather than water quality. I have seen this before, but I had no idea what caused it then, and I ended up with every water testing method known to man because I was so sure I was killing them somehow. All of them agree that the water quality is fine. I have proven the tests work so I trust them more now. 

[MickS77]

Are you injecting CO2? I've had fish really stress out with that before 

[Brandy]

Not even passive yet. No CO2 at all. 

[Daniel]

I have had Rummy nose die en-masse after bringing them home from the store.

[Brandy]

Seems to be my luck lately too. Maybe they have COVID-19.

 

Sorry, that may be insensitive. Please pardon my gallows humor.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Brandy

[Daniel]

If I buy 6 Apistogramma it would be surprising if within a week some died. But if I buy 6 neon tetras or 6 rummy nose tetras, it would be a surprise if they all lived (that's a little bit of hyperbole, but I trying to make a point here). I think tetras experience a lot of stress moving through the supply chain to get to us.

That being said, once neons or rummy noses are well acclimated they are as solid as rock and transferring them won't cause a problem. But because they are often not well acclimated you have to be prepared for 'x' number to expire soon after purchase. For example, if I wanted to end up with 50 rummy nose tetras, my initial purchase would be for 75 or even 100. Once the initial mortality phase passed the remaining tetras would be robust and hardy for years.

Its not you, not your water, not likely a specific 'disease'. Its just the stress of being moved from the distributor to the wholesaler to the retailer to you.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Daniel
grammar

[MickS77]

12 minutes ago, Daniel said:

For example, if I wanted to end up with 50 rummy nose tetras, my initial purchase would be for 75 or even 100. Once the initial mortality phase passed the remaining tetras would robust and hardy for years.

I definitely agree with @Daniel. Having kept many Tetra species over the years I've seen how hard shipping and store stress is on them. I would try getting some from a different store or vendor. 

[Mr. Ed's Aquatics]

Only because I remember you live in Washington too, did you get them from Sierra? Sometimes the vendors the stores use have very different water than the customers of the stores they supply. And some species have a hard time adjusting to the wholesalers water / stores water / end customer water.

This leads to bad luck with certain stock. ie "don't buy tetras from Sierra, they always die". Maybe make the trip to the Coop? The ones on his sales floor have been medicated and quarantined, and will have a much better survival rate. 

[Brandy]

I do not think this is the store's fault. AT ALL. I agree with Daniel, this is just the breaks of it. I have considered having them shipped direct to me, in a massive number, just to shorten the chain by one step.

I was talking to my kid and we agreed we have never seen robustly healthy tetras in a store, anywhere, in 3 states, unless it was in a "display tank" they don't sell out of. Over the years I have bought them from mom and pop stores, and big box stores, and everything in between--a glutton for punishment I guess. My survival rate is usually 60%, but after that, you are right, they are rocks. I never tried treating them in the past, but lately it has been worse and so I am trying harder.

Mostly just increasing my cost per unit fish apparently. Lost 3 overnight, but the remaining fish are all active and eating. Fingers crossed. It is what it is. 

[Brandy]

So, I think I have passed the danger zone. No more losses, everyone eating well. I ended up with 11 out of 15 as a survival rate. Just going to plug keeping that quarantine trio on hand at ALL times! I will wonder forever if I would have saved any had I started treatment the MOMENT I saw a fish not eating.

I did use the full recommended dose of Paraclense and Maracyn, given the symptoms. 

[Brandy]

I am going to just link to this here for future reference. This is what I very much needed to hear, and I think what many people need to hear--that if you really have checked your water and are treating, there is an element of this that is beyond anyone's control. Guilt and feeling stupid are terrible things that make people want to quit. I don't think this video can be linked to enough.

Thanks @Cory for this, and thanks @Daniel and @MickS77 for saying it before the video dropped.

 

[ForestJenn]

I will say (plug for Aquarium Co-op here), we've purchased 22 black neon tetras and  5 cardinals over the last month and not a single loss.  I believe this is because of their quarantine process.  I'm sure they see losses in quarantine, but what they are doing with the fish before they get to the consumer works.   It also probably helps that our water is very similar. 

[Cory]

For sure we have losses in quarantine. Sometimes people will be like, you're killing fish! or how are you ok with not all of those rummynose making it? The answer is, we aren't ok and work to improve our success rate every day.  While it's a harsh thought, we consider ourselves professionals and would rather treat an illness and potentially lose the fish, than sell it and have the customer lose it.  Our goal is always 100% success rate with every fish we bring in, at a core level that is how we stay open. We do know that so far we don't know of anyone in the world that can achieve that so we strive to get closer to it every day.

[ForestJenn]

On 7/28/2020 at 10:10 AM, Cory said:

For sure we have losses in quarantine.

I hope you understood that I wasn't implying that you were falling down on the job. Of course you don't want to see fish die and I didn't mean to imply that you're complacent about it.   I'm just super appreciative that you're in a position to quarantine and treat before they reach the end consumer!   We've purchased almost 50 fish from Aquarium Co-op in the last month and haven't had a single loss.

I don't mean to gush.  I just can't convey how much of a life saver the hobby has been this summer.  

 🙂