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Corydora Difficulty


411fishkeeping
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Hello Everyone,

I have been in the hobby for many years on and off, and throughout all of those years I have never kept Corydoras. I have purchased 10 Cory Metae over the last week or so from two different stores, and I am having a rather hard time keeping them alive. The first batch of 7 that I purchased yielded three casualties, which I posted about on another thread in Diseases. After I purchased 6 more from another store last Friday (8/3), I have suffered 3 more casualties for still unknown reasons. I am very frustrated as these fish are precious to me, and I cannot identify what is going wrong. After messaging with a forum member over the weekend, I decided to move all the remaining corys to a tank with regular smooth gravel as they had been on eco complete. The move was also prompted by the fact that I noticed a few fish had damaged pectoral fins, which I attributed to the eco complete. Once they were moved to the new tank, three of them died all with the same injury on one of their pectoral fins. This is the only similarity I can identify relative to the cause of death for these fish. I did lower the temperature from 77 to 75 per a forum member's recommendation, but all other parameters are in range. Of course, I am simply at a loss. Is this sudden cory death syndrome, or is something going on that I am not aware of? Let's put our heads together and hopefully avoid any further losses! Thank you all. @Zenzo @Cory @Irene

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If we can, let's move this to disease. Maybe one of the admins can help us out! 

@411fishkeeping Can you please post all parameters including temp that you can test as well as a tank shot, filtration, air stones, etc. so we can get a good idea of the setup.

I absolutely love corys and I'm sorry you're having such difficulty with them right now.  We'll figure it out!

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On 8/3/2022 at 9:23 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

If we can, let's move this to disease. Maybe one of the admins can help us out! 

@411fishkeeping Can you please post all parameters including temp that you can test as well as a tank shot, filtration, air stones, etc. so we can get a good idea of the setup.

I absolutely love corys and I'm sorry you're having such difficulty with them right now.  We'll figure it out!

I am sorry if I posted this in the wrong place, I would be glad to move it if I can.

I have three 20 gallons in a stack on a stand. The cory's were in the bottom tank, now they are in the top. The test results for the top tank that the cory's are in now is on the right, the tank they came out of results are on the left. Both tanks have the exact same parameters because I make my water and change it from a 55 gallon drum. pH is around 6.6, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and about 40 ppm nitrate. Temp in top tank is around 75-76, and the temp in the bottom tank is about 77. GH is about 150 in the top and bottom tank, and KH is about 60 in the top and bottom tank according to Co-op test strips.

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I had to retest for the strip on the right/top tank because KH was off:

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Here is the retest for the KH in the top tank:

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Comparison before full nitrate development in retest:

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Nitrate for bottom tank:

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Top tank:

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Bottom tank that they moved from with eco complete:

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Sponge filter in addition to internal canister:

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Top tank that they are in now:

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Sponge filter #1 in top tank:

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Sponge filter #2 in bottom tank:

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On 8/3/2022 at 9:08 PM, 411fishkeeping said:

I am sorry if I posted this in the wrong place, I would be glad to move it if I can.

no worries, it happens. Hopefully one of the admin sees it!

 

 

On 8/3/2022 at 9:08 PM, 411fishkeeping said:

Top tank that they are in now:

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Sponge filter #1 in top tank:

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Sponge filter #2 in bottom tank:

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The tank aesthetically looks awesome. It has everything they need for the most part!  I think aeration is fine, but another airstone wouldn't hurt at all.  Not required, but it wouldn't hurt.  I tent to run heavy with those in general, so this might just be my preference!

The only real issue I see is that corys might have some trouble eating.  It's difficult to be sure, but something to keep an eye on is going to be how deep the food falls in those rocks and how much they struggle to get that food that does fall.  Corydoras use their nose and burrow to dig for food, that's their natural way of trying to find things.  The gravel has decent size gaps and food might easily fall down away from their reach.  If they are eating and things are going great, no worries at all. 

Testing, everything seems ok apart from PH.  We see it's low on the scale, but not really sure how low that really is. PH listed on planet catfish is ~7 but gives a range of 6.5-7.5.  It also mentions that these ones might prefer water at the 70-74 range in general.

I am not saying this is what happened, or that this fixes the issue, but let's just hypothesize about the issue you're having.
A.  Some of them were just in general stressed before they got to you
B.  Some of them were in your care and fine for a little bit
C.  They may/may not have had issues with the substrate and had wounds, which caused stress
D.  They may or may not have had issues eating, in both tanks
E.  Temp, PH, KH crashes (leading to PH swings) could emphasize the stress and cause more stress to the fish.

Essentially, we don't want to chase parameters or try to force anything, but let's try to narrow some of these things from being a cause for concern.

Starting with food, do you recall any specific issues with how they were interacting with the substrate?

Is it possible to drop nitrates down to 10 or below?
 

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On 8/3/2022 at 11:18 PM, anitstuk said:

@411fishkeepingwere these the same Corys that you purchased before? I was getting hopeful that these Corys were going to live a good long life. If all of these Corys die, maybe visit your local fish club. They tend to have better quality fish than your LFS.

Hello, good to hear from you again. After the first three that died from my original batch of 7, I got 6 more from another store, and another 3 have died since. Hopefully now that I have posted all my parameters and tank pictures someone can spot what I am missing! I am that for them more than anything.

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On 8/3/2022 at 7:23 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

If we can, let's move this to disease. Maybe one of the admins can help us out! 

@411fishkeeping Can you please post all parameters including temp that you can test as well as a tank shot, filtration, air stones, etc. so we can get a good idea of the setup.

I absolutely love corys and I'm sorry you're having such difficulty with them right now.  We'll figure it out!

Moved.

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On 8/3/2022 at 11:20 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

no worries, it happens. Hopefully one of the admin sees it!

 

 

The tank aesthetically looks awesome. It has everything they need for the most part!  I think aeration is fine, but another airstone wouldn't hurt at all.  Not required, but it wouldn't hurt.  I tent to run heavy with those in general, so this might just be my preference!

The only real issue I see is that corys might have some trouble eating.  It's difficult to be sure, but something to keep an eye on is going to be how deep the food falls in those rocks and how much they struggle to get that food that does fall.  Corydoras use their nose and burrow to dig for food, that's their natural way of trying to find things.  The gravel has decent size gaps and food might easily fall down away from their reach.  If they are eating and things are going great, no worries at all. 

Testing, everything seems ok apart from PH.  We see it's low on the scale, but not really sure how low that really is. PH listed on planet catfish is ~7 but gives a range of 6.5-7.5.  It also mentions that these ones might prefer water at the 70-74 range in general.

I am not saying this is what happened, or that this fixes the issue, but let's just hypothesize about the issue you're having.
A.  Some of them were just in general stressed before they got to you
B.  Some of them were in your care and fine for a little bit
C.  They may/may not have had issues with the substrate and had wounds, which caused stress
D.  They may or may not have had issues eating, in both tanks
E.  Temp, PH, KH crashes (leading to PH swings) could emphasize the stress and cause more stress to the fish.

Essentially, we don't want to chase parameters or try to force anything, but let's try to narrow some of these things from being a cause for concern.

Starting with food, do you recall any specific issues with how they were interacting with the substrate?

Is it possible to drop nitrates down to 10 or below?
 

In regards to food, I placed frozen blood worms on the bottom of the tank with tweezers and observed them eating with no issues in both tanks. They have basically been hand fed blood worms since I got them. They don't tend to go after the blood worms per say, but if the cory's swim over the blood worms they will stop and gobble them up. Now that they are in the top tank, I try to put the blood worms on the catappa leaves just to make sure it's easy for them. There is no doubt that stress has played a key roll in this, and I have been testing pH all week via API. I have not noticed any fluctuation, but it's always a possibility. I can lower temp and nitrate for sure. I do 50% usually, so I can change more when I change water next. I dosed with easy green on Monday, and have been feeding heavier this week, so nitrates are rising faster than normal. You can see my java fern "garden" in the top tank where I grow out plant-lets.

On 8/3/2022 at 11:22 PM, anitstuk said:

Did you get the new Corys from the same store that you got the Original ones from?

I got them from a different store this time.

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On 8/3/2022 at 11:36 PM, anitstuk said:

Did the Corys look healthy when you got them? Were they swimming around, eating, scavenging or just lethargic?

They all looked great, so that's why it's a mystery to me. That being said, it's also true that I did not closely inspect each one because I trust the second store I got them from.

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On 8/3/2022 at 9:33 PM, 411fishkeeping said:

I do 50% usually, so I can change more when I change water next.

Limit yourself to 50% WCs as a max at all times. The logic for this is so parameters don't swing excessively.  Nitrates might, but you also don't want to have major shifts in everything else.  50% is about the max most everyone sticks to with 30% being the typical.

 

 

On 8/3/2022 at 9:33 PM, 411fishkeeping said:

There is no doubt that stress has played a key roll in this, and I have been testing pH all week via API. I have not noticed any fluctuation, but it's always a possibility. I can lower temp and nitrate for sure.

Let's start there.  Monitor PH for ~2-4 weeks and see how things change every 5-7 days.  Load will change things. As bioload increases, that takes up the available KH, which reduces PH.  Let's try to lower nitrates, keep things monitored and go from there.

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I’m going to keep this simple.don’t chase all these parameters. How did to you put the fish in the tank? Can you get the Nitrates down? Other than that if you are worried about food get some that sinks. Small bug bites or hikari sinking wafers, they Have a clown fish on the package. Don’t worry so much what the what the ph, kh,GH are as long as they stay the same. Corys can live in almost any water as long as the nitrates nitrates in ammonia are low. Next test the water in the bag that came from the LFS or just ask them to test it. If it’s not close get a bucket, I use a gallon of the cheap Walmart ice cream. I put the fish in that and slowing add water from the tank if there are different water parameters. Corys don’t like big change. They are in tank with ph of 8 and tanks of ph of 6, but if you move one of those fish to the other tank it will probably die. 

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I agree with dont chase numbers, cory are pretty adaptable to water conditions. I think 70-72 degrees would be a good range for these cory's, 75 degrees and up I think is hard on them...any chance your heater is sticking on and spiking the temp ??? Also a good point is acclamation, I like to use a slow drip into the ice cream bucket method, but since yours are already in their tank you will have to work from there. So I would suggest lower temp. and weekly if not bi-weekly water changes. Cant really tell from your pictures if the barbells are missing or just laying very flat. Missing barbells can indicate a  water condition or sharp edge substrate but either way IF there missing look for infection. Hope this helps some,

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When I got sudden deaths from my newly purchased pygmy corys, I talked to the local fish store I purchased them from and asked them (1) how long they've had the corys, (2) what are the store's water parameters, and (3) what was the store feeding the corys. Turns out the store and I had very different pH levels and that was the cause of death.

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On 8/4/2022 at 5:32 AM, Brandon p said:

Other than that if you are worried about food get some that sinks. Small bug bites or hikari sinking wafers, they Have a clown fish on the package.

I don't think food itself was the concern, but access to the food once it sinks to the substrate.  Tank 1, they might've been hesitant to eat because of the sharp edges.  Tank 2, it has big chunky gravel, it's rocks really, and easy for the food to hide and rot away.  Corys will dig for this, could injure themselves trying to, or you're just left with rotting food. Something like a feeding dish might be a good way to handle it or just something easier for them to interact with.

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I would not worry about there being rotten food every. They are corys and are going to dig in the rocks regardless. I have gravel in my 75g and have corys that are 8 years old and never had any issue with barbells or any thing. I have always (25 years) had corys on gravel and never had a issue with rotting food. That has more to do with over feeding. If you are worried about if the wafers aren’t going to get in the rocks. 

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